• Defying protesters, Ukraine's Yanukovich meets Putin on laying grounds for a new pact
    54 replies, posted
[QUOTE](Reuters) - Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich met Russia's Vladimir Putin on Friday to lay the grounds for a new "strategic partnership" to shore up Ukraine's creaking economy in defiance of protesters back home enraged by his U-turn away from Europe. The leaders met in the Black Sea resort of Sochi in Russia, after Yanukovich flew in for an unannounced stop on his way back from China to map out a new agreement on trade and economic cooperation, a statement on Yanukovich's official website said. Prime Minister Mykola Azarov told journalists Yanukovich would visit Moscow at some point in the future and sign a large number of documents. "We are talking about a major agreement here," Azarov said though he gave no precise details of the outline deal. Yanukovich faces turmoil in Kiev, where protesters are massed on Independence Square and others occupy City Hall, furious at Yanukovich for walking away last month from a landmark pact on trade and integration with the European Union. Police have threatened to crack down harshly to enforce a court order that they disperse. Ukraine needs help to meet $17 billion in debt repayments and Russian gas bills next year. Analysts say Yanukovich's government appears to have struck a bargain with Putin, including for supplies of cheaper Russian gas and possibly credits, in exchange for backing away from the EU deal which would have heralded a historic shift westwards.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/06/us-ukraine-protests-idUSBRE9B41CD20131206[/url]
I think that I can safely speak for at least 4 million Ukranians when I say: Fuck you Yanukovich.
This starts to sound like it could get ugly. I hope it doesn't have to to make him reevaluate his stance.
The opposition is shit, everybody in the Ukrainian government is shit. The best solution is total rebuild of the government in Ukraine.
And then a protest becomes a revolution [img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/rainbow.png[/img]
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;43118966]And then a protest becomes a revolution [img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/rainbow.png[/img][/QUOTE] Revolutions are not a particularly healthy thing, you do understand.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;43118966]And then a protest becomes a revolution [img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/rainbow.png[/img][/QUOTE] uhh no very bad, cause if Putin gets control, he'll send the russian army in. Thousands would be ded.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;43118966]And then a protest becomes a revolution [img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/rainbow.png[/img][/QUOTE] this is the worst outcome possible, if syria is any indication. the best option is for the government to resign.
[QUOTE=Binladen34;43119176]uhh no very bad, cause if Putin gets control, he'll send the russian army in. Thousands would be ded.[/QUOTE] You seriously think the European Union, and NATO will allow that to happen?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;43119195]this is the worst outcome possible, if syria is any indication. the best option is for the government to resign.[/QUOTE] While I agree it hopefully won't come to revolution, your logic here is extremely flawed "it didn't work for Syria, it won't work anywhere else".
[QUOTE=Flash;43119431]You seriously think the European Union, and NATO will allow that to happen?[/QUOTE] You think they would stop them?
[QUOTE=Flash;43119431]You seriously think the European Union, and NATO will allow that to happen?[/QUOTE] If NATO intervened in a civil war that Russia was already intervening in bad things would happen. [editline]8th December 2013[/editline] Just saying
Ukraine had a revolution in 2004 and it went pretty okay
[QUOTE=smurfy;43119475]Ukraine had a revolution in 2004 and it went pretty okay[/QUOTE] That wasn't an actual revolution, just a huge protest. It was still much smaller and less violent than this one. This time people are talking about a real revolution, the civil-war kind of revolution
[QUOTE=Flash;43119431]You seriously think the European Union, and NATO will allow that to happen?[/QUOTE] Georgia.
[QUOTE=Binladen34;43119528]Georgia.[/QUOTE] Georgia is kind of in a different geopolitical situation than Ukraine though.
Yeah good luck trying to get 1 million people to disperse
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;43119445]While I agree it hopefully won't come to revolution, your logic here is extremely flawed "it didn't work for Syria, it won't work anywhere else".[/QUOTE] burma afghanistan central african republic china russia iraq darfur bosnia violent revolutions and rebellions tend to be the least preferable outcome for a country.
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;43119445]While I agree it hopefully won't come to revolution, your logic here is extremely flawed "it didn't work for Syria, it won't work anywhere else".[/QUOTE] It won't. It never does
I honestly don't know why it would turn into a violent revolution? I haven't seen any signs of that at all
It is doubtful that this will turn into a violent revolution, let alone a military conflict. Most likely Yanukovich will wait for the winter to come and the protesters to give up.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;43119639]It won't. It never does[/QUOTE] [img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Declaration_independence.jpg/350px-Declaration_independence.jpg[/img] ? I know it's not really a relevant example today but you should put a disclaimer on your post if you want to make that statement.
[QUOTE=Explosions;43119701][img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Declaration_independence.jpg/350px-Declaration_independence.jpg[/img] ? I know it's not really a relevant example today but you should put a disclaimer on your post if you want to make that statement.[/QUOTE] Alright, it almost never works
[QUOTE=Explosions;43119701][img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Declaration_independence.jpg/350px-Declaration_independence.jpg[/img] ? I know it's not really a relevant example today but you should put a disclaimer on your post if you want to make that statement.[/QUOTE] To me, there's only a few examples of a violent revolution going out of control and super bad. Like the overthrow of the german monarchs and shit, since it led to Hitler. [editline]8th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Laserbeams;43119721]Alright, it almost never works[/QUOTE] And Russia has a super bad history of fucking over countries in their sphere of influence. See 1968 Czechoslovakia, see 1956 Hungary, See 1953 East Germany, See 1956 Poland.
[QUOTE=Explosions;43119701][img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Declaration_independence.jpg/350px-Declaration_independence.jpg[/img] ? I know it's not really a relevant example today but you should put a disclaimer on your post if you want to make that statement.[/QUOTE] that lead to years of warfare and a lot of destruction. also: [img]http://www.mountvernon.org/sites/mountvernon.org/files/images/Whiskey_Insurrection.jpg[/img] ??? [editline]9th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Paul McCartney;43119724]To me, there's only a few examples of a violent revolution going out of control and super bad. Like the overthrow of the german monarchs and shit, since it led to Hitler. [/QUOTE] overthrowing the german monarchs didn't lead to hitler. hitler took power in a republican government.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;43119503]That wasn't an actual revolution, just a huge protest. It was still much smaller and less violent than this one. This time people are talking about a real revolution, the civil-war kind of revolution[/QUOTE] Scary shit man, hope things dont get ugly and people suffer.
The American Revolution "worked" though.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;43119777]that lead to years of warfare and a lot of destruction. also: [img]http://www.mountvernon.org/sites/mountvernon.org/files/images/Whiskey_Insurrection.jpg[/img] ??? [editline]9th December 2013[/editline] overthrowing the german monarchs didn't lead to hitler. hitler took power in a republican government.[/QUOTE] It led to a weak government with a rushed constitution that accepted a bullshit peace treaty when they already had an armistice. Which led to Hitler. Stepping stones.
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;43119861]It led to a weak government with a rushed constitution that accepted a bullshit peace treaty when they already had an armistice. Which led to Hitler. Stepping stones.[/QUOTE] the american revolution lead to: [img]http://www.soldierstudies.org/images/webquest/civil%20war%20soldiers.jpg[/img] in that case.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;43119881]the american revolution lead to: [img]http://www.soldierstudies.org/images/webquest/civil%20war%20soldiers.jpg[/img] in that case.[/QUOTE] I don't disagree. The way that the state and federal government were set up had an inevitable revolution that questioned where the line of state and federal rights were drawn.
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