• At least 450 killed, over 719 injured in crush at Hajj pilgrimage
    48 replies, posted
[QUOTE]At least 453 pilgrims have been killed in a crush at Mina, outside the Muslim holy city of Mecca, where some two million people are performing the annual Hajj pilgrimage, Saudi Arabia's civil defence authority said. The crush, in which at least 719 others were injured, took place on Street 204 of the camp city at Mina, a few kilometres east of Mecca, where pilgrims stay for several days during the climax of the Hajj. Thursday is also Eid al-Adha, when Muslims slaughter a sheep. It has traditionally been the most dangerous day of Hajj because vast numbers of pilgrims attempt to perform rituals at the same time in a single location. Street 204 is one of the two main arteries leading through the camp at Mina to Jamarat, where pilgrims ritually stone the devil by hurling pebbles at three large pillars. Photographs published on the civil defence Twitter feed showed pilgrims lying on stretchers while emergency workers in high-visibility jackets lifted them into an ambulance. It said more than 220 ambulances and 4,000 rescue workers had been sent to the stampede's location to help the wounded. Saudi-owned Al-Arabiya television channel showed a convoy of ambulances driving through the Mina camp. "Work is underway to separate large groups of people and direct pilgrims to alternative rotes," the Saudi Civil Defence said on its Twitter account. Reuters reporters in another part of Mina said they could hear police and ambulance sirens, but that roads leading to the site of the disaster had been blocked to prevent a further crowds developing.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-24/pilgrims-killed-in-crush-at-hajj-pilgrimage/6803178[/url] Edit: Death toll now at 717, and 850 injured [url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/sep/24/hajj-crush-kills-scores-near-mecca-live-coverage[/url]
This happens every year
The whole thing is beyond stupid. And kind of barbaric.
Could someone explain what a crush is? I've never heard the word be used like that.
[QUOTE=Tinter;48751485]Could someone explain what a crush is? I've never heard the word be used like that.[/QUOTE] Lots of people are in a small, dense area. People push each other or try to move in certain directions and usually unfortunate people get pinned against walls (or get stuck in a particularly close group) and get pushed so hard that they are unable to breath or they get crushed to death.
Its gods will
[url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/sep/24/hajj-crush-kills-scores-near-mecca-live-coverage[/url] Death toll risen to 717, and 850 injured
[QUOTE=Tinter;48751485]Could someone explain what a crush is? I've never heard the word be used like that.[/QUOTE] It's like when you are young and you fancy a girl in your class or one of your older sisters mates.
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;48751562]It's like when you are young and you fancy a girl in your class or one of your older sisters mates.[/QUOTE] In that situation you figuratively can't breathe tho
Just to put it into perspective, the crane that fell down a few weeks ago "only" killed around 67 people.
I noticed now that the article calls it a stampede as well. English isn't my main language but calling it a crush seems odd to me.
[QUOTE=Tinter;48751578]I noticed now that the article calls it a stampede as well. English isn't my main language but calling it a crush seems odd to me.[/QUOTE] At least from what i'v seen, stampede usually involved panic (running from a fire for example). Here it just seems there was no place to move, so people just got pushed along
[QUOTE=Shadow801;48751436]The whole thing is beyond stupid. And kind of barbaric.[/QUOTE] I'd imagine it being difficult to be considerate of others when you're being pushed against your will by hundreds if not thousands of people behind you. Like, if you suddenly halt you're in danger of getting trampled or "crushed".
Wikipedia are not letting the grass grow under their feet, they have updated their Incidents at the Hajj already, they have described it as a crush but then if you follow the link it is titled 2015 Hajj stampede. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidents_during_the_Hajj[/url] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Hajj_stampede[/url]
[QUOTE=Saphirx;48751592]I'd imagine it being difficult to be considerate of others when you're being pushed against your will by hundreds if not thousands of people behind you. Like, if you suddenly halt you're in danger of getting trampled or "crushed".[/QUOTE] I think he means the whole idea of 2 million people gathering in a city to worship a cube and throw stones at pillars is beyond stupid.
[QUOTE=Harry3;48751637]I think he means the whole idea of 2 million people gathering in a city to worship a cube and throw stones at pillars is beyond stupid.[/QUOTE] It is when you have a good chance of being crushed to death in a stampede whilst dodging the falling cranes.
I just wonder sometimes. Do they know how ridiculous they all look for participating in something that kills hundreds just for [I]trying[/I] to participate. And what the fuck is with slaughtering sheep. Possibly the most dangerous and backwards religion in the world.
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;48751619]Wikipedia are not letting the grass grow under their feet, they have updated their Incidents at the Hajj already, they have described it as a crush but then if you follow the link it is titled 2015 Hajj stampede. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidents_during_the_Hajj[/url] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Hajj_stampede[/url][/QUOTE] To be fair though, most people wouldn't exactly know what a crush is but they'll most likely know what a stampede is.
