UK: Theresa May talks about Brexit, trade & immigration (kind of) for first talk of 2017 - Polidicks

[URL="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-brexit-coming-weeks-sky-interview-sophie-ridge-article-50-plan-latest-a7515656.html"]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-brexit-coming-weeks-sky-interview-sophie-ridge-article-50-plan-latest-a7515656.html[/URL] [URL="https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/08/uks-brexit-approach-is-not-muddled-at-all-says-theresa-may"]https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/08/uks-brexit-approach-is-not-muddled-at-all-says-theresa-may[/URL] [QUOTE]The plan for Brexit will be set out in the coming weeks, Theresa May has said. The Prime Minister told Sky News the public will be informed of how the Government intends to leave the European Union, but sidestepped questions on whether curbs on immigration would mean leaving the single market. "[B]Often people talk in terms as if somehow we're leaving the EU but we want to keep bits of membership of the EU. We're leaving, we're coming out,[/B]" said Ms May. "I will be setting out some more details in the coming weeks as we look ahead to triggering Article 50." The Prime Minister insisted she will be able to secure control over immigration to the UK as well as favourable trading terms with the European Union during Brexit negotiations. In her first broadcast of 2017, Ms May reiterated her belief that the issue of trade versus immigration control is not “binary”. She said: “So the question is what is the right relationship for the UK to have with the European Union when we are outside." The potential shape of the UK's Brexit deal has dominated the domestic political landscape since the UK voted to the leave the European Union on 23 June last year. Critics believe it will be difficult, if not impossible, for the Government to secure access to the single market while also demanding full control of the UK's borders. [/QUOTE] Theresa May's plan is literally to have our cake and eat it when will the cake analogies end

[QUOTE]"Often people talk in terms as if somehow we're leaving the EU but we want to keep bits of membership of the EU. We're leaving, we're coming out."[/QUOTE] I think this is what Theresa May imagines Brexit is like: [video=youtube;F-mjl63e0ms]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-mjl63e0ms[/video] But no Theresa, you are leaving the EU. At-least, by what you've said before. I'm fucking disgusted by it, but it'd be really, really weird if you decided not to. Just don't fuck it up for us, eh?

I hope the UK doesn't get too fucked by these negotiations

Having their cake and eating it too is already kinda what the UK was doing, being exempt from so many EU laws and whatnot. I'd like to say go full brexit and show us the results of right-wing populism. But I'm pretty certain they're going to have half measures based on what she's saying where not much actually changes except the UK gaining less influence in the rules they do have to abide by.

Negotiations have to offer something for both sides, well academics at Cambridge seem to predict the Brexit is not the clusterfuck that was projected by the treasury: [url]http://newsexplored.co.uk/uk/project-fear-was-a-lie-net-migration-will-halve-and-wages-increase-after-brexit/[/url] [url]http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/750475/Lord-Marland-takes-aim-Brexit-trade-doom-mongering[/url] I expect the usual vitriol here but what has happened to all the proper gloom and doom prediction from experts instead of just gloom and doom rhetoric?

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51640302]Negotiations have to offer something for both sides, well academics at Cambridge seem to predict the Brexit is not the clusterfuck that was projected by the treasury: [url]http://newsexplored.co.uk/uk/project-fear-was-a-lie-net-migration-will-halve-and-wages-increase-after-brexit/[/url] [url]http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/750475/Lord-Marland-takes-aim-Brexit-trade-doom-mongering[/url] I expect the usual vitriol here but what has happened to all the proper gloom and doom prediction from experts instead of just gloom and doom rhetoric?[/QUOTE] By posting two garbage sources like that and omitting the actual Cambridge report, which I bet my left nut has had its content twisted and taken out of context, what do you expect

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51640302]Negotiations have to offer something for both sides, well academics at Cambridge seem to predict the Brexit is not the clusterfuck that was projected by the treasury: [url]http://newsexplored.co.uk/uk/project-fear-was-a-lie-net-migration-will-halve-and-wages-increase-after-brexit/[/url] [url]http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/750475/Lord-Marland-takes-aim-Brexit-trade-doom-mongering[/url] I expect the usual vitriol here but what has happened to all the proper gloom and doom prediction from experts instead of just gloom and doom rhetoric?[/QUOTE] really, the sunday express [I]again[/I] i mean if anyone is going to be pushing a narrative, it's them

