NRA expands its role from fight for gun rights to conservative causes
39 replies, posted
[QUOTE]Washington (CNN) -- This week, Coca-Cola and Kraft announced they are pulling their corporate memberships from a conservative group that was behind the spread of "stand your ground" laws like the one highlighted in Florida by the Trayvon Martin case.
The American Legislative Executive Council, also known as ALEC, is getting attention lately for its behind the scenes work pushing conservative legislation in the states.
The group has gotten even more attention since a neighborhood watch volunteer shot and killed unarmed teenager Martin last month.
The man who shot Martin, George Zimmerman, said he acted in self-defense. Police haven't charged him and legal experts say Florida's "stand your ground" law may shield Zimmerman from prosecution.
The National Rifle Association worked with ALEC to spread similar laws that are on the books in at least 25 states.
Those laws grow directly out of the Second Amendment ethos the NRA has championed: "the ethos of individualism, of having a gun, of individuals taking the initiative," said Robert Spitzer, a political scientist at the State University of New York at Cortland and at Cornell University who has studied and written about the NRA for decades.
[B]Less well known is that the NRA has also helped ALEC spread other conservative laws that have nothing to do with gun rights.
ALEC drafts and shares model bills with state legislators to promote corporation-friendly and conservative social policy.
A watchdog group called the Center for Media and Democracy first documented the NRA's role in these bills with ALEC.
An NRA lobbyist, Tara Mica, helped shepherd a model bill that requires voters to show a photo ID at the polls. Many conservatives have pushed voter ID laws to prevent election fraud. Many liberals say these laws inhibit voting by minorities.
Mica also helped preside over ALEC's passage of the model bill that became the basis of Arizona's immigration law. That's the law that requires police to arrest anyone who cannot prove when asked that they entered the United States legally.[/B]
The NRA and Mica wouldn't talk with CNN, so it's not known whether Mica consulted with other NRA officials about the bills on voter ID and immigration.
ALEC also declined to answer questions.
Lisa Graves with the Center for Media and Democracy said the way ALEC works, "We know a bill cannot be approved as a model bill if the private sector members, like the NRA or Walmart, don't want it to become a model bill."
Josh Horwitz heads an advocacy group called the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence. He said the NRA's role with ALEC cements his view that the NRA is really a base for the conservative movement.
"People think the NRA is just a gun group. It's really not." Horwitz said.
Horwitz's group has created a cheeky website, "Meet the NRA.org." It lists the NRA's board of directors, and it has a rolling information bar that features some of their more colorful statements.
[B]The NRA's board includes Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform, and David Keene, former chairman of the American Conservative Union. The board also includes Robert Brown, creator of Soldier of Fortune magazine, and rock guitarist Ted Nugent.[/B]
Spitzer said the NRA has gotten involved in some other non-gun issues.
For instance, he said, the NRA fought hard against campaign finance reform in the days of McCain-Feingold. "They were taking a very much free-enterprise, government-hands-off-the-campaign-process (approach)," he said.
But Spitzer said the NRA will always be primarily about guns and what they stand for in the individualist American mythology.
He said the NRA's work is cut out for it, because gun ownership is on the decline in America.[/QUOTE]
Source: [url]http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/06/politics/nra-alec/index.html[/url]
I fart in their general direction.
Just ewww.
"An NRA lobbyist, Tara Mica, helped shepherd a model bill that requires voters to show a photo ID at the polls. Many conservatives have pushed voter ID laws to prevent election fraud. Many liberals say these laws inhibit voting by minorities."
not sure why this is a bad thing.
The NRA is a great foundation. Like that time they went to Columbine the day after the shooting to stand up for the two kids!
[QUOTE=ac/14;35463965]"An NRA lobbyist, Tara Mica, helped shepherd a model bill that requires voters to show a photo ID at the polls. Many conservatives have pushed voter ID laws to prevent election fraud. Many liberals say these laws inhibit voting by minorities."
not sure why this is a bad thing.[/QUOTE]
Well, in the context of the NRA, it's bad because it has nothing to do with gun rights.
Other than that, I haven't an issue with it either.
[QUOTE=ac/14;35463965]"An NRA lobbyist, Tara Mica, helped shepherd a model bill that requires voters to show a photo ID at the polls. Many conservatives have pushed voter ID laws to prevent election fraud. Many liberals say these laws inhibit voting by minorities."
not sure why this is a bad thing.[/QUOTE]
many people do not have ID's and to prevent them from voting is pretty much unconstitutional.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35464255]many people do not have ID's and to prevent them from voting is pretty much unconstitutional.[/QUOTE]
Then they can go get an ID.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;35464261]Then they can go get an ID.[/QUOTE]
whether they can get an ID or not is quite irrelevant.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35464255]many people do not have ID's and to prevent them from voting is pretty much unconstitutional.[/QUOTE]
If they don't have an ID, then I don't think that they're the kind of person that votes.
