• 5 Words I'd like to see Retired from Game Discussion (TotalBiscuit)
    71 replies, posted
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhAJV5D353w[/media]
leave it to totalbiscuit to make a 42 minute video about 5 words
The five words in case you'd rather not sit through 42 minutes: 1. [sp]Pay-2-Win[/sp] 2. [sp]Cinematic[/sp] 3. [sp]Overrated[/sp] 4. [sp]Roguelike[/sp] 5. [sp]Beta[/sp]
Honestly, Rogue-like is a really good term. Language changes over time TB, get used to it. Rogue-like as it's known today means any game in which you lose all "progress" when you die. I think that's a good term and really simplifies things.
[QUOTE=FunnyStarRunner;49527127]The five words in case you'd rather not sit through 42 minutes: 1. [sp]Pay-2-Win[/sp] 2. [sp]Cinematic[/sp] 3. [sp]Overrated[/sp] 4. [sp]Roguelike[/sp] 5. [sp]Beta[/sp][/QUOTE] Reading the list without listening to the reasoning makes it kinda... meaningless.
I've never thought of overrated as "it's popular so it's bad". I've always considered it to be when people considered a game more than it is. A recent example would be Undertale. It's a fine game, but the general community think of it more than it is.
[QUOTE=SoaringScout;49527098]leave it to totalbiscuit to make a 42 minute video about 5 words[/QUOTE] His data tells him that people like these videos. He has some pretty good retention data.
[QUOTE=Brt5470;49527233]His data tells him that people like these videos. He has some pretty good retention data.[/QUOTE] Well I'm not one of them. Watch literally any of his videos and he retreads every point at least 9 times since he is just rambling and doesn't stick to a script. Its annoying as fuck to listen to someone go in circles because they can't think straight.
[QUOTE=thrawn2787;49527238]Well I'm not one of them. Watch literally any of his videos and he retreads every point at least 9 times since he is just rambling and doesn't stick to a script. Its annoying as fuck to listen to someone go in circles because they can't think straight.[/QUOTE] Well he certainly labels his videos pretty well overall. "I will now talk about a thing for 45minutes." But I'll agree on the script part. He's proud that he can go scriptless but then does produce those videos that seem to go nowhere for a good while specifically because he's not scripting them.
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;49527152]Honestly, Rogue-like is a really good term. Language changes over time TB, get used to it. Rogue-like as it's known today means any game in which you lose all "progress" when you die. I think that's a good term and really simplifies things.[/QUOTE] Just say permadeath.
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;49527152]Honestly, Rogue-like is a really good term. Language changes over time TB, get used to it. Rogue-like as it's known today means any game in which you lose all "progress" when you die. I think that's a good term and really simplifies things.[/QUOTE] I don't think that definition fits as The Binding of Isaac is a roguelike but you can transfer coins and upgrades across runs.
[QUOTE=Fayez;49527228]I've never thought of overrated as "it's popular so it's bad". I've always considered it people considering a game more than it is. A recent example would be Undertale. It's a fine game, but the general community think of it more than it is.[/QUOTE] "Overrated" is an awful word to use. It means that you can't wipe off the rest of society and make a fair judgement for yourself of the media without connecting it to the outside world it cannot control, while also overestimating the worth of your opinion. Whenever I hear someone say "this is overrated", I imagine them saying "what's [I]their[/I] problem, maaaan. This thing sucks." Who cares about everyone else? If you're going to state your opinion of the media - [I]state your opinion of the media[/I]. Don't bring in irrelevant shit into your review.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;49527317]"Overrated" is an awful word to use. It means that you can't wipe off the rest of society and make a fair judgement for yourself of the media without connecting it to the outside world it cannot control, while also overestimating the worth of your opinion. Whenever I hear someone say "this is overrated", I imagine them saying "what's [I]their[/I] problem, maaaan. This thing sucks." Who cares about everyone else? If you're going to state your opinion of the media - [I]state your opinion of the media[/I]. Don't bring in irrelevant shit into your review.[/QUOTE] But some things [I]are[/I] overrated. The term has a bad reputation because hipsters keep using it but it makes sense on its own.
[QUOTE=Fayez;49527228]I've never thought of overrated as "it's popular so it's bad". I've always considered it people considering a game more than it is. A recent example would be Undertale. It's a fine game, but the general community think of it more than it is.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure if you can call something "overrated" without the dust settling and a significant number of people realizing that without the hype the game isn't as good as everyone thought it was initially. Take this with a grain of salt since I love Undertale, but a better (and more recent) example is Fallout 4, which at launch was hailed as the second coming of jesus but when the dust settled the bugs became extremely obvious and most newer reviews began dinging it. This is opposed to people sticking Undertale on their top ten lists left and right months after release and have not gone back on their initial feelings. If something is to be considered overrated it must be in hindsight by the people who bought into the hype, not someone who never enjoyed it to begin with. Still, "Overrated" is an inherently useless term because it relies almost entirely on personal preference or the way I presented it above. I don't think I've ever seen the word overrated in a way that's not just shitting on the game that's loved by the majority of people who play it. Underrated is the same way. People love to whip about "Underrated" for stuff that was initially received poorly that they themselves enjoy, and I've seen it banded about everything from Atlantis to Turok to The Super Mario Brothers Movie. All of these are deeply flawed, some way WAY more than others, but it's essentially just someone saying "I like it despite all the problems".
