[t]https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/georgesoros1205.jpg[/t]
[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/george-soros-hare-crime-donation-money-donald-trump-win-racism-attacks-a7433316.html[/url]
[quote]Billionaire financier George Soros has pledged $10 million from his foundation to help combat the rise in reported hate crimes since Donald Trump won the US presidential election.
The Hungarian-American business magnate will divide his donation between a variety of anti-hate crime initiatives, as more than 700 incidents of harassment have been reported since election day.
...
Due in part to the “incendiary rhetoric” of the president-elect, “dark forces have been awakened” since the election, Mr Soros told the New York Times.
...
“We must do something to push back against what’s happening here,” Mr Soros told the newspaper. He reportedly said he was “deeply troubled” by the rise in incidents of harassment.[/quote]
The trap is set; the bait is pretty special today, a hefty George Soros donation is sure to catch us a few deplorables. Now we sit back, watch them amble up and laugh whilst they embarrass themselves with conspiracy theories garnished with copious amounts of mouth foam.
Genuinely interested to see if anyone is going to try and paint this as some sinister move.
Does it go to law enforcement spending, funds for rallies, or something else?
Doesn't seem like hate crimes are a problem you can solve by throwing money at them.
Then again, $10 million dollars towards a cause never hurts. :v:
Hate crime status is a bigoted legal method... Punishing someone because you did something to someone of another race is classist and racist, and judges already have plenty of tools to increase severity of punishment because something was done out of racism if they deem it so.
My 2 cents really... But im open to being confronted with new perspectives. Did i trigger the trap?
[editline]25th November 2016[/editline]
I mean seriously what even is a 'anti hate crime initiative'?
Can anyone explain to me why Soros is so often included in conspiracy theories? I've read his Wikipedia article and I can't figure out whats so creepy about him aside from fucking around with world economies.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51426509]
I mean seriously what even is a 'anti hate crime initiative'?[/QUOTE]
You fuck your offender to death.
Love crime.
[QUOTE=EditOutJ;51426514]Can anyone explain to me why Soros is so often included in conspiracy theories? I've read his Wikipedia article and I can't figure out whats so creepy about him aside from fucking around with world economies.[/QUOTE]
Well, he's Jewish, and conspiracy theories largely have an antisemitic tinge to them.
[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;51426523]Well, he's Jewish, and conspiracy theories largely have an antisemitic tinge to them.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps because jewish organisations usually are closed and clouded in secrecy, the whole persecution complex and being driven underground by the nazis and those underground structures remaining largely intact this day but with a lot of power probably also dont help...
If you are cool with blanket hate and want to find a group of people to blame for your problems, "the jews" are perfect as a dehumanised enemy... Its sad but true.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51426553]Perhaps because jewish organisations usually are closed and clouded in secrecy, the whole persecution complex and being driven underground by the nazis and those underground structures remaining largely intact this day but with a lot of power probably also dont help...
If you are cool with blanket hate and want to find a group of people to blame for your problems, "the jews" are perfect as a dehumanised enemy... Its sad but true.[/QUOTE]
Wait, what?
What Jewish organizations are clouded in secrecy?
And is Soros a Jewish organization?
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51426553]Perhaps because jewish organisations usually are closed and clouded in secrecy, the whole persecution complex and being driven underground by the nazis and those underground structures remaining largely intact this day but with a lot of power probably also dont help...
If you are cool with blanket hate and want to find a group of people to blame for your problems, "the jews" are perfect as a dehumanised enemy... Its sad but true.[/QUOTE]
wat
What sort of Jewish organizations are you talking about? What underground structures? The persecution complex comes from a few thousand years of being persecuted and still having entire regions of the planet where anti semitism is normal.
[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;51426523]Well, he's Jewish, and conspiracy theories largely have an antisemitic tinge to them.[/QUOTE]
He was also accused by erdogan of doing the coup iirc.
Everyone wants a piece off this guy!
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51426509]Hate crime status is a bigoted legal method... Punishing someone because you did something to someone of another race is classist and racist, and judges already have plenty of tools to increase severity of punishment because something was done out of racism if they deem it so.
My 2 cents really... But im open to being confronted with new perspectives. Did i trigger the trap?[/QUOTE]
It's possible I'm being soft in the head but are you saying it's racist to charge people for hate crimes?
[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;51426523]Well, he's Jewish, and conspiracy theories largely have an antisemitic tinge to them.[/QUOTE]
Soros himself thinks that Jews are in part to blame for antisemitism because of how they behave, and he thinks they need to give up their "tribalness". He's also not a very big fan of Israel and the Israeli government.
