• Trump: US doesn't 'have to be bound' by 'one China' policy
    28 replies, posted
[quote]President-elect Donald Trump again signaled Sunday a willingness to confront Beijing, questioning whether the United States should keep its long-standing position that Taiwan is part of "one China." "I fully understand the 'one China' policy, but I don't know why we have to be bound by a 'one China' policy unless we make a deal with China having to do with other things, including trade," Trump said on "Fox News Sunday." [...] "I mean, look, we're being hurt very badly by China with devaluation, with taxing us heavy at the borders when we don't tax them, with building a massive fortress in the middle of the South China Sea, which they shouldn't be doing, and frankly with not helping us at all with North Korea," Trump said. "You have North Korea. You have nuclear weapons, and China could solve that problem, and they're not helping us at all," Trump said.[/quote] [URL]http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/11/politics/donald-trump-china-taiwan/index.html[/URL] [URL]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38282825[/URL] [URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/11/us/politics/trump-taiwan-one-china.html[/URL]
I don't see how China can solve the North Korean problem. This isn't a terrible policy honestly (Taiwan and China are separate countries; there is no 'one China') but there will be consequences and I'm not sure if Trump is doing this after getting any advice at all.
why is Trump so pro-Russia and anti-China? they're pretty similar in their actions but somehow one's not bad and the other is
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;51514595]why is Trump so pro-Russia and anti-China?[/QUOTE] Because Russia.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51514563]I don't see how China can solve the North Korean problem. This isn't a terrible policy honestly (Taiwan and China are separate countries; there is no 'one China') but there will be consequences and I'm not sure if Trump is doing this after getting any advice at all.[/QUOTE] Taiwan and China are the same country, just with a different government governing each. The Chinese Civil War never officially ended during WW2, the Republic of China just took refuge on Taiwan due to the PRC conquering all of mainland China. As far as I know there has never been a peace treaty between the two so there is no legal document defining the two Nations as actual individual countries. China will not take kindly to Trump openly working with Taiwan since that undermines their claim that they are the only true Chinese Government.
Yankee-Russo alliance will eventually defeat China.
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;51514616]Taiwan and China are the same country, just with a different government governing each. The Chinese Civil War never officially ended during WW2, the Republic of China just took refuge on Taiwan due to the PRC conquering all of mainland China. As far as I know there has never been a peace treaty between the two so there is no legal document defining the two Nations as actual individual countries. China will not take kindly to Trump openly working with Taiwan since that undermines their claim that they are the only true Chinese Government.[/QUOTE] It doesn't matter whether they are technically the same country, practically and for well over 50 or 60 years they have been different countries pursuing different policies and with different allies. It would be much better for the world and for both countries if they accepted that only a two state solution can work now; simply put, Taiwan will not rejoin Mainland China unless there is a war or China becomes a hell of a lot more democratic.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;51514595]why is Trump so pro-Russia and anti-China? they're pretty similar in their actions but somehow one's not bad and the other is[/QUOTE] I guess it's because Russia's not one of the main countries that is reducing the number of jobs in America through means of cheap labor overseas? Just a wild guess.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51514563]I don't see how China can solve the North Korean problem. This isn't a terrible policy honestly (Taiwan and China are separate countries; there is no 'one China') but there will be consequences and I'm not sure if Trump is doing this after getting any advice at all.[/QUOTE] I'm not convinced he isn't going by a Russian playbook. It sounds insane, even to me. Tom Clancy Psyops-esque even, but perhaps that is the world we live in. I just can't rule it out without a reasonable doubt. It's like a song stuck in my head, that I am stuck trying to figure out the words to. Everything he has done seems to be following a hypothetical projection for the downfall of the West to a T: from damaging international relations with allies to massive global economic disruption, it is almost as if he has been given objectives for what he has been told is a recipe for success, but which is actually instructions for setting the stage for the US to be ousted from its position of global power and by proxy, further destabilize and disenfranchise the EU for Russian expansionism. Either that or he knows what it will do, but has been promised a fiefdom in the smoking ruins of our nation after it has been carved to pieces by foreign powers. The biggest cause of this suspicion is his complete avoidance of, public disapproval of, and even overt hostility towards US intelligence services. It's almost as if he doesn't want to be in the room alone with them for fear of being figured out. His avoidance of all intelligence briefings along with his assembly of a cabinet that promises to destroy the American way of life for millions, it [I]almost [/I]fits together [I]too [/I]well to be merely the ramblings of a borderline senile egotistical maniac. It seems like a remarkable coincidence, if it is, that the man elected would happen to believe everything necessary to destroy America is what should be done to fix it. I've always thought from the beginning of this madness that Trump was simply too vulnerable to external manipulation to be President, aside from all of his flaws. I guess in the next few years I'll find out if that gut feeling was right.
