• Missile that shot down MH17 was brought in from Russia, investigators say
    37 replies, posted
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37495067[/url] [quote]International prosecutors investigating the downing of flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine in 2014 say the missile that hit the plane was fired from territory controlled by Russian-backed rebels. They said the missile launcher was brought into Ukraine from Russia. All 298 people on board the Boeing 777 died when it broke apart in midair flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. Relatives told the BBC that prosecutors told them they would investigate about 100 people over the incident.[/quote]
2014 feels like it was just yesterday.
There was an article in a Finnish newspaper that our government conducted a test with our own BUK-M1 system for the purposes of this investigation, checking what remnants would be left behind by one of those missiles. Perhaps someone better versed in the language could translate fully. As far as I know, the system and accompanying missile loadout we have is the same type used to shoot down the plane. [URL]http://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/a1474947376361?jako=ddda0ee0cb78cc096a7f7b1f1520d959[/URL]
Such sensationalist title. It was from Snezhnoe, rebel-controlled territory in Eastern Ukraine. It wasn't from Russian territory at all. Still, this is nothing new. Everyone knew it was the retarded rebels who did this.
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;51121587]Everyone knew it was the retarded rebels who did this.[/QUOTE] hmmmmmm retarded rebels sponsored by russia????
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51121567]All of this is assuming we have a consensus that this was an accident. If anyone believes DPR rebels downed the plane on purpose, with knowledge, I'd like to hear the reasoning and the evidence behind.[/QUOTE] Considering that when the plane got shot down there was radio chatter from the rebels stating that they shot down a military cargo plane, it's obvious that shooting down a civilian airliner was unintentional.
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;51121587]Such sensationalist title. It was from Snezhnoe, rebel-controlled territory in Eastern Ukraine. It wasn't from Russian territory at all. Still, this is nothing new. Everyone knew it was the retarded rebels who did this.[/QUOTE] It's talking about where the rebels got the missile system, not where it was fired from.
[QUOTE=Araknid;51121604]Considering that when the plane got shot down there was radio chatter from the rebels stating that they shot down a military cargo plane, it's obvious that shooting down a civilian airliner was unintentional.[/QUOTE] That's not really evidence though. If you mistake a civilian airliner with a military cargo plane (how do you do this) then you're an idiot.
[QUOTE=Araknid;51121604]Considering that when the plane got shot down there was radio chatter from the rebels stating that they shot down a military cargo plane, it's obvious that shooting down a civilian airliner was unintentional.[/QUOTE] Which is not a valid excuse for this act at all.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;51121718]Which is not a valid excuse for this act at all.[/QUOTE] It isn't an excuse but it is the deciding factor between manslaughter and murder DPR can go to hell either way
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51121727]It isn't an excuse but it is the deciding factor between manslaughter and murder DPR can go to hell either way[/QUOTE] Well if we're going under US law it wouldn't be manslaughter either since the clear intention was to cause death to whomever was in that plane.
So it's pretty much proven what we known what had happen at the time. Kremlin will still trying to twist it somehow and deny any responsibility. [editline]28th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Map in a box;51121634]That's not really evidence though. If you mistake a civilian airliner with a military cargo plane (how do you do this) [B]then you're an idiot[/B].[/QUOTE] Well you pretty much described DPR, LPR and Putin's Russian government there. This entire conflict is born out of short-sighted idiocy. This plane wash shot down and all this innocent people killed because people who started this war are complete idiots.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;51121718]Which is not a valid excuse for this act at all.[/QUOTE] I know it's not an excuse, I'm just saying it wasn't intentional.
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;51121587]Such sensationalist title. It was from Snezhnoe, rebel-controlled territory in Eastern Ukraine. It wasn't from Russian territory at all. Still, this is nothing new. Everyone knew it was the retarded rebels who did this.[/QUOTE] Retarded rebels? I hope you're aware that the likeliness of the BUK being operated by Russian army personnel is much higher than the likeliness of some random rebels trying to handle it.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51121698]You dont know anything but there is an UFO in the air when you detect an aircraft from ground. Thats why you need: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification_friend_or_foe[/url] to prevent friendly fire. Rebels dont have any aircrafts, and they are under attack by Ukrainian aircraft, so they dont have to do IFF checks. Even if they did: You see superpowers do this shit.[/QUOTE] The fact they fired without doing any verification just proves how shortsighted this entire thing's been.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;51121634]That's not really evidence though. If you mistake a civilian airliner with a military cargo plane (how do you do this) then you're an idiot.[/QUOTE] Its actually not hard at all to mistake a cargo 700-series for a passenger liner if you're a battle weary rebel on the controls of a SAM launcher. IFF verification is purely visual for those rebels and, at 35,000ft(actual distance closer to 60 or 70 thousand due to geometry) a passenger 747 and a mil cargo 707 will look identical. Its perfectly believable they thought they were shooting at a valid miltary target because they lacked the necessary IFf gear to pick out passenger aircraft.
[QUOTE=TestECull;51122250]Its actually not hard at all to mistake a cargo 700-series for a passenger liner if you're a battle weary rebel on the controls of a SAM launcher. IFF verification is purely visual for those rebels and, at 35,000ft(actual distance closer to 60 or 70 thousand due to geometry) a passenger 747 and a mil cargo 707 will look identical.[/QUOTE] Targeting an air target and simply verifying your target by eyeballing it (without zooming of any sort) is just as dumb.
Except Ukraine has no military aircraft to reach to that heights, only a half of it. Did pro-Russian fighters thought they were shooting at American military cargo plane? That would make them truly insane and stupid. As for once, Americans weren't sending any cargo planes to Ukraine until much later and they never went over the wrong. For other, that would be declaration of war with USA! That would mean they wanted to escalate the war to go global. And Russia supports these dipshits. Which means Russia supports terrorists that want to wage war with entire NATO.
