U.S. cuts off talks with Russia over Syria amid worsening relations
41 replies, posted
[quote]The U.S. State Department announced Monday it had suspended bilateral talks with Russia over the failed cease-fire in [URL="http://www.cbsnews.com/syria-crisis/"]Syria’s five-year-old civil war[/URL], saying Moscow had “failed to live up to its own commitments.”
The cessation of talks was announced amid [URL="http://www.cbsnews.com/news/putin-russia-plutonium-disposal-deal-suspended-us-hostile-actions-reports/"]worsening diplomatic relations between Washington and Moscow[/URL], and just after aid groups said their hospitals have been apparently directly targeted by a Russian-led bombing campaign. Activists have [URL="http://www.cbsnews.com/news/syrian-government-airstrikes-have-killed-more-than-9000-activist-group-says/"]blamed the Russian government for 9,000 deaths[/URL]​ in the last year.
In a statement, spokesman John Kirby said “Russia and the Syrian regime have chosen to pursue a military course, inconsistent with the Cessation of Hostilities, as demonstrated by their intensified attacks against civilian areas, targeting of critical infrastructure such as hospitals, and preventing humanitarian aid from reaching civilians in need, including through [URL="http://www.cbsnews.com/news/syria-aid-convoy-strike-russia-us-medical-workers-killed-attack-aleppo/"]the September 19 attack on a humanitarian aid convoy[/URL]​.”
The U.S. and Russia had negotiated a [URL="http://www.cbsnews.com/news/syria-cease-fire-clinically-dead-rebels-aleppo-un-aid-convoy-us-airstrike-russia/"]short-lived and largely unsuccessful cease-fire[/URL]​ that included a military coordination deal. As part of the suspension, the U.S. is withdrawing personnel that it had dispatched to take part in the creation of a joint U.S.-Russia center.
That center was to have coordinated military cooperation and intelligence if the cease-fire had taken hold. The suspension will not affect communications between the two countries aimed at de-conflicting counter-terrorism operations in Syria.
[/quote]
[URL="http://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-cuts-off-talks-russia-syria-cease-fire-aleppo-hospital/"]CBS article[/URL].
Well this doesn't sound good for the future of Syria, or any of that region.
There was never a real possibility for peace. We insist on our overall foreign policy strategy for the region, supporting sunni 'moderates' alongside anti-democratic Turkey and Saudi Arabia to strike at a baathist state operating with the support of the non-sunni minorities and allied with regional powers like russia and iran. We don't want peace, we want to shape the middle east through the instability of the Arab spring and annihilate secular arab nationalism once and for all, that's why clinton rejected talks with Gaddafi's sons while ignoring the repression of protests in, say, a gulf monarchy like Bahrain. Russia has a completely opposite position in the middle east, extending back to the soviet era, of supporting the Arab nationalists as a political bloc independent of the West and the reactionary gulf monarchies.
Vote for Clinton if you want a hawk to give us more of this shit and while profiting off of it.
[QUOTE=Conscript;51146650]There was never a real possibility for peace. We insist on our overall foreign policy strategy for the region, supporting sunni 'moderates' alongside anti-democratic Turkey and Saudi Arabia to strike at a baathist state operating with the support of the non-sunni minorities and allied with regional powers like russia and iran. We don't want peace, we want to shape the middle east through the instability of the Arab spring and annihilate secular arab nationalism once and for all, that's why clinton rejected talks with Gaddafi's sons while ignoring the repression of protests in, say, a gulf monarchy like Bahrain. Russia has a completely opposite position in the middle east, extending back to the soviet era, of supporting the Arab nationalists as a political bloc independent of the West and the reactionary gulf monarchies.
Vote for Clinton if you want a hawk to give us more of this shit and while profiting off of it.[/QUOTE]
I cant wait for that dude who always jumps when someone says something about clinton. Would be really intrigued to see how he defends her this time without resorting to a "Bu bu but trump!"
