• Merkel calls out 'naked racism' in Charlottesville as 'repulsive'
    16 replies, posted
[url]http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/346442-merkel-calls-out-naked-racism-in-charlottesville-as-repulsive[/url] [quote]A spokesman for German Chancellor Angela Merkel described the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va., over the weekend as “evil” and “disgusting,” according to report by Agence France Press. Merkel spokesman Steffen Seibert said Merkel was shocked by the rally that left one woman dead and dozens injured after a white supremacist rally to protest the removal of a Confederate statue turned violent. "The scenes at the right-wing extremist march were absolutely repulsive — naked racism, anti-Semitism and hate in their most evil form were on display," Siebert said. "Such images and chants are disgusting wherever they may be and they are diametrically opposed to the political goals of the chancellor and the entire German government,” he added.[/quote]
The Germans not mincing words about talking shit about nazis? I'm totally surprised and really, totally did not see this coming!
It's almost like they have had to deal with Nazis in the past.
Can't say I disagree with her. [editline]14th August 2017[/editline] It's rare that I hear Merkel say anything remotely unreasonable.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;52572532]Can't say I disagree with her. [editline]14th August 2017[/editline] It's rare that I hear Merkel say anything remotely unreasonable.[/QUOTE] Almost as if that's how world leaders are supposed to be.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;52572532]Can't say I disagree with her. [editline]14th August 2017[/editline] It's rare that I hear Merkel say anything remotely unreasonable.[/QUOTE] Merkel is political stability personified in a way (even by German standards). [I]Mostly[/I] that's for the better, but there are some cases where she's hindering progress.
I'm normally a proponent for reasonable, civil solutions to problems but the way nazi ideology is structured makes it impossible to debate against, as any attempts to argue points get dismissed instantly due to nazis not respecting anything but power, and seeing themselves as the most powerful due to the beliefs they hold. You can denounce and hiss at them all they want and they'll keep doing their evil fuckin work until they drop; the best way to deal with that is to facilitate the drop; when you can't belittle with words, sometimes the only fix is to belittle into a pine box. [editline]14th August 2017[/editline] scratch that last part, these fuckers don't deserve funerals
[QUOTE=Rolond Returns;52573537]I'm normally a proponent for reasonable, civil solutions to problems but the way nazi ideology is structured makes it impossible to debate against, as any attempts to argue points get dismissed instantly due to nazis not respecting anything but power, and seeing themselves as the most powerful due to the beliefs they hold. You can denounce and hiss at them all they want and they'll keep doing their evil fuckin work until they drop; the best way to deal with that is to facilitate the drop; when you can't belittle with words, sometimes the only fix is to belittle into a pine box. [editline]14th August 2017[/editline] scratch that last part, these fuckers don't deserve funerals[/QUOTE] I dont think killing people for their beliefs is a precedent worth making, even for this.
[QUOTE=spazthemax;52575999]I dont think killing people for their beliefs is a precedent worth making, even for this.[/QUOTE] Nazism and antisemitism is not a belief. Is a goddamn crime.
[quote]I dont think killing people for their beliefs is a precedent worth making, even for this.[/quote] My belief is finding every single person in your life that you don't hate and make them die slowly of cancer, alzheimer's, and what-have-you so long as their last name doesn't end with 'z'. That's it. That's my whole belief: that I should destroy your life and the lives of those that surround you because my last name ends with the letter 'z' and yours doesn't. How am I any different from a terrorist? How am I any different from a serial killer? What I have is not a belief - no matter how much I yell and scream about how it is a belief - it's an intent to commit heinous crimes. Let's say there are others who share my belief. All 3,000 of us think we should slowly kill in horrible ways everyone that you know and don't hate because their last name doesn't end with 'z'. Do we suddenly then deserve the ability to plot out exactly how to do what we want? At what point is it OK to stop us? When it's too late and we've already poisoned the well beyond repair? When we've grown from 3,000 to 300,000? When we've taken over the Government? At what point are you more comfortable with trampling on our right to slaughter people than you are in allowing us to continue our dark works? Or will you allow us to plan freely and for as long as we like, gathering as much power to back our will as we can, and so on and so forth until we are unstoppable and [I]then[/I] enact our plan? That's the precedent you're setting: where you draw the line.
