• Canadian who beheaded and cannibalized fellow greyhound passenger set free
    46 replies, posted
[URL="http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/freedom-granted-to-man-who-beheaded-passenger-on-greyhound-bus-1.3280429#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=twitter&_gsc=iHpmEDe"]http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/freedom-granted-to-man-who-beheaded-passenger-on-greyhound-bus-1.3280429#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=twitter&_gsc=iHpmEDe[/URL] [QUOTE] A man who was found not criminally responsible for beheading and cannibalizing a fellow passenger on a Greyhound bus has been granted his freedom. Manitoba's Criminal Code Review Board has given Will Baker, formerly known as Vince Li, an absolute discharge, meaning he is no longer subject to monitoring. Baker, a diagnosed schizophrenic, killed Tim McLean, a young carnival worker who was a complete stranger to Baker, in 2008.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]“He’s very intelligent, sincere, kind man. He feels absolutely terrible about what happened,” said Libman. “He’s committed to doing everything he needs to do to continue to live a law-abiding life and stay healthy.”[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]“I would agree that as long as Vince Li is taking all of his medications, that the last eight years, he’s proven that he is in the proper frame of mind to function in society,” he said. “What if he goes off his medications? What if he stops seeing his psychiatrists? What is the recourse for the courts, and there isn’t any.”[/QUOTE] Literal cannibal being set free. I hope for the sake of everyone that he keeps taking his medication.
Oh shit, I remember hearing about the incident. Not sure if total freedom is a good idea tbh.
Ignorance incarnate.
I don't know guys seems like a reasonable fellow, whats the problem? :worried:
I remember reading about this case. I personally dunno about him not being monitored, no mattter how good a recovery he has made.
Oh boy, lot of ethical considerations here. On the one hand, this is a person, same as you or me, who thinks and feels and has, at some basic level, the fundamental right to operate in society. At the same time, he not only has a mental illness, but he has committed a dangerous and gruesome act of violence in his past, which could indicate a propensity for future actions. But he's on medication. And that medication seems to be working, as it has for eight years. And as long as that medication keeps him from experiencing schizophrenic episodes, he's fine, perfectly normal. But if he ever ends up in a situation where he can't obtain that medicine, or he stops taking it voluntarily, then he could become just as dangerous and uncontrolled as he was originally. I fully believe that the purpose of prison is to rehabilitate criminals so they can become a productive part of society, but in a situation like this, I can't help but feel uneasy. I feel for the guy, because he didn't choose to have a mental illness, he got dealt a shit hand and now largely has no autonomy. That's horrific. At the same time, he did behead someone and eat his corpse. And that's also horrific. I think the courts have made a mistake here. The guy should at least be required to submit for regular psychiatric evaluations, and not requiring that could result in his condition slipping without his knowledge. I suppose at a point like this, it is society's job to step in and exercise some degree of control in the life of the individual if they can't do so themselves. But that has to be massively humiliating and debilitating. This is a hard thing to have an opinion on, isn't it?
i trust the proffesionals that made this decision made the right one and hope the guy has truly changed for the better. if he fucks up then i'll eat my words and hope the people responsible get charged.
This story has stuck with me since it happened..it fucked me up for the first few days after I heard about it. No one would feel safe in the same room as this guy. I wouldn't want him anywhere near me or people I care about.
[QUOTE]On July 29, around 6 p.m., Li got off the bus in Erickson, Manitoba, with at least three pieces of luggage, and stayed the night on a bench next to a grocery store. [B]According to one witness, he was seen at 3 a.m. sitting bolt upright with eyes wide open.[/B][/QUOTE] (Source: Wikipedia) Just to show how spooky this story is.
[quote]Baker, a diagnosed schizophrenic, killed Tim McLean, a young carnival worker who was a complete stranger to Baker, in 2008.[/quote] I think this is important to bear in mind. Separate the person from their illness, with treatment they likely see that he can behave as a very normal person, which is why he was set free. People who are mentally ill don't want to behave the way they do and can be totally functional members of society with the right treatment and care. [editline]10th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=27X;51807057]Ignorance incarnate.[/QUOTE] Why? If he's made a recovery and is behaving like a normal person over a long period of time, which sets a trend of stability and safety, does actions he couldn't control in the past make him undeserving of freedom like anyone else?
Well so long as he's properly medicated it seems like he's perfectly functional in society again according to the authorities. So, so long as he's on his medication I see no issue here really.