Nearly every year sees scores of deaths during this pilgrimage simply due to the sheer amount of people trying to fit into such a small space. Over two million people attend each year. This is more than the populations in every US city but LA, Chicago, and New York trying to cram in and around one large mosque. Saudi Arabia really needs to take more drastic measures towards ensuring the safety of the huge crowds. Architectural redesigns would be the first place I would probably look. It seems that the entrance into the actual plaza funnels crowds through narrow doorways and passageways. That seems like a recipe for disaster. Just the same, I think the mosque is very pretty. Any alterations they do make to the structure should preserve the artistic integrity, both for aesthetics sake and for the sake of respecting the historied site. [img]http://cdn-wac.emirates247.com/polopoly_fs/1.405820.1309782091!/image/545070436.jpg[/img] Beyond that, I'm sure there are many other things they could do. Hajj is not the largest annual gathering in the world, after all, and most others get by with far fewer incidents. [editline]24th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=DiBBs27;48751708]I just wonder sometimes. Do they know how ridiculous they all look for participating in something that kills hundreds just for [I]trying[/I] to participate. And what the fuck is with slaughtering sheep. Possibly the most dangerous and backwards religion in the world.[/QUOTE] What is dangerous and backwards about a pilgrimage to a holy site? Christians do the same thing by the millions each year to sites relevant to their faith. And while you might find sacrificing of animals distasteful, let's not pretend that this is new or inherent to Islam. Essentially every religion in human history has involved animal sacrifice to some degree. Like, don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly chuffed about it either. It's pointless and cruel, but in the grander scheme of religion as a whole, it's a pretty shallow sin. The dangers in the pilgrimage to Mecca are in crowd control, space, and general logistics. Not faith. Saudi Arabia needs to be more responsible for ensuring the safety of the crowds, but Saudi Arabia doesn't exactly have a great track record for safety and efficiency, so...
[QUOTE=Svinnik;48751573]Just to put it into perspective, the crane that fell down a few weeks ago "only" killed around 67 people.[/QUOTE] That's not true, it killed 118. Still 700+ crushed to death in a crowd is goddamn insane.
This is why it pays to be a bit agoraphobic
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;48751708]I just wonder sometimes. Do they know how ridiculous they all look for participating in something that kills hundreds just for [I]trying[/I] to participate. And what the fuck is with slaughtering sheep. Possibly the most dangerous and backwards religion in the world.[/QUOTE] You usually donate all or some of the lamb's meat to less fortunate people, but sure keep insulting people when over 450 people died, it's really helpful and mature
[QUOTE=JerryK;48751948]You usually donate all or some of the lamb's meat to less fortunate people, but sure keep insulting people when over 450 people died, it's really helpful and mature[/QUOTE] Those people knew what's gonna happen. Plus you don't need to go stand in a killer crowd to donate lamb meat to less fortunate. You can kinda just go do that.
[QUOTE=gudman;48752057]Those people knew what's gonna happen. Plus you don't need to go stand in a killer crowd to donate lamb meat to less fortunate. You can kinda just go do that.[/QUOTE] Are we really saying these people deserved holy shit, and "killer crowd" really? And the slaughtering of the lamb isn't directly related, it's just something they also do, the only reason it's included in the article is to get people up in arms over the "barbaric" killing of poor animals with zero context Which obviously works when people say shit like"they knew they were going to die"
[QUOTE=JerryK;48752111]Are we really saying these people [b]deserved[/b] holy shit, and "killer crowd" really?[/QUOTE] Oh look you've just gone out of your way to shove words in my mouth, didn't you? What's wrong with "killer crowd"? I think it's pretty appropriate, considering that this stuff happens literally every year without fail. That kind of crowd kills people in it, hence "killer".
So tell me what possible meaning "they knew what was going to happen" has
[QUOTE=JerryK;48752147]So tell me what possible meaning "they knew what was going to happen" has[/QUOTE] The fact that just because they've died doesn't mean they are above criticism. Person standing in the middle of the road at night dressed in all black doesn't deserve death when a car hits them, but they're still an idiot.
Killer crowd is kind of accurate because this happens every year. [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidents_during_the_Hajj"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incidents_during_the_Hajj[/URL] I put this on the religion because it blinds these people. As if it's "God's will" to go to this place even though you knowingly have the potential to take part in the process of either crushing other people or being crushed to death yourself, so you can get your pray fix. How anyone condones this shit is beyond me. The en mass slaughtering of sheep, the fact that it isn't directly related makes it so much worse that they all gather in such a small vicinity to do it. Even if they give the meat to poor people. The way they go about all of this shit is cruel and unusual to pretty much everyone involved.
They did get crushed to slaughter sheep, read the article. It just happened to be the same day people slaugther the sheep. And whats wrong with slauthering sheep really? Each of them gets eaten and a portion is a given to the poor. Its no different than the millions of Turkey being slaugthered for thanksgiving. Most of them were crushed when they were at the Jamrat bridge. Its a place where they throw stones at three walls. This is what it looks like [IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32814946/130502-152949-jamarat-bridge.jpg[/IMG] The bridge is strictly one way only and the direction alternates by time. That bridge was completed in 2007 and no major stampeding / crush incidents has happened since then. Authority failure / miscommunication is to be blamed for this, for some reason people were converging onto the bridge from both directions at the time possible causing panic and arguably a stampede.
[QUOTE=Jmir 54;48751910]This is why it pays to be a bit agoraphobic[/QUOTE] Or hate muslims
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