[QUOTE=MarcusSmith;52576240]Nazism and antisemitism is not a belief. Is a goddamn crime.[/QUOTE] Let's be reasonable though, thought crimes aren't real crimes, it's when you preach or act on your antisemitic views you become a criminal.
[quote]Let's be reasonable though, thought crimes aren't real crimes, it's when you preach or act on your antisemitic views you become a criminal.[/quote] If there was a group of 100,000 people who were all bent on creating and deploying a nuclear weapon in the United States of sufficient yield to devastate it and who have in the past caused massive detonations that caused huge losses of life I feel that's already gotten to the point that it's too close for comfort to allow them to continue to operate openly. A thought crime isn't really a thought crime when thousands attend rallies for said 'thought crime', gather political capital to more readily execute said thought crime, and have - in the past - [I]succeeded[/I] in turning their 'thought crime' into heinous, world-shattering, state-devastating crime. Let's be plain here: We're talking about a criminal conspiracy to commit multiple genocides and install a fascist state from a group that has committed genocide and has installed a fascist state in the past. There are very few groups that exist in the world, despite how ridiculously violent some groups are, that can hurdle such a high bar.
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52576337]If there was a group of 100,000 people who were all bent on creating and deploying a nuclear weapon in the United States of sufficient yield to devastate it and who have in the past caused massive detonations that caused huge losses of life I feel that's already gotten to the point that it's too close for comfort to allow them to continue to operate openly. A thought crime isn't really a thought crime when thousands attend rallies for said 'thought crime', gather political capital to more readily execute said thought crime, and have - in the past - [I]succeeded[/I] in turning their 'thought crime' into heinous, world-shattering, state-devastating crime. Let's be plain here: We're talking about a criminal conspiracy to commit multiple genocides and install a fascist state from a group that has committed genocide and has installed a fascist state in the past. There are very few groups that exist in the world, despite how ridiculously violent some groups are, that can hurdle such a high bar.[/QUOTE] Don't get me wrong, I agree with everything you just said - I just want to point out that what these people are doing wrong isn't having horrible opinions, it's what they are shouting when they are protesting, the ideas their organizations stand for and the violence they commit based on it. [editline]15th August 2017[/editline] If you've seen my occassional post in the past about it, I'm all for cracking down on hate crimes such as hate speech in it's various verbal and non-verbal forms but I think that for the better of society it's important to make a distinction between what someone thinks and what someone says or does.
But all they are shouting is their horrible "opinions". Their "opinions" are the actions they wish to engage. Their 'opinion' is to commit mass violence and they came armed, brought secret weapon caches, and spread their locations to their supporters. Their 'opinion' was to come armed with coke cans filled with concrete and bottles filled with acids and piss as well as rifles, pistols, and riot shields. Their 'opinion' was to arrive in tactical gear, looking for a fight, and trying to incite one with as many racial slurs, beatings, and trespasses as they could manage. My contention is that people think that what they have are just 'opinions'. They don't have 'opinions' - they have the intent to commit mass violence, the means to commit mass violence, and are merely searching for a motive to commit mass violence. There is a point where declaring something to 'be an opinion' doesn't make it an opinion. What the nazis preach and yell are not opinions - they are [I]threats[/I] that are backed by guns, ideology, and enthusiasm for violence. I feel threats of mass, almost indiscriminate, violence should be responded to just as if they came out of any terrorist organization because they are implicitly terroristic actions. This is well beyond what I feel comfortable calling a 'hate group' or 'hate crimes'. Please tell me why they are not 'the American ISIS/Al-Qaeda', disregarding the religious aspect. Or more specifically: At what point does a 'hate group' become a terrorist organization?
I don't think I'm getting my point across right, maybe this just isn't the context in which to argue what I'm arguing, I agree with you, I just think that what we're talking about here is more than opinions, they're actual efforts. I'm not being apologetic if that's what it sounds like, I just think the post I quoted originally put it in a bit of an ungraceful way.
It stops being an opinion when you march with weapons bared. You can think what you like, but in a society of laws you can't do whatever the fuck you like. Your freedoms are bound by public safety.
I kind of want to move to Germany to get away from the Nazis. :why:
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