I think the simplest explanation is that Trump is an idiot that doesn't listen to advisers.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;51514595]why is Trump so pro-Russia and anti-China? they're pretty similar in their actions but somehow one's not bad and the other is[/QUOTE] Does it matter? Right now we're more pro-China and anti-Russia. Nothing really changes except for the names.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51514714]I think the simplest explanation is that Trump is an idiot that doesn't listen to advisers.[/QUOTE] Probably. I sometimes think in between the stress of trying to graduate from an intensive degree program, my home life, and the impossibly distracting political satire-turned reality that is American politics today (and what it may mean for my chances of ever marrying or adopting), that I might be beginning to lose my objectivity. I'm still waiting for the initial shock to wear off, honestly.
This is idiotic, we all know that Taiwan aint really China but we just go with it because if we didn't China will have to Invade Taiwan to save face. China knows it, Taiwan knows it anybody with a brain knew it, which must be why Trump didn't know it.
[QUOTE=Superkilll307;51514734]This is idiotic, we all know that Taiwan aint really China but we just go with it because if we didn't China will have to Invade Taiwan to save face. China knows it, Taiwan knows it anybody with a brain knew it, which must be why Trump didn't know it.[/QUOTE] Perhaps because as Trump said, [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1544929"]it's better to govern the world from a gut feeling than by utilizing the tools at his disposal,[/URL] saying, “You know, I’m, like, a smart person.” Pretty much disregard my previous post. There is no Russian playbook required. These fools will do it all on their own.
[QUOTE=Superkilll307;51514734]This is idiotic, we all know that Taiwan aint really China but we just go with it because if we didn't China will have to Invade Taiwan to save face. China knows it, Taiwan knows it anybody with a brain knew it, which must be why Trump didn't know it.[/QUOTE] Or perhaps that's his goal? Goading China into a war in this way can politically be used to a number of ends; from imposing heavy sanctions, or outright going to war with China over their "unprovoked invasion of a sovereign country". Why is another question, but I think the assumption that Trump is a bumbling idiot is a dangerous assumption, even if it is most likely true. Because, with that assumption, one never looks too closely at what the interconnected consequences of Trump's actions will be in the end.
[QUOTE=DaMastez;51514805]Or perhaps that's his goal? Goading China into a war in this way can politically be used to a number of ends; from imposing heavy sanctions, or outright going to [b]war with China over their "unprovoked invasion of a sovereign country".[/b] Why is another question, but I think the assumption that Trump is a bumbling idiot is a dangerous assumption, even if it is most likely true. Because, with that assumption, one never looks too closely at what the interconnected consequences of Trump's actions will be in the end.[/QUOTE] Why would Trump deliberately start World War 3?
[QUOTE=CatFodder;51514872]Why would Trump deliberately start World War 3?[/QUOTE] Because he is being counseled by war hawks who may truly believe it will serve a greater good in their God's eyes, or that we need to feed the war machine.
[QUOTE=CatFodder;51514872]Why would Trump deliberately start World War 3?[/QUOTE] That's like asking why Bush went into Iraq after 9/11. They literally had nothing to do with it, nor did Saddam's regime support the perpetrators. And yet here we are.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;51514595]why is Trump so pro-Russia and anti-China? they're pretty similar in their actions but somehow one's not bad and the other is[/QUOTE] china steals jobs, russia doesn't (also russians are white)
I think he is going to handle this situation horrendously wrong but it is rather hypocritical of us to publicly call Taiwan as a part of 'One China' meanwhile we're selling them billions in worth of weapons and equipment. We shouldn't acknowledge them as the Republic of China but try to get them to be something else like the Republic of Taiwan(short lived and formally disbanded over a century ago). They're both polar opposites in government ideology, economy and culture. One is not the other and its time that is made clear.
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;51514616]Taiwan and China are the same country, just with a different government governing each. The Chinese Civil War never officially ended during WW2, the Republic of China just took refuge on Taiwan due to the PRC conquering all of mainland China. As far as I know there has never been a peace treaty between the two so there is no legal document defining the two Nations as actual individual countries. China will not take kindly to Trump openly working with Taiwan since that undermines their claim that they are the only true Chinese Government.[/QUOTE] Weather the Civil War ended or not is irrelevant. Most Taiwanese see themselves as Taiwanese and not Chinese, infact the pro-independance coalition won by a landslide this year against the pro-unification coalition who has been the dominate party since Taiwan started holding elections only losing by narrow margins in the past. I imagine the slow and painful annexation of Hong Kong by the PRC has something to do with the huge sway in public opinion. The people of Taiwan have signalled their largely not interested in unification anymore and we should support that, let China be salty.
