How Canada’s oilsands are paving the way for driverless trucks — and the threat of big layoffs - Polidicks

[b]How Canada’s oilsands are paving the way for driverless trucks — and the threat of big layoffs[/b] Source: [url=http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/Canada+oilsands+paving+driverless+trucks+threat+layoffs/11118375/story.html]Calgary Herald[/url] _________________________ [quote][img]http://i.imgur.com/CDZkvcA.png[/img] [i]A heavy earthmoving truck at the Tom Price iron ore mine, operated by Rio Tinto Group, near Perth, Australia.[/i] --- CALGARY – The 400-tonne heavy haulers that rumble along the roads of northern Alberta’s oilsands sites are referred to in Fort McMurray as “the biggest trucks in the world,” employing thousands of operators to drive the massive rigs through the mine pits. Increasingly, however, the giant trucks are capable of getting around without a driver. Indeed, self-driving trucks are already in use at many operations in the province, although they are still operated by drivers while the companies test whether the systems can work in northern Alberta’s variable climate. That is about to change. Suncor Energy Inc., Canada’s largest oil company, confirmed this week it has entered into a five-year agreement with Komatsu Ltd., the Japanese manufacturer of earthmoving and construction machines, to purchase new heavy haulers for its mining operations north of Fort McMurray. All the new trucks will be “autonomous-ready,” meaning they are capable of operating without a driver, Suncor spokesperson Sneh Seetal said. The move to driverless trucks comes as Suncor and its competitors in the oilsands look for opportunities to cut costs and boost productivity, an effort that has intensified amid the year-long plunge in oil prices. The steep fall in prices has already forced the sector as a whole to lay off thousands, with Suncor itself letting go 1,000 people this year.[/quote] Everyone is replaceable/expendable. No exceptions. However, there's always someone needed to monitor these things.

I mean, great, it's less lives in danger, but I feel like these aren't jobs that need to be automated. Someone will tell me that it's OK because it makes new jobs. Sure, it makes [B]new[/B] jobs - a few supervisors, a few maintainers, but in the end you have [B]less[/B] jobs. I believe in the right to profit margins but things like this give me pause. How many families won't be able to put food on the table as drivers and other crew members are laid off?

The reason these truckers are paid 200k a year... [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/NyUbdOW.jpg[/IMG] Who would want to work in these conditions, with zero luxury? It's like those fishermen from "Deadliest Catch". On paper, they have an amazing salary, at the cost of working in one of the most hostile/dangerous environments ever.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;47935796]The reason these truckers are paid 200k a year... [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/NyUbdOW.jpg[/IMG] Who would want to work in these conditions, with zero luxury? It's like those fishermen from "Deadliest Catch". On paper, they have an amazing salary, at the cost of working in one of the most hostile/dangerous environments ever.[/QUOTE] Tbh for a salary like that I would not care if they had me driving through a warzone in that thing.

imo the grass [I]is[/I] greener, and so is your paycheck

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;47935796]The reason these truckers are paid 200k a year... [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/NyUbdOW.jpg[/IMG] Who would want to work in these conditions, with zero luxury? It's like those fishermen from "Deadliest Catch". On paper, they have an amazing salary, at the cost of working in one of the most hostile/dangerous environments ever.[/QUOTE] I also imagine living costs are through the roof. Getting goods to remote areas isn't cheap. And piss poor internet

[QUOTE=nox;47935870]Tbh for a salary like that I would not care if they had me driving through a warzone in that thing.[/QUOTE] I agree, to some extent. What's the point of racking up 200k a year if you live in the middle of nowhere, in the freezing cold, daydreaming about how are you gonna blow all that sweet money? Chances are people don't last long in this line of business for that reason alone. Just look at all those texans with "oil money" spending it on their souped-up Ford Raptors.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;47935796]The reason these truckers are paid 200k a year... [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/NyUbdOW.jpg[/IMG] Who would want to work in these conditions, with zero luxury? It's like those fishermen from "Deadliest Catch". On paper, they have an amazing salary, at the cost of working in one of the most hostile/dangerous environments ever.[/QUOTE] PEople tend to do these kind of job's for a short while to save up for few thing's then leave.

