Laurentian University professor removed for asking students to agree to profane language - Polidicks

[URL]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/persinger-psychology-class-1.3389410[/URL] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/8uWdram.jpg[/IMG] [quote]Known worldwide for his research on the human brain, Michael Persinger also won the TVO Best Lecturer Award in 2007. (Marina von Stackelberg/CBC)[/quote] [quote]A Laurentian University professor in Sudbury, Ont. says he has been stopped from teaching a first-year psychology class after asking students to sign off on his use of vulgar language. Dr. Michael Persinger, a neuroscientist, said he asked students in his introductory psychology course to sign a "Statement of Understanding" during the first lecture. The statement lists a sample of words that might be used during class, and includes the F-word, homophobic slurs and offensive slang for genitalia. "One of my techniques is to expose people to all types of different words," Persinger told CBC News. "Silly words, complex words, emotional words, profane words. Because they influence how you make decisions and how you think." By using words in lectures that cause emotion, Persinger said he can teach students about how that affects the brain's rational processes. But in December, two months into the course, Persinger said he was called into the office of the university provost and told he would no longer be teaching the class. "[I was told my] statement of understanding interfered with the senior administration's idea of the workplace policies, specifically the respectful workplace policies. When I asked for details, I didn't get any." [/quote] [quote]Meanwhile, the Laurentian University Faculty Association said it has filed a grievance against the school for violating Persinger's academic freedom. "[That] includes freedom of teaching, research and discussion, no matter how controversial, without reprisal or censorship," union president Anis Farah wrote in a statement to CBC News. "The discussion of controversial matters is important to help foster independent thinking and expression." For Persinger's part, he said, the university hasn't told him whether he will be able to teach the course again. He said he's trying to change the nature of university lectures, "from a boring prof blathering away in front of students, to making it an integrative classroom where questions are encouraged, and critical thinking is developed." [/quote] The list of words: [URL]http://www.cbc.ca/news2/pdf/persinger_sou.pdf[/URL]

I love how [sp]Politician[/sp] is on the list. Also whoever booted Persigner out of college must be one big fuckin' baby would wouldn't even swear at a fly.

understandable, how would you feel if your daycare provided said "fuck" to your kid?

Fag is the only one I'd have a problem with tho tbh context is always everything. Like when they say fag in the movie "Oh! What a Lovely War" they're talking about cigarettes. Like OK, if he was calling students "fucking faggots" there's not much to defend, but I have my doubts that was happening. I mean, even my Psych professor was really chill and swore in class. She was just a really relaxed speaker.

Hopefully he can get a job somewhere else that isn't attended by a bunch of babies. Barely anything on that list that would give a lot of people pause to use in conversation, and it comes off as very reactionary considering most students use that sort of language all the time casually.

The words seems harmless, but some of the examples given are obviously meant to offend for the purpose of offense. They aren't using offensiveness to better teach any point. That fact makes me doubt his claims of using offensive language in his class constructively.

I had a Sociology teacher who told our class once that free speech is awful because it allows people to say hurtful or inflammatory things. Of course, on the first day of class she had told everyone that if someone doesn't like the fact she swears then they should just leave her class because she likes to swear. And she'd regularly talk shit about people who didn't agree with her. She even called the students in her other class "fucking dumbasses" because they asked questions she felt weren't smart. So you know, hypocrisy is cool. [editline]6th January 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;49472735]understandable, how would you feel if your daycare provided said "fuck" to your kid?[/QUOTE]I'd be wondering why my daycare is hosting college students and calls itself a University.

[quote]He said he's trying to change the nature of university lectures, "from a boring prof blathering away in front of students, to making it an integrative classroom where questions are encouraged, and critical thinking is developed."[/quote] I can get behind that. Also considering this was for a psychology course, I don't understand how those kids are expected to survive the real world if they can't even handle words that make them feel uncomfortable.

[QUOTE=Zet;49472793]I can get behind that. Also considering this was for a psychology course, I don't understand how those kids are expected to survive the real world if they can't even handle words that make them feel uncomfortable.[/QUOTE] That's fine and all, but using profanity has nothing to do with it. I've had absolutely great philosophy profs who engaged their class, and didn't need to use profanity to do it. A person doesn't need to not be able to handle profanity to not want to have that climate around them in a college classroom.