[QUOTE=Ta16;51514954]Weather the Civil War ended or not is irrelevant. Most Taiwanese see themselves as Taiwanese and not Chinese, infact the pro-independance coalition won by a landslide this year against the pro-unification coalition who has been the dominate party since Taiwan started holding elections only losing by narrow margins in the past. I imagine the slow and painful annexation of Hong Kong by the PRC has something to do with the huge sway in public opinion. The people of Taiwan have signalled their largely not interested in unification anymore and we should support that, let China be salty.[/QUOTE] As well as the fact that if PRC annexes Taiwan all the political and economic rights the Taiwanese have will be lost, including little what workplace and business regulations they also have so the people there can be exploited even more by western corporations. All the progress Taiwan has made will be undone if the PRC have their way but hypocritically people would rather see hundred of thousands, even millions lose their freedoms and die just to avoid rocking the boat. They also, afaik, aren't bitter towards modern Japan over WW2 and the past.
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;51514702]I'm not convinced he isn't going by a Russian playbook. It sounds insane, even to me. Tom Clancy Psyops-esque even, but perhaps that is the world we live in. I just can't rule it out without a reasonable doubt. It's like a song stuck in my head, that I am stuck trying to figure out the words to. Everything he has done seems to be following a hypothetical projection for the downfall of the West to a T: from damaging international relations with allies to massive global economic disruption, it is almost as if he has been given objectives for what he has been told is a recipe for success, but which is actually instructions for setting the stage for the US to be ousted from its position of global power and by proxy, further destabilize and disenfranchise the EU for Russian expansionism. Either that or he knows what it will do, but has been promised a fiefdom in the smoking ruins of our nation after it has been carved to pieces by foreign powers. The biggest cause of this suspicion is his complete avoidance of, public disapproval of, and even overt hostility towards US intelligence services. It's almost as if he doesn't want to be in the room alone with them for fear of being figured out. His avoidance of all intelligence briefings along with his assembly of a cabinet that promises to destroy the American way of life for millions, it [I]almost [/I]fits together [I]too [/I]well to be merely the ramblings of a borderline senile egotistical maniac. It seems like a remarkable coincidence, if it is, that the man elected would happen to believe everything necessary to destroy America is what should be done to fix it. I've always thought from the beginning of this madness that Trump was simply too vulnerable to external manipulation to be President, aside from all of his flaws. I guess in the next few years I'll find out if that gut feeling was right.[/QUOTE] if you actually think Trump gives a shit about Russia or would bend over to them you have been watching too much CNN.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;51514595]why is Trump so pro-Russia and anti-China? they're pretty similar in their actions but somehow one's not bad and the other is[/QUOTE] gee its almost like being surrounded by pro-russian advisors and having personal grudges against china will do that...
[QUOTE=Stick it in her pooper;51515122]if you actually think Trump gives a shit about Russia or would bend over to them you have been watching too much CNN.[/QUOTE] He's an easily manipulated puppet, lets be honest here. I agree he wont "Bend over to them" but he's almost certinaly doing exactly what Russia wants just by exisiting which is weakening the US and making them look foolish.
[QUOTE=Stick it in her pooper;51515122]if you actually think Trump gives a shit about Russia or would bend over to them you have been watching too much CNN.[/QUOTE] I honestly don't believe Trump has the capacity to express or even feel compassion for anybody other than the select people who reinforce his deluded perception of himself.
[QUOTE=Stick it in her pooper;51515122]if you actually think Trump gives a shit about Russia or would bend over to them you have been watching too much CNN.[/QUOTE] on the other hand, trump has a seemingly magnetic attraction to kremlin connected advisors and people, many of which have been nominated or selected for very important positions in both the government and administration.
[QUOTE=FreakyMe;51515214]I honestly don't believe Trump has the capacity to express or even feel compassion for anybody other than the select people who reinforce his deluded perception of himself. Even then, it may only be a hollow facsimile; him emulating what he thinks it should look like, based on his distorted psychology. Anybody who plays into his ego can play him like a fiddle if they so choose and have the right approach.[/QUOTE] You're being extremely melodramatic First posting about how Trump may be a Russian puppet sent to destroy the west either inadvertently, or with the knowledge that he will receive a "fiefdom" in it's ruins. Now you claim that Trump cannot feel compassion. Like, I get you don't like the guy, but that is pretty melodramatic... Trump is somewhat pro Russian, but I struggle to equate that to the complete downfall of the west.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;51514595]why is Trump so pro-Russia and anti-China? they're pretty similar in their actions but somehow one's not bad and the other is[/QUOTE] They really aren't as similar as you think. The PRC and the USSR fucking hated each other and had several armed conflicts. Then the Soviet Union fell and Russia went in a different direction, while China's been busy doing other crazy shit.
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