• Russian ships arrive on Ukraine's Crimean coast as fears mount over Russian invasion in the region
    48 replies, posted
[QUOTE]According to Russian news site, flot.com, Russian military ships carrying soldiers have arrived on Ukraine’s Crimean coast in what some news reports and experts are claiming could be the early signs of a Russia coup in the hotly disputed autonomous region of the Crimea. Russia’s large landing ship Nikolai Filchenkov has arrived near Russia Black Sea military base of Sevastopol, which is a Russian operated-military base in the Crimea. The ship is reported to be carrying as many as 200 soldiers and has joined four additional ship carrying an unknown amount of Special Forces troops. Flot.com also reported on the February 22/23 that personnel from the 45th Airborne Special Forces unit and additional divisions had been airlifted into Anapa, a city on Russia’s Black Sea coastline. Further, it remains to be seen if a weakened Ukraine that is in the midst of a full scale revolution can respond to the Russian military developments or if NATO will take the United States' line by telling Russia to stay clear of the region. However, a Russian invasion of the Crimea seems to be popular with the largely Russian population of the Crimea after a flurry of pro-Russian protests have called for Russian intervention.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.ibtimes.com/russian-ships-arrive-ukraines-crimean-coast-fears-mount-over-russian-invasion-region-1557639[/url]
Crimea should go independent again
Ukraine is way too weak right now to counter a Russian invasion. I hope NATO tells Russia to stay the fuck away.
[QUOTE=VOSK;44035704]Ukraine is way too weak right now to counter a Russian invasion. I hope NATO tells Russia to stay the fuck away.[/QUOTE] Russia won't invade, that would be really dumb of them.
[QUOTE=VOSK;44035704]Ukraine is way too weak right now to counter a Russian invasion. I hope NATO tells Russia to stay the fuck away.[/QUOTE] Never underestimate the strength of someone fighting on their home turf. They may have weaker numbers and somewhat lesser trained but often they know the lay of the land much better and can use it to their advantage. [QUOTE=carcarcargo;44035730]Russia won't invade, that would be really dumb of them.[/QUOTE] Not really dumb considering what they could gain from having West Ukraine, warm ports, better farm land, more oil, etc. They'd just have a hard time answering to NATO.
Ukraine even before all the protests wouldn't stand a chance against Russia. Home turf advantage means nothing when half the country supports the invader and lay of the land means nothing when the other side have satellites.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;44035813]Ukraine even before all the protests wouldn't stand a chance against Russia. Home turf advantage means nothing when half the country supports the invader and lay of the land means nothing when the other side have satellites.[/QUOTE] Which is why Afghanistan was such an open an shut war! Oh....
[QUOTE=mc lovin;44035843]Which is why Afghanistan was such an open an shut war! Oh....[/QUOTE] "Damn us for not just indiscriminately murdering everyone until they surrender to make it a "quick" war"
[QUOTE=mc lovin;44035843]Which is why Afghanistan was such an open an shut war! Oh....[/QUOTE] If our goal was simply to go in and beat the Afghan government in a military conflict then yes it would have been an open and shut war, but it isn't. We know the geography of the country but that doesn't help when the insurgents don't stay in one place. Let me know if I'm going too fast for you, you don't seem too bright.
[QUOTE=mc lovin;44035843]Which is why Afghanistan was such an open an shut war! Oh....[/QUOTE] Becuase it's still cool to piss all over America right? Also focus, Russia may or may not invade and take the Ukraine back by force, and if it does then Russia might get away because of it's nukes. I hope none of this means nuclear hellfire.
Everyone talks about Crimea going independent or joining Russia (which doesn't seem to be realistic at this point), but we're missing a question here: What the hell are they going to do economically? The entire region alone can't just rely on the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol. [editline]25th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;44036158]Becuase it's still cool to piss all over America right? Also focus, Russia may or may not invade and take the Ukraine back by force, and if it does then Russia might get away because of it's nukes. I hope none of this means nuclear hellfire.[/QUOTE] It won't. Ever. Don't be so dramatic.
[QUOTE=mc lovin;44035748]Never underestimate the strength of someone fighting on their home turf. They may have weaker numbers and somewhat lesser trained but often they know the lay of the land much better and can use it to their advantage. Not really dumb considering what they could gain from having West Ukraine, warm ports, better farm land, more oil, etc. They'd just have a hard time answering to NATO.[/QUOTE] Having West Ukraine doesn't matter much when you are going to face possible embargo and political suicide at best and all out war at worst. NATO's knee-jerk force will be so intense it'll cause a small shift to the Earth's orbital patterns. [editline]24th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=mc lovin;44035843]Which is why Afghanistan was such an open an shut war! Oh....[/QUOTE] You again show your incredible knowledge of world events to be not only poorly expressed, but completely based in ignorance.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;44036158]Becuase it's still cool to piss all over America right? Also focus, Russia may or may not invade and take the Ukraine back by force, and if it does then Russia might get away because of it's nukes. I hope none of this means nuclear hellfire.[/QUOTE] It's really far-fetched to say this is going to turn into a nuclear war. I seriously doubt Russia, or any country with common sense, will use nukes in a war unless the threat is so severe they deemed it necessary to use them.
I wouldn't be surprised if we end up seeing a divided Ukraine by the end of all this, considering the East largely supports the Russians and the West largely supports... well... the West. I don't think the East would resist much to becoming a Russian satellite, but the West would resist it fiercely.
[QUOTE=Fhenexx;44036332]I wouldn't be surprised if we end up seeing a divided Ukraine by the end of all this, considering the East largely supports the Russians and the West largely supports... well... the West. I don't think the East would resist much to becoming a Russian satellite, but the West would resist it fiercely.[/QUOTE] I'm not so sure. Merkel and Putin already had their little meeting about it, and agreed that all parties involved wish to "maintain the sovereign state of Ukraine as a whole".