His meds are working it seems, I would say this is exactly how the court system should work. He's shown he's rehabilitated. I'm ok with this
[QUOTE=Daemon White;51807053]Oh shit, I remember hearing about the incident. Not sure if total freedom is a good idea tbh.[/QUOTE] Wait until he goes off his meds again and cuts somebody else's head off! The government should keep constantly monitoring him and making sure he keeps taking his pills. Now no one is monitoring him and making sure he'll keep taking his pills. The Canadian government has to be totally incompetent/naive to think that it couldn't happen again even if the chance of him re offending is low. All it takes is him forgetting or deciding to not take his pills and bam someone else is dead rinse and repeat. [editline]11th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=viperfan7;51807527]His meds are working it seems, I would say this is exactly how the court system should work. He's shown he's rehabilitated. I'm ok with this[/QUOTE] How does anybody know if he'll regularly take his meds now that he's out on his own? Sure he's rehabilitated but all it takes is him running out of pills not deciding to take his medication or even forgetting to take them and he could re offend again. Also I'm not saying he shouldn't have his freedom because he was nuts when he killed the guy but he should still be watched to make sure he's taking those pills.
[QUOTE=coldroll5;51807610]Wait until he goes off his meds again and cuts somebody else's head off! The government should keep constantly monitoring him and making sure he keeps taking his pills. Now no one is monitoring him and making sure he'll keep taking his pills. The Canadian government has to be totally incompetent/naive to think that it couldn't happen again even if the chance of him re offending is low. All it takes is him forgetting or deciding to not take his pills and bam someone else is dead rinse and repeat. [editline]11th February 2017[/editline] How does anybody know if he'll regularly take his meds now that he's out on his own? Sure he's rehabilitated but all it takes is him running out of pills not deciding to take his medication or even forgetting to take them and he could re offend again. Also I'm not saying he shouldn't have his freedom because he was nuts when he killed the guy but he should still be watched to make sure he's taking those pills.[/QUOTE] Well, Canada has a process by which violent offenders can be kept behind bars for life if they're deemed "dangerous offenders", that is, at risk to offend again. This verdict is handed down after extensive examination by medical professionals who study both his physiology and his mental acuity. That he was not considered a dangerous offender by the review board indicates that he is not considered enough of a risk to be under continued surveillance, and if anything, I'm pretty damn sure the knowledge of what he did would be enough to ensure he never forgets to take his medication ever again.
I don't know how someone can live with themselves after doing cannibalizing another human being, Even if unintentionally, At the very least put a tracking device on the guy
[QUOTE=wrv451nlp;51807919]I don't know how someone can live with themselves after doing cannibalizing another human being, Even if unintentionally, At the very least put a tracking device on the guy[/QUOTE] A tracking device would be utterly pointless. On the other hand, mandating that he must come in for evaluations every so often to make sure he's still taking his meds, wouldn't be.
[QUOTE=wrv451nlp;51807919][B]I don't know how someone can live with themselves after doing cannibalizing another human being[/B], Even if unintentionally, At the very least put a tracking device on the guy[/QUOTE] In his mind there's a disconnect between who he was then and who he is now. I don't think his mind fully comprehends that he himself did it - that memory may just feel like a disconnected or half-remembered dream.
I'm pretty sure that the people assigned to work this case has a much better understanding of the situation than the average poster here.
[QUOTE=Mango;51808035]I'm pretty sure that the people assigned to work this case has a much better understanding of the situation than the average poster here.[/QUOTE] I wonder if that's true. Plenty of cases have happened where people involved aren't as qualified as they should be.
Well if any incidents were to occur again, the very people who set him free will be feeling fucking guilty Let's hope it never goes to that point
[QUOTE=Mango;51808035]I'm pretty sure that the people assigned to work this case has a much better understanding of the situation than the average poster here.[/QUOTE] This is a pretty good point. While every man can have an opinion on the matter, most of us are not fair judges of the case at all.
I don't recommend reading how he killed the guy, it's more disturbing then usual.
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;51808048]I wonder if that's true. Plenty of cases have happened where people involved aren't as qualified as they should be.[/QUOTE] Even if they're not as qualified as they should be - and I really hope that's not the case here - then they still have a better understanding of the case than most people here. Not that we can't have an opinion on the matter, of course.