You're required to provide proof of address in Canada to prove you live in the voting constituency, and this is done using ID with an address or ID with a name and an addressed piece of mail for first-time voters, and after that Elections Canada sends you a voter ID card each election to bring with you to the polls. Proving you're a legal resident of the place you're voting, as well as ensuring you only vote once is, in my opinion, essential to having an effective and efficient democracy, and providing proof of residence doesn't violate any constitution, as the constitutional rights are guaranteed to residents, and all it's asking you to do is prove you're a resident who is guaranteed the right to vote under the constitution. This prevents not just illegals, but also people from out-of-country from travelling to the locale simply to vote knowing their proof of residency won't be checked, and thus meaning foreigners who don't live there would have a say in who runs a country they don't live in.
[QUOTE=thisispain;35464255]many people do not have ID's and to prevent them from voting is pretty much unconstitutional.[/QUOTE]
Without a state provided ID, I doubt they do much of anything. And most states will already provide a free photo ID for them, so it's pretty much a moot point.
That said, does CNN have any more evidence than reports that a single person employed by the NRA doing this side work? Because the NRA has always said that the 2nd Amendment is all that they care about. And they get ridiculous amounts of money from people for that, without the need to branch out.
[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;35464293]If they don't have an ID, then I don't think that they're the kind of person that votes.[/QUOTE]
yeah nice assumption but not based on anything.
[editline]6th April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;35464306]Proving you're a legal resident of the place you're voting, as well as ensuring you only vote once is, in my opinion, essential to having an effective and efficient democracy[/QUOTE]
the US has voter registration (sans North Dakota) and you can use your social security number when registering.
[QUOTE=ac/14;35463965]not sure why this is a bad thing.[/QUOTE]
It solves a problem that doesn't exist, as the actual rate of voter fraud is basically nil.
[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;35464293]If they don't have an ID, then I don't think that they're the kind of person that votes.[/QUOTE]
And if they're unlikely to vote, might as well make it impossible, eh? That's what a lot of these laws are for - making voter blocks that disagree with a particular group have a harder time of voting.
[QUOTE=Ridge;35464322]Without a state provided ID, I doubt they do much of anything. And most states will already provide a free photo ID for them, so it's pretty much a moot point.[/QUOTE]
Again, make it impossible, because it's such a rampant problem, amirite? Also, my state charges $5 for a state ID, and requires quite a lot of documentation to get that ID (currently 2 proofs of address, and 2 proofs of ID). Voter registration is a tiny card that is free to fill out and doesn't require the same degree of proof.
The problem isn't registration so much as being able to walk into a polling place, claiming to be anybody and getting a ballot. At worst, someone has voted in another person's place. At best, that person shows up as well and their vote is nullified.
[QUOTE=Ridge;35464413]The problem isn't registration so much as being able to walk into a polling place, claiming to be anybody and getting a ballot. At worst, someone has voted in another person's place. At best, that person shows up as well and their vote is nullified.[/QUOTE]
How often does that happen? How often would people forget their ID? How often would people be unable to get an ID? Everything I've ever read, that wasn't paranoid bullshit, reports the voter fraud as being vanishingly small.
I've said it once and I will say it again, the NRA can fuck off.
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;35464426]How often does that happen? How often would people forget their ID? How often would people be unable to get an ID? Everything I've ever read, that wasn't paranoid bullshit, reports the voter fraud as being vanishingly small.[/QUOTE]
There are claims of voter fraud in EVERY election here in the US.
[QUOTE=Ridge;35464484]There are claims of voter fraud in EVERY election here in the US.[/QUOTE]
Claims aren't evidence of anything all, what sort of response is that?! People get pissy and want to explain away them losing as an error in the system.
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;35464426]How often does that happen? How often would people forget their ID? How often would people be unable to get an ID? Everything I've ever read, that wasn't paranoid bullshit, reports the voter fraud as being vanishingly small.[/QUOTE]
I'm going to have to say seldom on all accounts. Everyone is issued a birth certificate when they're born, that's already a piece of ID, bring a letter addressed to your dwelling with you to the polls and there you have ID and proof of address. It's no inconvenience to bring ID with you, and it's always a good idea to have ID with you, and practically everyone has or can easily get some form of ID. While voter fraud occurs seldom, asking for ID and proof of address, neither of which are difficult to get, will make it almost nonexistent. We require ID and proof of address here in Canada, and I don't think I've ever heard of a case of voter fraud, and seldom do you hear a case of someone feeling that they are/were unable to vote, and if you do, it's not because they didn't have proper ID, most recently it's robocalls sending them to the wrong polling station.
[QUOTE=ac/14;35463965]not sure why this is a bad thing.[/QUOTE]
Going by America's history with things like this, t'd have a fundamental flaw that allows them to throw out an ID as void for whatever reason.