[QUOTE=Demache;47935943]I also imagine living costs are through the roof. Getting goods to remote areas isn't cheap. And piss poor internet[/QUOTE] Yea, pretty much. All of a sudden, seeing that large number on your bank account would make you question if living in such a shithole for almost all year is worth it...

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;47935974]Yea, pretty much. All of a sudden, seeing that large number on your bank account would make you question if living in such a shithole for almost all year is worth it...[/QUOTE] most of the job's pay for food and accommodation's

This is why countries need to start introducing a basic income, mass automation will eventually take the majority of jobs and we need to remove the stigma of not working before it drives people into poverty when there just aren't enough jobs for everyone.

[QUOTE=squids_eye;47935983]This is why countries need to start introducing a basic income, mass automation will eventually take the majority of jobs and we need to remove the stigma of not working before it drives people into poverty when there just aren't enough jobs for everyone.[/QUOTE] this it will either make society a dystopia or utopia

[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;47935996]this it will either make society a dystopia or utopia[/QUOTE] There isn't much choice though, automation is inevitable, society can either adapt or collapse.

[QUOTE=squids_eye;47935983]This is why countries need to start introducing a basic income, mass automation will eventually take the majority of jobs and we need to remove the stigma of not working before it drives people into poverty when there just aren't enough jobs for everyone.[/QUOTE] We're either moving into that direction, or I can also see some sort of weird system where you're allocated a robot when you're old enough to "work" and you "lease" (hire-out) this robot out to do work for you to provide income. Depending on the intelligence of these machines, it'll be kinda like slavery except the robots are programmed to be A-okay with it so it's morally fine! Ta-dah!

Humans need not apply [hd]https://youtu.be/7Pq-S557XQU[/hd]

The moment you're wage is more that keeping a robot for the same time that can do the same work, you're gone.

[QUOTE=squids_eye;47935983]This is why countries need to start introducing a basic income, mass automation will eventually take the majority of jobs and we need to remove the stigma of not working before it drives people into poverty when there just aren't enough jobs for everyone.[/QUOTE] We're really stubborn and selfish, our current attitude is that if you can't support yourself, you deserve to die under a bridge. When automation starts taking over huge industries like retail and transportation, I can't say with confidence that there will be a positive outcome.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;47935656]I mean, great, it's less lives in danger, but I feel like these aren't jobs that need to be automated. Someone will tell me that it's OK because it makes new jobs. Sure, it makes [B]new[/B] jobs - a few supervisors, a few maintainers, but in the end you have [B]less[/B] jobs. I believe in the right to profit margins but things like this give me pause. How many families won't be able to put food on the table as drivers and other crew members are laid off?[/QUOTE] It's inevitable. We're going to have to adapt.

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;47936050]We're either moving into that direction, or I can also see some sort of weird system where you're allocated a robot when you're old enough to "work" and you "lease" (hire-out) this robot out to do work for you to provide income. Depending on the intelligence of these machines, it'll be kinda like slavery except the robots are programmed to be A-okay with it so it's morally fine! Ta-dah![/QUOTE] I don't see that working, why would someone just give you money for work done by a robot made by someone else? I think that removing money entirely should be the end goal.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;47936162]We're really stubborn and selfish, our current attitude is that if you can't support yourself, you deserve to die under a bridge. When automation starts taking over huge industries like retail and transportation, I can't say with confidence that there will be a positive outcome.[/QUOTE] But when everyone finds themselves on the other side they'll be more keen to the idea of a basic income. There might be some trouble at first but in the end it's either that or mass unemployment. [editline]12th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=squids_eye;47936210]I don't see that working, why would someone just give you money for work done by a robot made by someone else? I think that removing money entirely should be the end goal.[/QUOTE] But something like that can only happen if EVERY job was done by a robot. What about until then?

