• 100,000 Revenants - A Doom 4 SnapMap Map Time Lapse
    52 replies, posted
[video=youtube;ss8SyOhqk1I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss8SyOhqk1I[/video]
That's kind of pathetic. Original Doom had levels with easily 200+ enemies in a single level but the creator can't run even 12 in the same room?
Wow that was anticlimatic.
[video=youtube;wh261nfSn3E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh261nfSn3E[/video]
[QUOTE=Fapplejack;50368315]That's kind of pathetic. Original Doom had levels with easily 200+ enemies in a single level but the creator can't run even 12 in the same room?[/QUOTE] Not even in the same room, but active at any one time. I've run into several snapmaps that broke because enemies spawned earlier in the level, which stops them from spawning in a required arena later on. Shit sucks.
[QUOTE=Fapplejack;50368315]That's kind of pathetic. Original Doom had levels with easily 200+ enemies in a single level but the creator can't run even 12 in the same room?[/QUOTE] Blame consoles. Even then though, SnapMap needs a lot of work.
snapmap has some serious potential, but it really upsets me when i see how limited it is. stuff like the room limit and the npc limit really ruins it considering how it has support for some seriously complex stuff
[QUOTE=The_J_Hat;50368347][video=youtube;wh261nfSn3E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh261nfSn3E[/video][/QUOTE] jesus christ it sounds like a medieval battle [editline]22nd May 2016[/editline] and yeah the snapmatic editor is kind of cool until you realize the limitations on it are so fucking strict for no reason.. in the campaign you easily face 20+ enemies at a time. no reason it should be so restrictive.
[QUOTE=Kylel999;50368377] and yeah the snapmatic editor is kind of cool until you realize the limitations on it are so fucking strict for no reason.. in the campaign you easily face 20+ enemies at a time. no reason it should be so restrictive.[/QUOTE] Can you though? I've played through the campaign multiple times but off the top of my head, I can remember only two parts where you fight more than twelve enemies at once. As in, 12 entities spawned in and rendered, not arenas where you kill 6 then 6 more then 4 more after that. I agree generally though. Snapmap is cool if you are making gimmick or competitive maps but as soon as you want to make anything remotely ambitius or cinematic for a singleplayer or coop team to go through it starts falling apart, fast.
Maybe so, but it sure as hell felt like a lot more than 12 at some points
[QUOTE=Kylel999;50368487]Maybe so, but it sure as hell felt like a lot more than 12 at some points[/QUOTE] There's definitely a lot of enemies in specific fights, but it's aided by tight level design and sight lines where enemies bob and weave and you're not able to tell how many there actually are. Even more so, enemies keep spawning in as the fight progresses, often enough while your back is turned, so it cleverly disguises the enemy count in SP by bringing in more when needed. Doing this in Snapmap is technically possible, but a scripting pain in the ass. There's basically no way a fully-coded SP/coop-style map won't be a nightmare with excess script links everywhere due to all the crap you have to go through to make it work.
In their defense those 12 revenants probably have more triangles in them than those 100 000 sprites in the original, not to mention all the calculations that have to be done for the physics, animations and rendering a 3D model, compared to a 2D sprite. Plus I doubt the 100 000 map would run on a 1993 PC, and people showing it off probably run it on new PCs. So, maybe in 20 years PCs will be able to handle 100 000 revenants from 2016 in id tech 6 and we can make a fair comparison then.
Still pretty ridiculous it's only 12 demons though. The campaign regularly throws more than that at you all the time.
Really wish they would release a proper map editor for at least the PC version. SnapMap looks so underwhelming.
[QUOTE=Destroyox;50369045]Still pretty ridiculous it's only 12 demons though. The campaign regularly throws more than that at you all the time.[/QUOTE] I'm sure under more specific conditions, though. So, the campaign doesn't throw 12 of the most resource intensive demons at you at once, I'm assuming. But SnapMap sets that limit because you might be throwing 12 of the most resource intensive demons at once.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;50369245]I'm sure under more specific conditions, though. So, the campaign doesn't throw 12 of the most resource intensive demons at you at once, I'm assuming. But SnapMap sets that limit because you might be throwing 12 of the most resource intensive demons at once.[/QUOTE] They can limit that individually for each demon, then. Or not at all, like a map maker should. Let the creator optimize, don't do it for them.
[QUOTE=Dissolution;50369263]They can limit that individually for each demon, then. Or not at all, like a map maker should. Let the creator optimize, don't do it for them.[/QUOTE] But then you'd get the inverse of this video where it's someone shitting on it for not runnin at 90 FPS with 100000 revenants. There isn't really a winning play.
Haven't actually touched the snapmap yet, but that really sucks if there are so much restricted limits on it. I really had some cool idea's for making some co-op maps with it. But if it is 64 max for enemies. That sucks. You know what is funny? i kinda always think that doom is a small bit like serious sam. (In a good way) Even serious sam had fully functional editors for making your own map. You could make more enemies than 64. Well, i guess ill wait for an update for snapmap.
[QUOTE=AntonioR;50369017]Plus I doubt the 100 000 map would run on a 1993 PC[/QUOTE] Still a hell lot more than 12. [quote][img]http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/doom/images/9/99/Plutonia_MAP32_map.png/revision/latest?cb=20050112045355[/img][/quote]
I think it was obviously you can't replicate things like that in a modern game. It's a tiny little low-res sprite texture against extremely detailed models with animations attached and tons of textures with each of them hundred times bigger than the original sprite. As for the limits - well, snap map on PC is a direct port of the one from consoles.