[QUOTE=Conscript;51146650]There was never a real possibility for peace. We insist on our overall foreign policy strategy for the region, supporting sunni 'moderates' alongside anti-democratic Turkey and Saudi Arabia to strike at a baathist state operating with the support of the non-sunni minorities and allied with regional powers like russia and iran. We don't want peace, we want to shape the middle east through the instability of the Arab spring and annihilate secular arab nationalism once and for all, that's why clinton rejected talks with Gaddafi's sons while ignoring the repression of protests in, say, a gulf monarchy like Bahrain. Russia has a completely opposite position in the middle east, extending back to the soviet era, of supporting the Arab nationalists as a political bloc independent of the West and the reactionary gulf monarchies.
Vote for Clinton if you want a hawk to give us more of this shit and while profiting off of it.[/QUOTE]
Russia is supporting Assad because Syria lies in a strategically important area for Russia. If they truly cared for the plight of the Syrian national they wouldn't be indiscriminately bombing the dog shit out of them.
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;51146658]I cant wait for that dude who always jumps when someone says something about clinton. Would be really intrigued to see how he defends her this time without resorting to a "Bu bu but trump!"[/QUOTE]
The only reason I'd want Trump elected is because he's in Russia's pocket. And while that sounds bad, I think better relations between US and Russia could lead to great things.
Also, again, with the double standards that people have come to expect from Conscripts inane ramblings. Russia accepts a cessation of hostilities for a couple days then resumes and intensifies hostilities so clearly peace was never on the table, it's America's fault, and better namedrop Clinton because fuck it why not.
[editline]3rd October 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Hilton;51146689]The only reason I'd want Trump elected is because he's in Russia's pocket. And while that sounds bad, I think better relations between US and Russia could lead to great things.[/QUOTE]
Nobody doesn't want better relations with Russia but it shouldn't come at the cost of appeasement.
I sure understand that our troops are there because of politics and don't really care much about the local population, so it's obvious a lot of civilians have been killed civilians as a result of unintentional collateral damage from air strikes and whatnot. What i don't understand is why they would systematically target hospitals or humanitarian convoys. That won't give them any obvious benefits, while simultaneously causing tons of political problems.
Again, I can easily believe in a single accidental airstrike blowing up a single convoy or a hospital. But doing this over and over again doesn't make any sense. Sounds like bullshit to be honest.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51146680]Russia is supporting Assad because Syria lies in a strategically important area for Russia. If they truly cared for the plight of the Syrian national they wouldn't be indiscriminately bombing the dog shit out of them.[/QUOTE]
They're not that strategically important, but of course this is about geopolitics and you're basically making a tu quoque argument.
They were a war water port, but now they have Crimea anyway. More importantly, they see a domino effect in 1)the growth of US influence there having implications for places like Ukraine and 2) the growth of sunni islamists that follow in our wake reaching places like the Caucasus
Also please prove how my description of the situation is wrong instead of dismissing it out of hand. You know damn well I'm right, progressives and trumpists are born from the same dissent to this bullshit foreign policy. Case in point:
[url]http://m.dailykos.com/story/2016/4/29/1521312/-Emails-Reveal-True-Motive-for-Libya-Intervention[/url]
[url]http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/9054182[/url]
[QUOTE=Conscript;51146720]They're not strategically important. They were a war water port, but now they have Crimea anyway.
More importantly, they see a domino effect in 1)the growth of US influence there having implications for places like Ukraine and 2) the growth of sunni islamists that follow in our wake reaching places like the Caucasus[/QUOTE]
Tartarus is home to a small Russian naval facility, the idea that it isn't strategically key to Moscow because they have Crimea is absurd. They are both strategically important.
And right, again, the blatant double standards at play: The growth of US influence in Ukraine is clearly a problem and not the growth of Russian influence, and by "growth of Russian influence" I mean when they supported a fuckin insurgency to claim it's "independence".