And express is shit source too.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51640302]I expect the usual vitriol here but what has happened to all the proper gloom and doom prediction from experts instead of just gloom and doom rhetoric?[/QUOTE] Nothing, they just aren't featured in the type of sources you read. [img]https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/http%3A%2F%2Fcom.ft.imagepublish.prod.s3.amazonaws.com%2F040cf890-d11b-11e6-9341-7393bb2e1b51?source=next&fit=scale-down&width=600[/img] [url]https://www.ft.com/content/c2b0359e-d0dc-11e6-b06b-680c49b4b4c0[/url]

As much as you diss the sources, you can't dispute the content. The silly pie chart comes from a reputable source but says very little, it is opinion. You're welcome to post any so called decent unbiased sources that are to the contrary.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51640730]As much as you diss the sources, you can't dispute the content. The silly pie chart comes from a reputable source but says very little, it is opinion. You're welcome to post any so called decent unbiased sources that are to the contrary.[/QUOTE] I'm amazed there are still people in my country who think Brexit is a good idea.

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqDXti3cwig[/media]

[QUOTE=Shadow801;51640770]I'm amazed there are still people in my country who think Brexit is a good idea.[/QUOTE] Careful, if you show even the vaguest hint of thinking brexit is bad you'll get shouted down as a sore loser. haha #takebackourborders #fucktheEU right guys haha

The fact that we still don't no the details months after the vote is fucking nonsense. [video=youtube;b-ZO2pQNtog]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-ZO2pQNtog[/video]

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51640730]As much as you diss the sources, you can't dispute the content. The silly pie chart comes from a reputable source but says very little, it is opinion. [B]You're welcome to post any so called decent unbiased sources[/B] that are to the contrary.[/QUOTE] this is so contrary you post an article from the [I]Express[/I], which is basically the Daily Mail and say "oh no guys, you gotta look past the bias and shitty journalism and just read!" then when someone posts an article from the BBC you have the gall to say "uhm i'm not reading that, they've got a bias" this happens every single time, without fail

[QUOTE=Lambeth;51641001]The fact that we still don't no the details months after the vote is fucking nonsense. [video=youtube;b-ZO2pQNtog]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-ZO2pQNtog[/video][/QUOTE] Nonsense? It's terrifying. It still hasn't been made clear what the potential effects are for Northern Ireland besides the obvious economic ones. I thought Cameron was bad, but May is absolutely incompetent - at-least, when it comes to Irish-British relations, which to give credit to Cameron, [I]did[/I] improve under his tenure.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51640730]As much as you diss the sources, you can't dispute the content. The silly pie chart comes from a reputable source but says very little, it is opinion. You're welcome to post any so called decent unbiased sources that are to the contrary.[/QUOTE] If you want to be taken seriously, don't post shit-tier tabloids as a source. Take a deep breath and think why people might react badly to low-brow headlines like "Project Fear was a lie! Net migration will HALVE and wages INCREASE after BREXIT". This saying, taking one study as a factual proof of future (!?) because it happens to align with their views. That's a failure in impartial reporting. To get a realistic view on likely effects of Brexit, one can't use heavily-slanted article cherry-picking findings that suit the author without any reservations. If you can discount BBC's, CNN's, what have you, opinions for supposed bias, why not these? Actually, flood of headlines like these since forever have made me question the sanity of people claiming that "the media" is biased against brexit. What are these tabloids if not media? Because there doesn't seem to be any kind of shortage from media-except-not-the-media biased in favor of it. Go figure. So I'll show you what to do to not get the "usual vitriol": because the actual study is available online, you link it thusly: [url]http://www.cbr.cam.ac.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/centre-for-business-research/downloads/working-papers/wp483revised.pdf[/url] This means that I can actually find out what IN the study, and my brief findings are thus: the tabloid articles are BS. The study anticipates that Treasury Department's predictions are overly pessimistic - but - UK is still as a whole worse off with Brexit than Bremain. UK will still take a hit in foreign investment, exchange rates and consumer prices. What positive happens is result of lowered interest rates compared to Bremain, which can actually go every way in reality. Touted drop in migration is all from EU countries, while migration from outside EU stays the same. Researchers themselves admit the models they built are [B]ultimately arbitrary[/B] made for primary purpose of testing Treasury's prediction model's verity. So citing this prediction as "proof" how things will go is, at best, questionable. That's why people laugh at your sources. [QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51640730]The silly pie chart comes from a reputable source but says very little, it is opinion.[/QUOTE] As you said, "you can't dispute the content". You asked what happened to the doom and gloom prediction from experts. It's right there in the FT article, [B]as summarized[/B] by the graph. What the hell do you want? [QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51640730]You're welcome to post any so called decent unbiased sources that are to the contrary.[/QUOTE] If you actually check the study above, it's not actually in favor of brexit even if tabloids try to push it as such.