I remember when the Russian shills on here were trying to prove a Ukrainian jet shot it down with those photoshopped images.
Great, some people I know are already convinced that it's bullshit because it comes from an international commission (read: the West). Anecdotal, but not unique, I imagine.
[QUOTE=Squad1993;51122410]I remember when the Russian shills on here were trying to prove a Ukrainian jet shot it down with those photoshopped images.[/QUOTE] Uuugh, I remember that when I was on /r/UkrainianConflict. What a shitshow, it was like /r/conspiracy then even with mods removing a lot of those threads. But when it came from Russian media like RT, they had to let it slide.
Literally tens of people are surprised by this! Tens!
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;51122303]Except Ukraine has no military aircraft to reach to that heights, only a half of it. Did pro-Russian fighters thought they were shooting at American military cargo plane? That would make them truly insane and stupid. As for once, Americans weren't sending any cargo planes to Ukraine until much later and they never went over the wrong. For other, that would be declaration of war with USA! That would mean they wanted to escalate the war to go global. And Russia supports these dipshits. Which means Russia supports terrorists that want to wage war with entire NATO.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure if such detailed characteristics of the 'Buk" missile platform are floating around, but one version goes like this: according to some experts (and internet media, which is extremely reliable, of course) the 'Buk's' built-in targeting radar and supporting software are not powerful enough to tell exactly how high the aircraft is, just say that it's "higher than, lower than" and give a very approximate interception course. It's the missile's own radar tracking system that does most of the job hunting the target in the air. 'Buk' wasn't designed to be operated effectively on its own, it's supposed to be supported by other equipment and vehicles, otherwise it's very weak, pretty much deaf and blind unless the target flies more or less directly overhead. I've no idea how reliable that is (probably isn't reliable at all), I wasn't able to find anywhere exactly how 'Buk' works, but it sure seems more plausible than Russian proxies wanting to start a global war over Ukraine.
I don't believe any rebels would be able to handle complex military vehicles without any training. I bet they where in the military a week or two before becoming a 'rebel'. Sadly Russia is going to remain silent, even if they where recorded all the way to the launch-zone. Like when the [url=https://news.vice.com/article/it-is-a-government-crime-the-coffins-of-russias-ghost-soldiers-in-ukraine-are-coming-home]coffins of "Russia's Ghost Soldiers"[/url] came home from the Ukraine war. "Here is $1,850 to drink and remember him. No you don't get to know what had happen."
[QUOTE=Squad1993;51122410]I remember when the Russian shills on here were trying to prove a Ukrainian jet shot it down with those photoshopped images.[/QUOTE] Those where so bad, it was some stock images taken from the front page of google images :v:
[QUOTE=gudman;51122827]I'm not sure if such detailed characteristics of the 'Buk" missile platform are floating around, but one version goes like this: according to some experts (and internet media, which is extremely reliable, of course) the 'Buk's' built-in targeting radar and supporting software are not powerful enough to tell exactly how high the aircraft is, just say that it's "higher than, lower than" and give a very approximate interception course. It's the missile's own radar tracking system that does most of the job hunting the target in the air. 'Buk' wasn't designed to be operated effectively on its own, it's supposed to be supported by other equipment and vehicles, otherwise it's very weak, pretty much deaf and blind unless the target flies more or less directly overhead. I've no idea how reliable that is (probably isn't reliable at all), I wasn't able to find anywhere exactly how 'Buk' works, but it sure seems more plausible than Russian proxies wanting to start a global war over Ukraine.[/QUOTE] SAM launchers in general are pretty unsophisticated and Buk is old news. It was primitive when it was new. I sincerely doubt they intended to bring down a civilian aircraft, especially considering, IIRC, there weren't supposed to be any civilian aircraft there to begin with. This doesn't excuse or justify anything; DPR are stupid thugs.
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;51123009]And the random info I find when searching points towards its own radar being able to do the job to just over the max range it can fire at, beyond that it needs help with tracking from another vehicle. And people tend to focus on optimal use or nothing at all. It's more like they were surprised they even got the thing, took it for a spin, aimed at something and show it usefulness in the conflict and in a hurry to do so didn't check that it could be something else and then by pure luck hit what they were aiming at.[/QUOTE] And the random info I found when searching seemed to contradict itself a lot. I really doubt that the crew was "East Ukrainian Separatists", it has most likely been supplied with the platform itself from Russia. It's obvious from the info that came out of 'rebels" right after the incident that they were waiting for Ukrainian cargo plane, so they probably jumped right up and fired the missile without second thought as soon as the signal popped up on the radar. Fucking idiots.
[QUOTE=Squad1993;51122410]I remember when the Russian shills on here were trying to prove a Ukrainian jet shot it down with those photoshopped images.[/QUOTE] I remember writing up a huge response to the photoshop explaining everything down to which photo of said jet fighter was superimposed into it, the relative height it would have to be compared to the jet liner to be so huge in the photograph (in orbit), or alternatively the photo would have to have been taken from an observing jet only a few hundred feet up, due to the size of the planes compared to the ground beneath
[QUOTE=Squad1993;51122410]I remember when the Russian shills on here were trying to prove a Ukrainian jet shot it down with those photoshopped images.[/QUOTE] It's also entirely coincidental that Russia just happened to find 'definitive radar proof' last week that the missile was fired from the Ukrainian side. Just suddenly turned up just before the findings of this investigation were to be released. This investigation pretty much waltzed over that with a mountain of evidence. Sadly Russia knows nobody outside of their borders believes them. It's about feeding the narrative inside their borders :/
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51121601]hmmmmmm retarded rebels sponsored by russia????[/QUOTE] hmmmmm last time i checked russian command did not ask to fire on civilian aircraft??
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