[QUOTE=Conscript;51146650]There was never a real possibility for peace. We insist on our overall foreign policy strategy for the region, supporting sunni 'moderates' alongside anti-democratic Turkey and Saudi Arabia to strike at a baathist state operating with the support of the non-sunni minorities and allied with regional powers like russia and iran. We don't want peace, we want to shape the middle east through the instability of the Arab spring and annihilate secular arab nationalism once and for all, that's why clinton rejected talks with Gaddafi's sons while ignoring the repression of protests in, say, a gulf monarchy like Bahrain. Russia has a completely opposite position in the middle east, extending back to the soviet era, of supporting the Arab nationalists as a political bloc independent of the West and the reactionary gulf monarchies.
Vote for Clinton if you want a hawk to give us more of this shit and while profiting off of it.[/QUOTE]
Walking away will just make things much worse for Syria. US and her allies needs to help the rebels depose Assad since he's certainly an massive monster who'll never stabilize the country.
Also lmao, Trump is the guy who fucking said he was going to cut off the head of ISIS' and steal their oil, even though it's Iraq's rightfully. God fucking knows what his Syrian plan is. Vote for Clinton if you don't want a 4 year old mind at the head of the war.
Also Clinton refused to talk with the heirs of a oppressive dictator who plunged his country into war? Say it ain't so. Giving them any real say in that front would have been fucking retarded.
[QUOTE=Conscript;51146650]
Vote for Clinton if you want a hawk to give us more of this shit and while profiting off of it.[/QUOTE]
And vote Trump if you want that region buying its lunch with bottlecaps instead of currency.
@raidyr
...what growth of Russian influence? There is no double standard, just how much of a joke this new mccarthyism on the part of the democrats is. Is Russia an ailing regional power, a glorified gas station, or is it the new hitler at the gates of the liberal democracies? Make up your minds
The biggest growth of 'russian influence ' is the eurasian economic union (a joke without Ukraine) and its funding of the euro far right
The reality is this 'growth of Russian influence' and this 'new hitler' started when Russia rolled so far back we entered it's backyard. It's a shitty country on the defensive, this boogeyman is a joke
[QUOTE]Also Clinton refused to talk with the heirs of a oppressive dictator who plunged his country into war? Say it ain't so. Giving them any real say in that front would have been fucking retarded.[/quote]
Peace talks are retarded, let's just dissolve Arab nation states into cesspools of sectarianism and factional struggles, cuz freedumb
Hope someone just fucking kills Putin
[QUOTE=proboardslol;51146850]Hope someone just fucking kills Putin[/QUOTE]
Putin getting assassinated would make matters worst because there would probably be a power struggle in Russia which would affect everybody in and around Russia including Eastern Europe and China.
Didn't they already try to kill Putin? Ran right into his car on the freeway and killed his chauffeur - Poutine wasn't in it.
[QUOTE=Bbarnes005;51147475]Putin getting assassinated would make matters worst because there would probably be a power struggle in Russia which would affect everybody in and around Russia including Eastern Europe and China.[/QUOTE]
While I hate Putin, you are right. Someone from his circle of goons would take his place and they're probably worse.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51146680]Russia is supporting Assad because Syria lies in a strategically important area for Russia. If they truly cared for the plight of the Syrian national they wouldn't be indiscriminately bombing the dog shit out of them.[/QUOTE]
The Russian leadership doesn't give a shit about Syria or anyone else for that matter. The Kremlin is just another power system that's working towards its own aims and for its own benefit. What's the point of bringing this up other than to shift the conversation to somewhere you feel more comfortable?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51146705]Also, again, with the double standards that people have come to expect from Conscripts inane ramblings. Russia accepts a cessation of hostilities for a couple days then resumes and intensifies hostilities so clearly peace was never on the table, it's America's fault, and better namedrop Clinton because fuck it why not.[/QUOTE]
Conscript's "inane ramblings" about Arab nationalism and historical western aversion to it are completely correct and that's why you don't bother addressing them at all.
[QUOTE=Cructo;51146835]Do people actually think the "Trump will nuke the middle East" meme is real?[/QUOTE]
I think they're more referring to the "Let's take the oil" and "Kill terrorist's families" ideas he had.
Can we really stop being enemies with Russia?