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;47935482] Everyone is replaceable/expendable. No exceptions.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Tone Float;47936171]It's inevitable. We're going to have to adapt.[/QUOTE] It isn't inevitable. People define what progress is. We have 100% of the agency over our use of technology. There's no nature in it, no rule of law when it comes to how we define it. And if we choose to see progress as a series of arbitrary technological innovations that come at our own expense, that we mysteriously think we have no hand in moderating and that we have to actually sacrifice people's well-being to attain, yikes Like... pretarcruento, read what you wrote out of context, without thinking about whatever it was when you wrote it, and try to see how objectively creepy and callous it sounds [editline]11th June 2015[/editline] basically, we have the ability to automate things but we don't have a social/economic solution, or apparently even a sensibility, for the people who's jobs get automated

[QUOTE=squids_eye;47935983]This is why countries need to start introducing a basic income, mass automation will eventually take the majority of jobs and we need to remove the stigma of not working before it drives people into poverty when there just aren't enough jobs for everyone.[/QUOTE] No. Jobs change. If they didn't, 90% of people would still be working out on the fields just like in the old days. Primary and secondary industries in western countries have been declining for a long time but unemployment has generally been stable, close to the natural unemployment rate. Jobs will go into aged care and related industries as our populations get older.

[QUOTE=Antdawg;47936340]No. Jobs change. If they didn't, 90% of people would still be working out on the fields just like in the old days. Primary and secondary industries in western countries have been declining for a long time but unemployment has generally been stable, close to the natural unemployment rate. Jobs will go into aged care and related industries as our populations get older.[/QUOTE] This man has common sense. A workforce will never disappear, it will adapt. Nothing in the foreseeable future can mimic the human brain (yet), so I'm optimistic that jobs will shift to more creative occupations. Simply doing what robots can't yet, eventually in hundreds of years that sort of utopia/dystopia would be likely though

This is the direction the mining industry has been trying to achieve for going on about 10 years now. Human labor is both a large cost and a source of inefficiency when it comes to an operation. Generally speaking about 80% of labor at surface mines at least will be eliminated within 20 years.

If you honestly believe that automation won't leave fewer jobs behind, you're wrong. Sure, jobs change and we always need more people, more food, resources, etc meaning people will still work, but there's a point where automation will replace far more jobs than it leaves behind. People will have to find a way to still be important to businesses. That will not be enough for everyone.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;47936063]Humans need not apply [hd]https://youtu.be/7Pq-S557XQU[/hd][/QUOTE] I'm interested in knowing which jobs automation couldn't "replace." I also like to think that humans are the irreplaceable catalyst to advancements.

[QUOTE=Electrocuter;47936226]But when everyone finds themselves on the other side they'll be more keen to the idea of a basic income. There might be some trouble at first but in the end it's either that or mass unemployment.[/QUOTE] The people on top won't find themselves on the other side unless civilization totally collapses, and by that point they won't be able to fix it. [editline]12th June 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Antdawg;47936340]No. Jobs change. If they didn't, 90% of people would still be working out on the fields just like in the old days. Primary and secondary industries in western countries have been declining for a long time but unemployment has generally been stable, close to the natural unemployment rate. Jobs will go into aged care and related industries as our populations get older.[/QUOTE] Farming Jobs were replaced by machinery, so people moved onto factories. But factory jobs were out-sourced and those jobs were replaced by others, namely service and transportation. But those jobs are slowly becoming automated too now, some fast food restaurants have kiosks and some stores have self-checkout, and Google has proven that driverless vehicles [I]are[/I] possible. So once automation is cheap and reliable enough to replace 80% of these jobs, where are these people gonna go?

when the only real jobs left are incredibly specialized jobs you need extensive training for or education for, how will that EVER be enough for everyone? Let alone how do we deal with the unemployment issue as it comes to pass that those jobs are replaced, how do a slightly aged population who didn't prepare for the age of automation manage to make it through those years? Service jobs aren't going to last forever.

[QUOTE=_RJ_;47936859]I'm interested in knowing which jobs automation couldn't "replace." I also like to think that humans are the irreplaceable catalyst to advancements.[/QUOTE] You can't replace human creative thought. New ideas and new inventions, new theories, new methods. Simply irreplaceable. Until a machine can be capable of creative thought, which I'm pretty sure has a lot of ethical issues. Hell if we can barely trust eachother how would we ever trust a nonhuman capable of creative thought

no human should have to waste their life away by driving a truck for most of their life