[QUOTE=Fish_poke;50369560]But then you'd get the inverse of this video where it's someone shitting on it for not runnin at 90 FPS with 100000 revenants. There isn't really a winning play.[/QUOTE] Yeah, because the opinion of a mongletard holds so much weight.
I wish they hadn't went for the cross-platform feature on snapmap. It introduces so many restrictions for the pc version. I enjoyed playing with it for about 12 hours but then I just started to see all the limitations and gave up. Even some of the featured maps break because of the 12 demon limit. I've got stuck in lockdowns and stuff because the demons won't spawn in the room because they've spawned somewhere else.
It's like they wanted to capitalize on how popular things like Halo's Forge was with how everyone creates quirky and unique little gamemodes and stuff, but they forgot to actually make SnapMap competent beyond this.
[QUOTE=RikohZX;50369925]It's like they wanted to capitalize on how popular things like Halo's Forge was with how everyone creates quirky and unique little gamemodes and stuff, but they forgot to actually make SnapMap competent beyond this.[/QUOTE] Halo 5's forge is a perfect example on how much you can build, when i was making maps i barely touched the limits even so back i halo 3.
[QUOTE=darth-veger;50369943]Halo 5's forge is a perfect example on how much you can build, when i was making maps i barely touched the limits even so back i halo 3.[/QUOTE] On one hand, there's no AI enemies you can place in Forge, it has no real singleplayer content unless you do your own thing. But on the other hand, SnapMap is nowhere near extensive in any way as 5's Forge, except scripting at best. Id could've handled this many other ways, but instead it's like they didn't care. And I doubt the 'free DLC' for SnapMap will fix anything, just add new tiles and weapons/customization from multiplayer in.
Couldn't he have put a spawner that continually spawns Revenants to literally have infinite revenants? I mean, it wouldn't be 100 000 Revenants all at once, but you would still have a load of Revenants to kill. The limit only really applies to demons spawned by hand, IIRC. Encounter spawners does not affect total demons limit because they are not pre-loaded into the map. Which means you can make maps with a LOT of enemies at one time. [editline]22nd May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Fapplejack;50368315]That's kind of pathetic. Original Doom had levels with easily 200+ enemies in a single level but the creator can't run even 12 in the same room?[/QUOTE] Yeah, but enemies in DOOM 1/ 2 weren't quite as smart/mobile as they are now. Add with that the game is MUCH MUCH more demanding than back then, and you have a potentially very laggy combo if there was no limits. Like AntonioR said as well, 100 000 sprites =/= 100 000 3D real-time rendered mobile entities that also shoots particles that are also rendered. I think your computer would literally overheat/bluescreen in that scenario.
[QUOTE=Feuver;50370348] Yeah, but enemies in DOOM 1/ 2 weren't quite as smart/mobile as they are now. Add with that the game is MUCH MUCH more demanding than back then, and you have a potentially very laggy combo if there was no limits. Like AntonioR said as well, 100 000 sprites =/= 100 000 3D real-time rendered mobile entities that also shoots particles that are also rendered. I think your computer would literally overheat/bluescreen in that scenario.[/QUOTE] Do people actually believe this when they say that? It's like you can't get any more ignorant on this topic. While most people don't expect 100k 3D models, they do expect more than 12 and that is very reasonable. Not everyone runs on console hardware level PCs, some of us can actually handle 13 demons live at once. When it comes to pc there is no reason why this limit should be hard enforced. If they're so worried about experience, make it so maps that go over limit are not shown to casuals in the map browser. A custom filter where you can tick "show maps that go over limit" would fix that issue and make everyone happy. [quote]I think your computer would literally overheat/bluescreen in that scenario.[/quote] Not how computers work, holy shit man. If your setup isn't badly installed or damaged beforehand, it will not literally do any of these things.
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;50370391]Do people actually believe this when they say that? It's like you can't get any more ignorant on this topic. While most people don't expect 100k 3D models, they do expect more than 12 and that is very reasonable. Not everyone runs on console hardware level PCs, some of us can actually handle 13 demons live at once. When it comes to pc there is no reason why this limit should be hard enforced. If they're so worried about experience, make it so maps that go over limit are not shown to casuals in the map browser. A custom filter where you can tick "show maps that go over limit" would fix that issue and make everyone happy. Not how computers work, holy shit man. If your setup isn't badly installed or damaged beforehand, it will not literally do any of these things.[/QUOTE] Perhaps they still would limit it for quality reasons, it boils down to hardware and engine limits and when comparing actual limits, Halo 5 is a lot more interesting then snapmap
Original Doom had arbitrary limits too, including the famous 128 visplanes limit. I agree that this is pretty pathetic though. [url]http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Static_limits[/url] [QUOTE=AntonioR;50369017]In their defense those 12 revenants probably have more triangles in them than those 100 000 sprites in the original, not to mention all the calculations that have to be done for the physics, animations and rendering a 3D model, compared to a 2D sprite. Plus I doubt the 100 000 map would run on a 1993 PC, and people showing it off probably run it on new PCs. So, maybe in 20 years PCs will be able to handle 100 000 revenants from 2016 in id tech 6 and we can make a fair comparison then.[/QUOTE] According to my link, original Doom had a 128 vissprite limit. Obviously the 100,000 revenants level is meant for source ports, which have enhanced capabilities.
[QUOTE=darth-veger;50370404]Perhaps they still would limit it for quality reasons, it boils down to hardware and engine limits and when comparing actual limits, Halo 5 is a lot more interesting then snapmap[/QUOTE] I have no idea why you even mention Halo 5? How's that relevant?
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