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;51147879]Can we really stop being enemies with Russia?[/QUOTE]
Not as long as Cold War "veterans" are still running the show in D.C and Moscow.
What's really sad is that before the revolution we actually had fairly decent relations with Russia.
[QUOTE=Bbarnes005;51147897]Not as long as Cold War "veterans" are still running the show in D.C and Moscow[/QUOTE]
I guess. It really looks to me like the US is the one unwilling to cooperate.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;51147913]I guess. It really looks to me like the US is the one unwilling to cooperate.[/QUOTE]
It's definitely Russia unwilling to cooperate. Putin seems intent on rebuilding the Soviet empire
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;51146658]I cant wait for that dude who always jumps when someone says something about clinton. Would be really intrigued to see how he defends her this time without resorting to a "Bu bu but trump!"[/QUOTE]
it is partially her fault though, she brought this whole intervention in libya and syria thing to the public's eye, and kerry is just continuing it.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;51148041]It's definitely Russia unwilling to cooperate. Putin seems intent on rebuilding the Soviet empire[/QUOTE]
He's intent on pocketing as much shit as he can, while playing a dictator to stay in power. These guys have shown time and time again that they have no idea of what they're doing, applying Cold War-era strategies to modern world, completely in denial of the fact that it's all transparent.
I'm pretty sure the whole Syrian campaign is maintained for no other reason than to distract attention from MH17. Yeah, it doesn't work out too well, but it's not like Putin has anything better to try than to just keep the show running, first negotiating a peace and then bombing aid convoy to shit on it. It's for the best that the Coalition is ceasing to talk with Putin, there's nothing productive to come out of it. Russia doesn't want peace in the region, there's no geopolitical endgame here.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;51147879]Can we really stop being enemies with Russia?[/QUOTE]
When Russia stop acting evil and imperialistic, sure.
[editline]4th October 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;51147913]I guess. It really looks to me like the US is the one unwilling to cooperate.[/QUOTE]
Russia wants for US to capitulate on all issues over Syria.
That's not a sign of cooperation, that's just Russia demanding from US to do what Russia wants to do.
We helped create the situation by having a hand in the rise of ISIS and now Russia is exploiting it for everything it's worth and keep Assad in power while we're trying to contain and destroy ISIS and kick Assad out of power . Neither side is innocent.
[QUOTE=CroGamer002;51148417]When Russia stop acting evil and imperialistic, sure.
[editline]4th October 2016[/editline]
Russia wants for US to capitulate on all issues over Syria.
That's not a sign of cooperation, that's just Russia demanding from US to do what Russia wants to do.[/QUOTE]
How is that different than the US demanding Assad be removed as part of any final deal? It's completely ridiculous and might as well not even hold negotiations if that's an inarguable position.
To tell you the truth Russia might unfortunately have a point about keeping Assad in power because I honestly think we can't trust the FSA and the other groups we're supporting including the Turks since Erdogan also has increasingly questionable goals and the role Turkey is playing with supporting ISIS by letting them use their pipelines.
There's really no strong alternative to Assad since as far as I know the FSA or any other groups friendly to the U.S/Coalition have a strong single leader.
[QUOTE=Bbarnes005;51148975]To tell you the truth Russia might unfortunately have a point about keeping Assad in power because I honestly think we can't trust the FSA and the other groups we're supporting including the Turks since Erdogan also has increasingly questionable goals and the role Turkey is playing with supporting ISIS by letting them use their pipelines.
There's really no strong alternative to Assad since as far as I know the FSA or any other groups friendly to the U.S/Coalition have a strong single leader.[/QUOTE]
Syria's fucked either way. There can only be one way to keep Assad in power - exterminate all opposition, because no one will just accept his rule after such a long conflict. And without him - power vacuum of such a scale that it'll most likely just destroy what's left of Syrian statehood and turn it into Sahara, in comparison Libyan scenario seems like the best outcome possible: Gaddafi hadn't had such a loyal social, economic and military elites due to ethnic reasons. Syria's deeply and truly fucked.
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