The EU is in a tough position, if it goes light on the UK, it means others can easily leave, but if it goes hard on the UK it means it doesn't like the will of the people. Tough spot.

[QUOTE=Boilrig;51643686]But if it goes hard on the UK it means it doesn't like the will of the people.[/QUOTE] What? If "the will of the people" is to leave the EU and the EU gives them just that, how is it not following "the will of the people"?

[QUOTE=Boilrig;51643686]The EU is in a tough position, if it goes light on the UK, it means others can easily leave, but if it goes hard on the UK it means it doesn't like the will of the people. Tough spot.[/QUOTE] the people chose based on lies and misinformation and should deserve the shit they have coming for not looking into it

[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;51644616]the people chose based on lies and misinformation and should deserve the shit they have coming for not looking into it[/QUOTE] In the ideal world this would be true but you expect too much from people. We're pretty fucking stupid truth be told. We're biologically unprepared for rationally dealing with things. Someone tells a lie which evokes fear and anger the feeling is already created and the narrative set. You can come along later with facts but people have already made their minds up and the topic has moved on to the next outrageous claim they're making. Furthermore by saying they deserve it is only half the story. The rest of the UK will be dragged down. If a child makes a mistake you don't ruin their and their friends lives, you accept that they didn't know better and do your best to right the mistake- in this case not brexiting.

[QUOTE=_Axel;51644504]What? If "the will of the people" is to leave the EU and the EU gives them just that, how is it not following "the will of the people"?[/QUOTE] I [I]think[/I] he might be talking about the people of other EU states? I can't be sure, his word is very confusing. A harsh Brexit could cause problems for Ireland, so it's not really in our interest.

[QUOTE=Boilrig;51643686]The EU is in a tough position, if it goes light on the UK, it means others can easily leave, but if it goes hard on the UK it means it doesn't like the will of the people. Tough spot.[/QUOTE] The EU is under no obligation to please the "will of the people" in the UK, especially when the will of those people (BARELY over half the votes btw) were to fuck you over for retarded reasons and lies fed to them by lying twats. We fucked up and must face the consequences, even if half of us didn't want this.

And theeeere goes the value of the Pound yet again.

[QUOTE=Vlevs;51641141] As you said, "you can't dispute the content". You asked what happened to the doom and gloom prediction from experts. It's right there in the FT article, [B]as summarized[/B] by the graph. What the hell do you want? [/QUOTE] The FT article is a poll conducted asking people how they feel, it's not factual. One minute the public are stupid because they voted for Brexit and disagreed with your narrative the next minute they are to be trusted because they agree with your narrative? You can't have it both ways. [editline]9th January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;51645121] We fucked up and must face the consequences, even if half of us didn't want this.[/QUOTE] There is no such thing as a smaller half. That is how voting in a referendum works, the majority wins.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51645269]There is no such thing as a smaller half. That is how voting in a referendum works, the majority wins.[/QUOTE] its a very slim majority that essentially split the country and has left everybody in an awkward position of trying to figure out what not what the 51% or the 49% wants, but what the country as a whole actually wants to come out of brexit now that its a fact for instance, what sort of brexit should we look for?

