Norway introduces compulsory military service for women, bunking them in mixed dorms with men - Polidicks

[IMG]http://www.straitstimes.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_pictrure_780x520_/public/articles/2016/08/25/39629437_-_25_08_2016_-_norway-women-military.jpg?itok=qMexGPEZ[/IMG]' [QUOTE]SETERMOEN MILITARY BASE, NORWAY (AFP) - They sweat together, they sleep together: In the name of gender equality, Norway has introduced compulsory military service for women, even bunking them in mixed dorms with their brothers-in-arms.The military's gender balance is not entirely equal yet, but almost a third of the Norwegian army conscripts born in 1997 were women this summer. At the Setermoen army base just above the Arctic Circle, new recruits in an armoured battalion are learning to handle assault rifles for use on combat missions. Here and there, long ponytails stick out behind the recruits' caps. "It gives me a bigger recruitment pool to choose from," the battalion's chief, Lieutenant Colonel Pal Berglund, says of the new gender equal draft. "I'm still looking for the same competence I always have. And for me it's obvious that this competence is also present within a large part of the female population of Norway." Norwegian women have been able to volunteer for military service for almost 40 years now, helping to gradually feminise the armed forces. The military welcomed its first female helicopter pilot, female jet fighter pilot and female submarine commander already in the early 1990s. But in 2013, at a time when the prime minister was none other than current Nato Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg, a virtually unanimous parliament passed a law applying military conscription to both sexes. The Scandinavian country - where four of the last five defence ministers have been women - has thus become the first Nato member and European country to draft both men and women, joining a tiny group of countries around the world, including Israel. "In operations, it's an advantage having females. They have access to parts of the population that men don't have, for instance for intelligence gathering," says Lt-Col Berglund. The army needs less than 10,000 new recruits each year, far fewer than the 60,000 who are liable to be called up. That means that only the most motivated will actually be asked to serve, in a country where military service is often seen as a personal accomplishment highly valued on the job market. "It enables you to cut the umbilical cord. It's good that girls and boys get the same opportunities," says new conscript Marianne Westum. "I'm aiming to become much more independent, to learn to work as a team member, to make friends from other walks of life. Basically to become more grown-up." The 18-year-old shares living quarters with another woman and four men. Camouflage gear and a military-issued flask are neatly organised in a metal cupboard, only a bra and handbag indicating the presence of a woman. Is it not tempting fate to throw young men and women together in unisex bunks? "We see that exposure to each other increases tolerance, acceptance and understanding toward each other," insists Ms Nina Hellum, a researcher at the Norwegian Research Defence Establishment. "You don't shit in your own nest. You don't want to have sex and fraternise with anyone in your room for example or in your small unit because that makes it quite awkward."[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/norway-introduces-compulsory-military-service-for-women-bunking-them-in-mixed-dorms?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&xtor=CS1-10#link_time=1472103132[/url]

Is it really a good idea to bunk them together? I realize it's a big thing to be "equal" now, but isn't there a lot of instances rape in the military? Of course, Norway could be way better at this than other countries, but something is bound to happen, no more how minor.

[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;50949906]Is it really a good idea to bunk them together? I realize it's a big thing to be "equal" now, but isn't there a lot of instances rape in the military? Of course, Norway could be way better at this than other countries, but something is bound to happen, no more how minor.[/QUOTE] It's a Murphy's law. Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.

Reminds me of college when I lived in the coed dorms. What do you suppose happens when you put a bunch of mixed sex teenagers under the same roof?

[QUOTE=God of Ashes;50949929]Reminds me of college when I lived in the coed dorms. What do you suppose happens when you put a bunch of mixed sex teenagers under the same roof?[/QUOTE] Lol college kids will go to other dorms regardless even if they're separated by gender.

Let's see how well this works out for them.

I thought this was already a thing there and it worked fine Damn where did I get these fake facts?

Mixed genders in the service is great. It turns aircraft carriers into floating high schools.