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros#Views_on_antisemitism_and_Israel[/url]
He's actually a very intelligent man. The biggest reason why there are so many conspiracies running against him is because he's opposed to conservatism/right-wing thinking: he funds institutes and programs looking into things like climate change and drug reform (which the right is traditionally opposed to), he thinks that restrictions should be placed on people like him who have ridiculous amounts of wealth so they don't end up basically owning the world, he seems to be in favor of social welfare for people that need it, etc. They're the ones (the conservatives and right-wingers, I mean) who drum up the idea that he's terrible and all this other shit-- conveniently ignoring the Kochs, Murdoch, and the likes of them meanwhile-- because he doesn't align with their views.
And he is also a very private person, which doesn't help matters when it comes to conspiracy theorists.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51426509]Hate crime status is a bigoted legal method... Punishing someone because you did something to someone of another race is classist and racist, and judges already have plenty of tools to increase severity of punishment because something was done out of racism if they deem it so.
My 2 cents really... But im open to being confronted with new perspectives. Did i trigger the trap?
[editline]25th November 2016[/editline]
I mean seriously what even is a 'anti hate crime initiative'?[/QUOTE]
no, it is not a legally bigoted method.
the crime you are charged with depends in large part upon your intent, and intent is a central element to the conviction and sentencing of a number of crimes.
under the law of the united states there is a difference between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd degree murder along with involuntary manslaughter - however the end result in each is the same, the death of a person. the facts that need to be proved in each are different, and the sentencing of each is different. each has different implications.
identifying that the central thrust and motivation of an assault is one based upon bigotry - whatever its form - is one that we, as a society, have deemed to be worthy of more condemnation because of a variety of factors. First is that it generally targets an innocent that is typically wholly unrelated to the perpetrator, something that plays equal measure in acts of terrorism or in the event of a serial killer, both of which are viewed as much more egregious than standard premeditated murder. Second, bigotry in all its forms is something worthy of condemnation in its own right - a critical element of American history is moving past and fighting bigotry; it is a critical part of the American experience and identity that we share.
intent is central to the prosecution of criminal acts. it is not alone the only factor, but it is a very, very substantial one.
a great example of the relationship of intent and hate crimes (and one that I have personally worked with on a professional level) is genocide. without intent to destroy a group in whole or in part, you are not committing genocide - just war crimes. There is an immediately noticeable difference between killing at random and killing a directly selected portion of civilians.
to bring it all back to George Soros and the question of what is an "anti hate crime initiative" - nongovernmental organizations that track statistics relating to hate crime (fundamental research into the problem provides a background narrative for which to turn into policy proposals), nongovernmental organizations that engage in outreach so as to prevent the problem before it begins, and providing support to those who potentially have been the victim of a hate crime but are too scared to speak out / file charges in fear of retribution either from the perpetrator or from the state itself, for a variety of reasons - for instance, Donald Trump's massive hateboner for "sanctuary cities", where individuals do not need to fear contact with local police due to their immigration status. Trump wants to force local PD's to detain any and all illegal migrants - regardless of their criminal status outside of immigration - and turn them over to federal immigration officials. The types of programs that Soros' donation will touch are those that provide adequate mechanisms for migrants (whether legal or not) to see justice done.
I have yet to see a good argument against globalism. Borders are silly
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51426489]The trap is set; the bait is pretty special today, a hefty George Soros donation is sure to catch us a few deplorables. [B]Now we sit back, watch them amble up and laugh whilst they embarrass themselves with conspiracy theories garnished with copious amounts of mouth foam[/B].
Genuinely interested to see if anyone is going to try and paint this as some sinister move.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand, are you implying that George Soros doesn't have some sort of ulterior motive in donating millions and millions of dollars to exclusively political causes? I'm not on board the "Soros is controlling the world" theories, but the guy very obviously influences many countries with tons and tons of cash. It's a little naive to just hand wave it all away as some anti-semitic conspiracy imo.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51426509]Hate crime status is a bigoted legal method... Punishing someone because you did something to someone of another race is classist and racist, and judges already have plenty of tools to increase severity of punishment because something was done out of racism if they deem it so.
My 2 cents really... But im open to being confronted with new perspectives. Did i trigger the trap?
[editline]25th November 2016[/editline]
I mean seriously what even is a 'anti hate crime initiative'?[/QUOTE]
Hate crimes aren't always based on race. As previous posters have said, when the severity of a crime is being assessed, the intent matters.
It's actually possible to be charged with a hate crime in my country if you assault someone based on what fashion trends they follow- The law was changed to include certain cliques after an incident where a girl was kicked to death and her boyfriend was severely beaten by a group of men because they "~didn't like goths~".
Getting into a random fight because of drunken rowdiness, getting into a violent altercation with someone you know, and targeting a specific "kind of person" with the entire intent being to harm them are completely different situations.