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51645269]The FT article is a poll conducted asking people how they feel, it's not factual. One minute the public are stupid because they voted for Brexit and disagreed with your narrative the next minute they are to be trusted because they agree with your narrative? You can't have it both ways. [editline]9th January 2017[/editline] There is no such thing as a smaller half. That is how voting in a referendum works, the majority wins.[/QUOTE] "Narrative", lol. Facts vs feels all day everyday. Not that you're wrong - the British public [i]felt[/i] how bad of an idea Brexit was... post factum. Except wow, this time the flip of the coin landed on the right side. Give me a break - anyone with a quarter of a functioning brain can see leaving the EU is retarded (literally will retard any positive action happening in the UK). And what are you on about - most referendums need a clear majority to pass. 50% is a stupid cut off, and we can see the stupid result.

brexit means brexit [editline]9th January 2017[/editline] sorry, i meant breakfast

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51645269]The FT article is a poll conducted asking people how they feel, it's not factual. One minute the public are stupid because they voted for Brexit and disagreed with your narrative the next minute they are to be trusted because they agree with your narrative? You can't have it both ways.[/QUOTE] The article seems to have been paywalled so that even the headline is no longer accessible. The headline was "Most economists still pessimistic about effects of Brexit". So for context: it was a survey of 120 economists, and the article included their predictions. It was not a public poll. The people interviewed were all professionals and highly informed in the developing economic impact of Brexit. The poll aggregated their predictions for the current direction of Brexit. [B]Edit:[/B] I can access it through Google by searching the title. The article is too long to paste here in entirety, so few bits should convey the idea. [quote] [B]Most economists still pessimistic about effects of Brexit[/B] FT annual survey finds majority unreassured by resilience of UK economy since the vote The majority of economists are just as pessimistic about Brexit’s likely effect on Britain’s longer-term economic prospects as they were a year ago and have not been reassured by the resilience of the UK economy after the referendum or the plans of Theresa May’s government. A year ago, three quarters of economists surveyed in the annual FT poll thought Brexit would harm Britain’s medium term economic prospects, nine times more than those who thought it would improve the outlook. Almost half of the 120 economists who answered the Brexit question at the end of 2016 had not changed their opinion, 40 per cent had become more pessimistic, while only 13 per cent were now more optimistic. Economists do not generally feel they were proved wrong by events following the vote even though only a little over a third last year said a vote to leave the EU would have little impact on the economy in 2016. Diane Coyle, professor of economics at Manchester University, predicts worse trading relationships with the EU will hurt goods exporters, those in long supply chains and the education, finance and professional services sectors. “The Brexit vote will tear a hole in the fabric of the economy,” she said. Sarah Hewin, chief European economist at Standard Chartered, said the noises from government had made her more worried about the long term than a year ago because ministers, “very quickly ruled out joining the European Economic Area (EEA), the one Brexit option that could have delivered the least bad economic outcome”. A former head of the government economic service, Vicky Pryce, now chief economic adviser to the Centre for Economics and Business Research, worried that Britain’s negotiating position with the EU was feeble. “Instead of taking control, we seem to be entirely dependent on what other countries or regions may be prepared to negotiate with us. The UK is in reality the supplicant,” she said. A large number of economists recognised that their short-term forecasts for Brexit had been too pessimistic, but most thought this had little bearing on the longer-term implications for leaving the EU. John Gieve, the chairman of Nesta and former deputy governor of the Bank of England, said “the short term reaction has been smaller than I expected but this is only the beginning of the story”. [/quote] [quote] David Blanchflower, Bruce V. Rauner professor, Dartmouth College More pessimistic than 12 months ago I am more pessimistic despite the most recent data being better than many including me expected. My main concern is that the government seem to have no plan for Brexit and very little economic credibility. The attempt to undermine Carney was a classic example where the markets prevented them from doing or saying stupid stuff. Seems to me they have little economic credibility. When the next negative shock comes along, which it surely must as by 2017 it will be nine years since the last one, they seem unprepared.[/quote]