[QUOTE=mc lovin;44035843]Which is why Afghanistan was such an open an shut war! Oh....[/QUOTE] Which Afghanistan war? Since this thread is concerning the russians, I'm immediately presuming you're talking about the 1980's Afghanistan invasion, in which case you have a point.
[QUOTE=mc lovin;44035748]Not really dumb considering what they could gain from having West Ukraine, warm ports, better farm land, more oil, etc. They'd just have a hard time answering to NATO.[/QUOTE] Russia won't dare to invade Ukraine because the EU, NATO and the US would flip out and at the very least impose crippling trade sanctions on Russia. They might even start a counter-invasion and then shit would get really fucked.
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[QUOTE=mc lovin;44035748]Never underestimate the strength of someone fighting on their home turf. They may have weaker numbers and somewhat lesser trained but often they know the lay of the land much better and can use it to their advantage. Not really dumb considering what they could gain from having West Ukraine, warm ports, better farm land, more oil, etc. They'd just have a hard time answering to NATO.[/QUOTE] NATO would tell russia they have 5 days to fuck off or else they'd roll over russia's ass, then they would russia cannot counter the combined forces of GB,Germany, France, U.S., and the rest of NATO, plus it would bring economic ruin to russia, and putin's power depends on his rich benefactors being rich still something that would rapidly change if russia invaded ukraine since sanctions would happen overnight. [editline]24th February 2014[/editline] gotta say one thing about obama, he's had more wars to deal with than any other president in modern history
They could just be placing their troops in the region in order to facilitate the protection and evacuation of Ethnic Russian back to Russia.
[QUOTE=G3rman;44037774]They could just be placing their troops in the region in order to facilitate the protection and evacuation of Ethnic Russian back to Russia.[/QUOTE] Why would people who've most likely lived there their whole lives suddenly want to go to Russia where they'd have no property of their own?
[QUOTE=Tureis;44037913]Why would people who've most likely lived there their whole lives suddenly want to go to Russia where they'd have no property of their own?[/QUOTE] We've seen it before in previously colonized African country conflicts. Nationals and at risk ethnic minorities (i.e previous White colonists) are evacuated by the military. If nothing else, it would be temporary until the coup dies out.
[QUOTE=Drsalvador;44036634]Which Afghanistan war? Since this thread is concerning the russians, I'm immediately presuming you're talking about the 1980's Afghanistan invasion, in which case you have a point.[/QUOTE] Well I mean the thread is on Russia.....
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;44036158]Becuase it's still cool to piss all over America right? Also focus, Russia may or may not invade and take the Ukraine back by force, and if it does then Russia might get away because of it's nukes. I hope none of this means nuclear hellfire.[/QUOTE] We're not living in the 1800s man. The world is a lot more stable than you think. The single most dramatic thing that can probably happen is Ukraine dividing, and even that sounds borderline crazy-talk.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;44035813]Ukraine even before all the protests wouldn't stand a chance against Russia. Home turf advantage means nothing when half the country supports the invader and lay of the land means nothing when the other side have satellites.[/QUOTE]Uh, hold up guy. Two things wrong with your argument, the first being that half the country would support Russia invading. See even though there's Ukrainians who support joining Russia's sphere of influence they sure as hell wouldn't like the idea of being [i]invaded over it.[/i] I can assure you that a lot more than the pro-EU people wouldn't be okay with Russians suddenly dictating them. Again. As for the other part, that might be true if real-life was like a James Bond movie but it's not, satellite surveillance isn't very good. You need to wait for the reconnaissance satellite (which is not geosynchronous, because that would be retarded) to pass over the target area and then you can use it. This makes satellite surveillance absolutely useless in a tactical situation, which is okay because it was designed as a strategic element anyway. Instead the tactical reconnaissance role is handled by things that can stay put for longer periods of time, like helicopters, drones, and other things. Knowing the lay of the land is [i]extremely[/i] important if you want to evade these assets, and it's vital for a defensive or insurgent force to take advantage of their local terrain knowledge.
[QUOTE=mc lovin;44035748]Never underestimate the strength of someone fighting on their home turf. They may have weaker numbers and somewhat lesser trained but often they know the lay of the land much better and can use it to their advantage. Not really dumb considering what they could gain from having West Ukraine, warm ports, better farm land, more oil, etc. They'd just have a hard time answering to NATO.[/QUOTE] It's a former soviet state with massive ties to Russia I think Russia is well aware of the lay of the land since they've been fighting for control of it for centuries.
Well, I'm not talking about all the Crimea, but just look what is happening in Sevastopol now. They have chosen their own new major, decided to stop paying taxes to the current Ukraine's government and [I]officially asked[/I] Russia for millitary presence. Russian flags are everywhere. It's not even a protest or something, de-facto Sevastopol is an independent city by this moment, and if their little revolution will fail, Ukraine's government (just like any other) won't forget their disloyalty. Literally, they have no way back from this situation.
[QUOTE=G3rman;44037774]They could just be placing their troops in the region in order to facilitate the protection and evacuation of Ethnic Russian back to Russia.[/QUOTE] Are you suggesting evacuating 59% of the region. I don't understand.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;44038254]We're not living in the 1800s man. The world is a lot more stable than you think. The single most dramatic thing that can probably happen is Ukraine dividing, and even that sounds borderline crazy-talk.[/QUOTE] I just don't wanna get killed by a Nuke, and with Russia, while they aren't the USSR anymore, it's still there.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;44039301]I just don't wanna get killed by a Nuke, and with Russia, while they aren't the USSR anymore, it's still there.[/QUOTE] Again, you're being way too dramatic. There's hardly a risk of a land war over a single port city, let alone a nuclear war.
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