[SUB]So yeah, inhibiting minorities[/sub]
[QUOTE=DaCommie1;35464520]I'm going to have to say seldom on all accounts. Everyone is issued a birth certificate when they're born, that's already a piece of ID, bring a letter addressed to your dwelling with you to the polls and there you have ID and proof of address. It's no inconvenience to bring ID with you, and it's always a good idea to have ID with you, and practically everyone has or can easily get some form of ID. While voter fraud occurs seldom, asking for ID and proof of address, neither of which are difficult to get, will make it almost nonexistent. We require ID and proof of address here in Canada, and I don't think I've ever heard of a case of voter fraud, and seldom do you hear a case of someone feeling that they are/were unable to vote, and if you do, it's not because they didn't have proper ID, most recently it's robocalls sending them to the wrong polling station.[/QUOTE]
I don't really have time at the moment to get stats that I actually trust, but the sites I found show something on the order of 1% don't have an ID that would be valid under these sorts of laws.
However, I also found a report that indicates voter fraud is on the order of 0.0006% (7 cases in ~277000 votes) ([URL="http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/case_studies_by_state/wisconsin_2004.html#more"]source[/URL]). That same site also indicates the verified cases would not have been affected by voter ID laws.
Now, if the estimated ID lacking population is 100x smaller, and the voter fraud cases 100x larger, they would be on the same order of magnitude. For now, I think it's unlikely requiring IDs is a positive thing.
[QUOTE=Ridge;35464413]The problem isn't registration so much as being able to walk into a polling place, claiming to be anybody and getting a ballot. At worst, someone has voted in another person's place. At best, that person shows up as well and their vote is nullified.[/QUOTE]
that's not really as probable as you might think. you can't just walk into the voting place and pretend you're someone else.
I really don't see a big deal with voters needing a form of ID.
I know voter fraud is a small thing but why not just have ID?
NRA are nothing but a bunch of lobbyist. One of the worst kind of lobbyists. Putting our national security at risk so they don't have to do some extra checks when buying a gun from a private gun owner.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;35465037][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-uVhhIlPk0[/media]
obv not for the final election, but it happens[/QUOTE]
yeah i don't think that's particularly common.
read that as nba and got really confused
plus this is the same NRA that says you shouldn't need ID for a whole bunch of gun-related things.
and voter fraud is definitely not as common as illegal purchase of weapons.
[QUOTE=ac/14;35463965]"An NRA lobbyist, Tara Mica, helped shepherd a model bill that requires voters to show a photo ID at the polls. Many conservatives have pushed voter ID laws to prevent election fraud. Many liberals say these laws inhibit voting by minorities."
not sure why this is a bad thing.[/QUOTE]I thought providing proof of residency was standard in most Western democracies. Over here they ask for a passport or legally equivalent ID, and a paper sent to you through post from the electoral authority telling you which polling station to use, personal info and whatnot.
This is why most gun owners don't like or trust the NRA. One of the biggest complaints you'll hear are "They charge me a yearly membership fee, and for what? What do they use it for?", well now we know. I stopped paying into the NRA years ago because of that.
Would be infinitely better if the NRA used that money to set up nation wide gun education courses, build permanent ranges and sponsor shooting competitions. THEN I'd happily renew my membership.
Public ranges are rapidly disappearing because people would rather go out to a desert to shoot or because the ranges are getting sued for noise after dumbass McMansion owners build next to a range and decide they want it gone.
Being able to own a gun is great and all, but with gun education available outside of a hunter safety course you could cut down on so many accidents by people who have never owned a gun. And providing a nice public range would give them a safe environment to go practice, hell I'd go to one too because it's hella fun to go hang out with a bunch of people at a range.
And then they should stay out of politics unless those politics threaten our right to own and use firearms. Where were they when the Fed banned the shipment of black powder? That ban KILLED the muzzleloading market, the only way to afford to get powder now is to join a muzzleloading club and buy from them, if you can find a muzzleloading club at all.
[QUOTE=RR_Raptor65;35468059]This is why most gun owners don't like or trust the NRA. One of the biggest complaints you'll hear are "They charge me a yearly membership fee, and for what? What do they use it for?", well now we know. I stopped paying into the NRA years ago because of that.
Would be infinitely better if the NRA used that money to set up nation wide gun education courses, build permanent ranges and sponsor shooting competitions. THEN I'd happily renew my membership.
Public ranges are rapidly disappearing because people would rather go out to a desert to shoot or because the ranges are getting sued for noise after dumbass McMansion owners build next to a range and decide they want it gone.
Being able to own a gun is great and all, but with gun education available outside of a hunter safety course you could cut down on so many accidents by people who have never owned a gun. And providing a nice public range would give them a safe environment to go practice, hell I'd go to one too because it's hella fun to go hang out with a bunch of people at a range.
And then they should stay out of politics unless those politics threaten our right to own and use firearms. Where were they when the Fed banned the shipment of black powder? That ban KILLED the muzzleloading market, the only way to afford to get powder now is to join a muzzleloading club and buy from them, if you can find a muzzleloading club at all.[/QUOTE]
The NRA sponsors several ranges and classes around where I live, and all the NRA guys I know are pretty cool people.
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