[QUOTE=God of Ashes;50949929]Reminds me of college when I lived in the coed dorms. What do you suppose happens when you put a bunch of mixed sex teenagers under the same roof?[/QUOTE] What are you implying? Keep in mind that it's the military. If someone wants to fuck around they have to make sure nobody notices in which case is it even a problem

In other news Norway's population growth rate is forecasted to double in the next decade

This has been going on for longer, I actually served at Setermoen and we had 2 women in our team. This is two years ago, but now its compulsory service for women. And yes, there were people who "found" each other, not a big issue tough. But at free time stuff like weekends or holidays drama could surface. Keep in mind its not allowed, so it was risky; you could get moved to another military camp (which sucks, since Setermoen is 10/10)

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;50950205]In other news Norway's population growth rate is forecasted to double in the next decade[/QUOTE] A generation of [I]warriors[/I]. Absolutely brilliant. On a more serious note, this doesn't seem like a particularly good idea, so we'll have to how things turn out.

[quote]Is it not tempting fate to throw young men and women together in unisex bunks? "We see that exposure to each other increases tolerance, acceptance and understanding toward each other," insists Ms Nina Hellum, a researcher at the Norwegian Research Defence Establishment. "You don't shit in your own nest. You don't want to have sex and fraternise with anyone in your room for example or in your small unit because that makes it quite awkward." A 2014 study showed that unisex dormitories helped combat sexual harassment thanks to a phenomenom of "de-genderisation". Sharing living quarters makes both the men and women pay more attention to their behaviour, and thus they're able to develop a camaraderie, an almost sibling-like relationship, the study's authors claimed.[/quote] I feel this part is important, considering most of the posts in this thread is just the same "someone might get raped" sentiment. I think someones willingness to sexually harass/rape is rooted in a fundamental lack of respect for the opposite sex, so I can totally see how this helps combat that. Not to mention how it will most likely strengthen the bond between the soldiers during excercises/combat, regardless of their gender/sex.

it's secret ploy to ensure the population grow is reinitialized by local domestic compatible citizens ... ingenious, applauding Norway for solving birthrate problems and equality in one strike ;) on other hand I bet this ends abused and sexual abuse/rape rate will go thru roof if not squashed with strict policy of no mercy

[QUOTE=Sprelle;50950224] (which sucks, since Setermoen is 10/10)[/QUOTE] Pfff, Heggelia and Rusta is waaay better. Ok, maybe not all of it, but at least we have a real cinema. And the best welfare center. Anyway, I'm pretty sure we've had gender neutral bunking for a long time now. There's talk about having it the same way with showers and toilets as well. The fun thing is that some women turn to be just like men when it comes to being gross and talking shit after spending time with them. In my batallion we had only one girl, and she started walking around passing gas and talking about how long it had been since she had cock :v Everyone thought it was gross, even though almost all the men did basically the same thing.

I'm the sort of age I'd expect people to be put in this situation, and I reckon a large proportion of the women (and quite a few of the men) I know would be very uncomfortable changing clothes and sleeping near - and in full view of - the opposite sex every day. Yes, over time you become immunised to that and it becomes normal, and yes there will always be incidents, but the big problem really is the thought that young people are going to grow up in fear of the days when the government forces them to start stripping off and living around the opposite sex, in some of their most vulnerable years. To be fair though, regarding male/female incidents, things like Deepcut became so horrifying because despite the fact the barracks staff were informed of the rape, it was ignored/denied/covered up because very few people knew about it so it was easy to hide. With fully mixed living, it'll be goddamn obvious whenever someone does something against the rules. It might not be a trainwreck, but it will certainly make people uncomfortable.

I highly doubt rape and stuff like that will be a problem, as others have already said they/we don't let a bunch of hormone filled sociopaths join, there's a wide variety of psychological tests you'll have to pass to even be considered

I find it always so weird how if there is anything like this is in the news mostly people from USA come around talking about rape as first thing.

Well, I don't really know what the sex crime tendencies are for Scandinavia; I'd imagine they're much better than in the UK/US but I've also got enough experience to know there are always shitters and people you wouldn't suspect for a moment who turn out to be shitters. And I assumed that because it was compulsory military service, they'd have to have a damn good reason not to let most people in, even if they were suspected of being a tiny bit dodgy.

It's almost as if nobody who commented about possible sexual encounters between recruits read the last three lines of the excerpt from the article. "Is it not tempting fate to throw young men and women together in unisex bunks? 'We see that exposure to each other increases tolerance, acceptance and understanding toward each other,' insists Ms Nina Hellum, a researcher at the Norwegian Research Defence Establishment. 'You don't shit in your own nest. You don't want to have sex and fraternise with anyone in your room for example or in your small unit because that makes it quite awkward.'" Yeah, I'm sure some people are going to fuck. They're the washouts - kick them out. And yeah, I'm almost certain that at some point somebody is going to get raped. They're criminals - prosecute them. But I think that maybe coed battle training will actually reduce the incidence of war rape by increasing understanding and tolerance like the article says. Basically, I think this is an excellent idea. [editline]26th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Combine 177;50950977]I find it always so weird how if there is anything like this is in the news mostly people from USA come around talking about rape as first thing.[/QUOTE] I agree. I wasn't thinking about rape until everyone else in the thread talked about it.