[QUOTE=paul simon;51807986]In his mind there's a disconnect between who he was then and who he is now. I don't think his mind fully comprehends that he himself did it - that memory may just feel like a disconnected or half-remembered dream.[/QUOTE] This and other posts are fucking WRONG. Schizophrenia is not "multiple personality disorder" or whatever the fuck dumb fucking hollywood movies portray it as. Schizophrenics have no "schizophrenic episodes" but rather experience positive(psychotic) and negative(stuff like executive dysfunction) symptoms, they are all controlled by stress in the same way for everyone else. Everyone has a threshold at which they become psychotic from stress, physical, mental, otherwise. Schizophrenia doesn't make you a murderer, schizophrenia doesn't mean multiple personalities, schizophrenia is an umbrella term that the psychiatrist puts on you which means "Well fuck if I know, here have some antipsychotics and SSRI's" - I am diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and I don't even need medication to stay fine. So take your pseudo-intelligent "i learned thing from csi: miami" bullshit and throw it in the fucking bin.
[QUOTE=coldroll5;51807610]Wait until he goes off his meds again and cuts somebody else's head off! The government should keep constantly monitoring him and making sure he keeps taking his pills. Now no one is monitoring him and making sure he'll keep taking his pills. The Canadian government has to be totally incompetent/naive to think that it couldn't happen again even if the chance of him re offending is low. All it takes is him forgetting or deciding to not take his pills and bam someone else is dead rinse and repeat. [editline]11th February 2017[/editline] How does anybody know if he'll regularly take his meds now that he's out on his own? Sure he's rehabilitated but all it takes is him running out of pills not deciding to take his medication or even forgetting to take them and he could re offend again. Also I'm not saying he shouldn't have his freedom because he was nuts when he killed the guy but he should still be watched to make sure he's taking those pills.[/QUOTE] I don't necessarily disagree with him being monitored, at least checking in with a therapist or or something every week, but seeing as he clearly regrets what happens wouldn't that suggest to you that he might be motivated to take no chances with his medication? It's not like he's some sociopath who's going to try to manipulate everyone around him.
[QUOTE=Mango;51808035]I'm pretty sure that the people assigned to work this case has a much better understanding of the situation than the average poster here.[/QUOTE] People say this all the time as if mistakes are impossible.
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;51808089]People say this all the time as if mistakes are impossible.[/QUOTE] the mistake here would be not considering whether the guy could lapse again given that a) he was a fairly high profile case and b) your gut instinct is 'er, hold on, why are they letting someone who decapitated a dude walk?', I'm dead certain they thought about that.
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;51808089]People say this all the time as if mistakes are impossible.[/QUOTE] they can, but i'm more inclined to trust the the professionals who've worked with, treated, and evaluated him for 8 years more than some guys and gals who read a couple articles and never even met the guy. if someone gives me a legitimate reason to believe they made a mistake, then alright, but until that happens i'll continue to trust the professionals.
[QUOTE=The bird Man;51808064]I don't recommend reading how he killed the guy, it's more disturbing then usual.[/QUOTE] This post has the exact opposite effect of what you wanted. And I was kinda disappointed that you hyped it up way more than it actually was. I dunno maybe I'm just desensitised as fuck.
[QUOTE=NeverGoWest;51808075]This and other posts are fucking WRONG. Schizophrenia is not "multiple personality disorder" or whatever the fuck dumb fucking hollywood movies portray it as. Schizophrenics have no "schizophrenic episodes" but rather experience positive(psychotic) and negative(stuff like executive dysfunction) symptoms, they are all controlled by stress in the same way for everyone else. Everyone has a threshold at which they become psychotic from stress, physical, mental, otherwise. Schizophrenia doesn't make you a murderer, schizophrenia doesn't mean multiple personalities, schizophrenia is an umbrella term that the psychiatrist puts on you which means "Well fuck if I know, here have some antipsychotics and SSRI's" - I am diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and I don't even need medication to stay fine. So take your pseudo-intelligent "i learned thing from csi: miami" bullshit and throw it in the fucking bin.[/QUOTE] I didn't say it was multiple personality disorder, was really assuming stuff based on my own experience / things my psychiatrist have taught me. Sorry to upset you. I don't have multiple personality disorder, and I feel disconnected from things I did many years ago when I was still heavily affected by a PTSD. (stress disorder, I was very angry and scared for no reason and hurt a lot of people) I can't feel very guilty about things I did because it's hard for me to associate those memories as part of the "me" I am now. Is it wrong to guess that it'll be something in the same vein for this guy? Something you do while affected by a mental condition might not feel like "you" later in your life.
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