[QUOTE=dewd11;51427149]I have yet to see a good argument against globalism. Borders are silly[/QUOTE]
Technically the main thrust against globalism is based off of it making local decisions irrelevant to the scheme of things. There are also other legitimate concerns, such as increase in inequity. Most of those opposed to globalism aren't fundamentally opposed to the concept, they're opposed primarily against neoliberal aspects, transnational corporations, and international financial organizations, more an opposition against the corporate concept of globalism than globalism in general.
[QUOTE=ScumBunny;51426847]Wait, what?
What Jewish organizations are clouded in secrecy?
And is Soros a Jewish organization?[/QUOTE]
I was trying to make a sarcastic joke, but w/e i suck at it i guess.
[QUOTE] If you are cool with blanket hate and want to find a group of people to blame for your problems, "the jews" are perfect as a dehumanised enemy... Its sad but true. [/QUOTE]
is 100% true though, the jews always did it for people looking for a scape goat
[QUOTE=srobins;51427160]I don't understand, are you implying that George Soros doesn't have some sort of ulterior motive in donating millions and millions of dollars to exclusively political causes?[/QUOTE]
A rich man is using his wealth to influence politics? Wow that is literally unheard of in this country.
[QUOTE=EditOutJ;51426514]Can anyone explain to me why Soros is so often included in conspiracy theories? I've read his Wikipedia article and I can't figure out whats so creepy about him aside from fucking around with world economies.[/QUOTE]
He funds political organizations that goes against the status quo like FEMEN and BLM. You could could find a lot of leaked initiatives here:
[url]http://soros.dcleaks.com/[/url]
A lot of the animosity aimed at him is not due to his race, but due to how he's part of a collective elite that meddles in all types of governments.
[QUOTE=dewd11;51427149]I have yet to see a good argument against globalism. Borders are silly[/QUOTE]The entire world under one flag sounds a little scary. If that's what you're implying, that is.
[QUOTE=MissingNoGuy;51428409]The entire world under one flag sounds a little scary. If that's what you're implying, that is.[/QUOTE]
No, that's the goal. It sounds great.
[QUOTE=dewd11;51427149]I have yet to see a good argument against globalism. Borders are silly[/QUOTE]
I haven't seen a good one for.
a complete waste of money. would have been much better spent on homeless shelters, soup kitchens, or scientific/medical development.
[QUOTE=space1;51428500]a complete waste of money. would have been much better spent on homeless shelters, soup kitchens, or scientific/medical development.[/QUOTE]
just cuz x is more of a problem than y doesn't mean y isnt a problem worth tackling
[QUOTE=Vasili;51428491]I haven't seen a good one for.[/QUOTE]
Do you really think humanity would have come this far without it? Imagine if every country treated each other the way America and Russia do? No or minimal cooperation, trade, support, etc. Do you really think we would be here today with that attitude? We'd be in perpetual war, and if one war ended another would begin or be ongoing elsewhere, mirroring human behavior throughout our history.
We've come this far due to our trade and cooperation with each other. We're at the most peaceful point in human history.
[editline]25th November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=MissingNoGuy;51428409]The entire world under one flag sounds a little scary. If that's what you're implying, that is.[/QUOTE]
You're mixing up Globalism with World Government. A very common mistake among right wing nationalists from what I've been observing. Globalism is about political and economic trade and cooperation.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51428546]just cuz x is more of a problem than y doesn't mean y isnt a problem worth tackling[/QUOTE]
but it is a complete fucking waste, there's plenty of programs helping homeless or fighting hatecrimes, but the homeless need more food and funding to live.
[QUOTE=dewd11;51428480]No, that's the goal. It sounds great.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;51428539]What exactly is so scary about it, isn't that something we should strive as a species?
I'd rather have us all united instead of divided into smaller groups[/QUOTE]Probably just me, but I can't help but think of Nineteen Eighty-Four when I think of a single large country encompassing part of the globe.
Like, it could be a good thing because nobody knows what a unified country would be like. My only issue worry is that is could end up like a corrupt empire with a scary amount of influence. You can't deny this, it's a real threat with something like that. The solution could possibly be re-writing a lot of laws and how the government works.
Again, there would have to be some extreme changes at the core for something like that to work. I'm not saying we should be divided, but we have to do it in a careful manner.
[QUOTE=niiiiiiiiok;51428592]but it is a complete fucking waste, there's plenty of programs helping homeless or fighting hatecrimes, but the homeless need more food and funding to live.[/QUOTE]
And there are many people that have worse problems than many American homeless people, so fuck the American homeless right? Though I'm not entirely sure what you're saying, are you saying that since programs exist for both already the money should just directly go to them?
By the way, funding homeless to buy them food and whatnot isn't an efficient idea. We already have more than enough food and housing for them (there's literally 4x as many vacant homes than would be needed to feed all of the homeless,) to fully help them you want to push policy that will help those resources not go to waste.
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