[QUOTE=wauterboi;49527317]"Overrated" is an awful word to use. It means that you can't wipe off the rest of society and make a fair judgement for yourself of the media without connecting it to the outside world it cannot control, while also overestimating the worth of your opinion. Whenever I hear someone say "this is overrated", I imagine them saying "what's [I]their[/I] problem, maaaan. This thing sucks." Who cares about everyone else? If you're going to state your opinion of the media - [I]state your opinion of the media[/I]. Don't bring in irrelevant shit into your review.[/QUOTE] For me, calling a game overrated is not a criticism of the game, it's a criticism of the community around that game. Just because I consider Undertale to be overrated doesn't make me think less of the game.
Overrated means the media (and popular opinion formed solely from exposure to said media) is painting a product as far better than it actually is, typically ignoring its flaws or granting it more qualities than it actually has. Underrated is the opposite. It doesn't have to be a permanent state and it doesn't have to rely solely on subjectivity.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49527334]But some things [I]are[/I] overrated. The term has a bad reputation because hipsters keep using it but it makes sense on its own.[/QUOTE] It has a condescending connotation, like rather than just saying you personally didn't like a game as much as other people, you're trying to belittle the opinions of others who liked it.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49527334]But some things [I]are[/I] overrated. The term has a bad reputation because hipsters keep using it but it makes sense on its own.[/QUOTE] Dunno. It's one of those things I don't really care about. My baseline for a good review is an examination of whether or not the game is good or bad and why. No where in that is there room for the examination of the surrounding society, and more often than not people have no idea how to use it without being extremely snobby about it, i.e "I don't get why people like this game." It's not reserved to hipsters - it's kind of a problem with the word and its purpose itself. It's a meaningless summary of the reviewer's perception of society that doesn't make or break the integrity of the game, and often times when people say "overrated", it unfortunately informs their decision of the quality of the media. "Overrated" could probably be used correctly, but what it entails is generally the exact thing I want outside of my game reviews. I don't care about other fans or people.
Well the general rule of thumb about "popular opinion" is that it's better to think little of it than to take it seriously if only for the fact that media hype is a poison that makes it really difficult to actually tell what people think of something. Overrated and Underrated both exist as a concept because things such as media hype and bandwagons exist. Where shit starts going wrong is when dumb people stop making the distinction between popular opinion and the individuals who have that opinion.
I hope his reasons are good. Good luck having a reasonable and insightful discussion about the game development and release process without using 'beta'. And why would you discourage people from using 'roguelike' to describe games that have been defined, for 20 years, as fitting into the now-established genre of 'roguelike' When I have 45 minutes I'll give it a look I guess
Here's another problem with saying "overrated" - it doesn't really elaborate how much. A lot of people just leave it at overrated without ever explaining what that means. Is it a [I]bit[/I] overrated? Is it [I]super[/I] overrated? How much is a bit or super? Is it still a good game? Is it worth playing? By the time you get to explaining what "overrated" means, you might as well not have said it, because now you're just explaining if it's good or not, which is all I cared about in the first place. It leads to the same place but wastes more time.
A game can be good while being overrated. It just means that the game has been granted qualities that it doesn't necessarily have (or in the case of underrated, been bashed for issues that aren't necessarily apparent).
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49527408]A game can be good while being overrated. It just means that the game has been granted qualities that it doesn't necessarily have (or in the case of underrated, been bashed for issues that aren't necessarily apparent).[/QUOTE] Sure, but that would be clarified by simply doing the review process anyway. Saying "overrated" adds nothing of value to the review. I'm all for contrarians, but it's one thing to be contrarian in your actions and another to announce it, imo. It's calling attention to the fact that you're different, when in reality your actions and opinions should suffice on their own. Perhaps I'm not articulating what I mean very well, but it's just meaningless to me to hear someone say, "Well, it's not as good as people are saying." Just get to business.
[QUOTE=FunnyStarRunner;49527127]The five words in case you'd rather not sit through 42 minutes: 1. [sp]Pay-2-Win[/sp] 2. [sp]Cinematic[/sp] 3. [sp]Overrated[/sp] 4. [sp]Roguelike[/sp] 5. [sp]Beta[/sp][/QUOTE] these are pretty fucking annoying but most of them aren't disagreeable pay 2 win absolutely needs to stop being a thing that exists in games but it does exist, and that's really asinine. cinematic is a really stupid and petty excuse devs use in place of "we don't know how to make games". Devs use it because they want to pretend games can be movies.
[QUOTE=J!NX;49527544]these are pretty fucking annoying but most of them aren't disagreeable pay 2 win absolutely needs to stop being a thing that exists in games but it does exist, and that's really asinine. cinematic is a really stupid and petty excuse devs use in place of "we don't know how to make games". Devs use it because they want to pretend games can be movies.[/QUOTE] I think he's against comfortable words that don't require a lot of extra thinking or elaboration. People are quick to throw out words and categorize without actually reviewing the game. It trains people to think a certain way and it's a very simple way to shut games down.
That's rather unavoidable though. By that I mean literally unavoidable. Whatever becomes the common word for something will always be easy to use and require little thinking. Its not like picking a new word alleviates the problem.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;49527578]That's rather unavoidable though. By that I mean literally unavoidable. Whatever becomes the common word for something will always be [B]easy to use and require little thinking[/B]. Its not like picking a new word alleviates the problem.[/QUOTE] That should be the problem.
i probably would have gone with [sp]entitled[/sp] rather than [sp]roguelike[/sp]
Actual roguelikes aren't that hard to find. Just go to [url]www.roguebasin.com[/url] and if it's not there it doesn't play like a traditional roguelike.
[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;49527824]i probably would have gone with [sp]entitled[/sp] rather than [sp]roguelike[/sp][/QUOTE] I remember when this word was first brought into popularity. [video=youtube;Dos50mhB1qs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dos50mhB1qs[/video] Don't know how it became common, still stupid then as it is now.
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