[QUOTE=J$ Psychotic;50951044]It's almost as if nobody who commented about possible sexual encounters between recruits read the last three lines of the excerpt from the article. "Is it not tempting fate to throw young men and women together in unisex bunks? 'We see that exposure to each other increases tolerance, acceptance and understanding toward each other,' insists Ms Nina Hellum, a researcher at the Norwegian Research Defence Establishment. 'You don't shit in your own nest. You don't want to have sex and fraternise with anyone in your room for example or in your small unit because that makes it quite awkward.'" Yeah, I'm sure some people are going to fuck. They're the washouts - kick them out. And yeah, I'm almost certain that at some point somebody is going to get raped. They're criminals - prosecute them. But I think that maybe coed battle training will actually reduce the incidence of war rape by increasing understanding and tolerance like the article says. Basically, I think this is an excellent idea.[/QUOTE] I don't think you should kick someone out for having sex lol, while I wouldn't have sex with any of my Sailors that I directly work with but everyone else is fair game. Humans will be humans

the problem with this is that it must cause a lot of frustration because anyone that thinks a drill sergeant or their equivalent would allow anything to happen is narrowminded

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;50951053]I don't think you should kick someone out for having sex lol, while I wouldn't have sex with any of my Sailors that I directly work with but everyone else is fair game. Humans will be humans[/QUOTE] Not kick out right away but you might want to at least move them. That type of relationships can cause dramas very easily and you don't want to have to deal with that.

you know it makes me worry about peoples outlook on life when men and women sharing a space is enough for them to be concerned people are going to start raping eachother

I think the weirder part is why does Norway even have compulsory service at all. I understand it for countries that are on a border with immediate enemies but what the hell is Norway's excuse.

People who worry about rape probably havent even considered that male on male and female on female rape is a possibility aswell. True, there might be a majority of straight/bisexual people but it's not like every second individual is a rapist on the loose anyways. This is a great idea.

[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;50950131]Mixed genders in the service is great. It turns aircraft carriers into floating high schools.[/QUOTE] Do you like the internals of the M16? :$ Y[ ] N [ ]

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;50951270]I think the weirder part is why does Norway even have compulsory service at all. I understand it for countries that are on a border with immediate enemies but what the hell is Norway's excuse.[/QUOTE] At this point I don't even give a shit about whether or not it's necessary from a defensive standpoint, imagine the impact these people can have on future generations like their children if they come out with a more positive and understanding view on the other gender than they did when they went in. Imagine how much better their kids can grow up to be if they have parents who actually properly realize that women and men are both just human beings and there's really nothing that weird about either one. Because a lot of people still don't get that on an innate level, they might think so on an intellectual level but they can't connect to it emotionally and intuitively. I feel that after an experience like this, they might be capable of that.

[QUOTE=Combine 177;50950977]I find it always so weird how if there is anything like this is in the news mostly people from USA come around talking about rape as first thing.[/QUOTE] Yeah it's a bit weird. The first thing I think of is the lowered requirements for women to be drafted and if they may become a liability. My friend told stories about how their group had to take turns carrying the equipment for a female member that simply was to weak to finish their hike or whatever. Talk about being a burden.

[QUOTE='[Green];50951306']At this point I don't even give a shit about whether or not it's necessary from a defensive standpoint, imagine the impact these people can have on future generations like their children if they come out with a more positive and understanding view on the other gender than they did when they went in. Imagine how much better their kids can grow up to be if they have parents who actually properly realize that women and men are both just human beings and there's really nothing that weird about either one. Because a lot of people still don't get that on an innate level, they might think so on an intellectual level but they can't connect to it emotionally and intuitively. I feel that after an experience like this, they might be capable of that.[/QUOTE] How the fuck would this help any of that any more than going to mixed sex schools and colleges would? It's is just daft and unnecessary to force people into the military when there's no actual reason to do so.