I sort of see where the guy is coming from but its not really cool or funny if you swear every time you speak, it does get tiring and sounds lame

[QUOTE=Zet;49472793]I can get behind that. Also considering this was for a psychology course, I don't understand how those kids are expected to survive the real world if they can't even handle words that make them feel uncomfortable.[/QUOTE]People keep saying this but I think they're missing something important. They don't have to worry about it as much in the real world because the real world is reshaping to fit them, to pamper them. In a sense, they couldn't handle it so they decided to change it.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;49472735]understandable, how would you feel if your daycare provided said "fuck" to your kid?[/QUOTE] I realize that modern day college is actually just day care, but they need to step it up

[QUOTE=sgman91;49472802]That's fine and all, but using profanity has nothing to do with it. I've had absolutely great philosophy profs who engaged their class, and didn't need to use profanity to do it. A person doesn't need to not be able to handle profanity to not want to have that climate around them in a college classroom.[/QUOTE] You might want to read the article that says why he's doing it. If this was something like an early childhood development course, and the teacher was saying some variant of "fuck" every second word, I would probably agree that the profanity isn't helping.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;49472735]understandable, how would you feel if your daycare provided said "fuck" to your kid?[/QUOTE] :speechless: What... you do realize college is for adults and not children.

[QUOTE=sgman91;49472802]That's fine and all, but using profanity has nothing to do with it. I've had absolutely great philosophy profs who engaged their class, and didn't need to use profanity to do it. A person doesn't need to not be able to handle profanity to not want to have that climate around them in a college classroom.[/QUOTE] So does that mean he shouldn't be able to teach it his own way, by purposefully moving students out of their comfort zone, or letting them move out of the socially accepted comfort zone for the purpose of discussion?

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;49472767]I'd be wondering why my daycare is hosting college students and calls itself a University.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=nomad1;49472856]:speechless: What... you do realize college is for adults and not children.[/QUOTE] I suspect that he was making a joke about colleges being glorified daycare, but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

[QUOTE=GÃ©za!;49472863]So does that mean he shouldn't be able to teach it his own way, by purposefully moving students out of their comfort zone, or letting them move out of the socially accepted comfort zone for the purpose of discussion?[/QUOTE]Swearing/Obscenities are such fascinating little subject to discuss. For instance, many people consider "cunt" to be literally the worst of them all, even above words like "fuck" and separate from similar words like "dick". But in my home, "cunt" wasn't really that bad, and was really no different from "dick" or "cock". So I've never had the strong aversion to it that others do. In general, with my upbringing, obscenities weren't seen all that bad, and were in fact fairly casual. To the point it was really just part of the vernacular for us, and they're just common words as a part of language like any other, without any special weight or emphasis.

There was at least a single study that showed that people who swear more tend to be smarter, tho iirc it was only a single study. Still interesting none the less.

lol meanwhile my ethics professor routinely called out politicians as assholes, bastards, fuckwits and much more and people couldn't care less so long as they got credit for the class

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;49472735]understandable, how would you feel if your daycare provided said "fuck" to your kid?[/QUOTE] NOW THATS WHAT I LIKE TO CALL EDGY [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Why Reply? Dumb post" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]

I really have to wonder at the context, though. He's having people consent to usage of the word in class, but the reasoning behind it could make all the difference, and he offers a few peeks of his reasoning in the consent form. [quote] ...I realize that the methods are[B] not intended to embarrass or to demean[/B] but to [B]encourage development of strategies so I will be minimally influenced by unpleasant experiences.[/B]... I understand that the language (examples attached) employed within this course and the examinations (examples attached) will contain frank expressions and creative metaphors [B]that reflect everyday life. This course will focus upon the practical and most important principles of human behavior.[/B]... [B]The course professor promises to teach me the most advanced methods of problem solving so I will not be duped by social-political agendas.[/B][/quote] Note that it is never explicitly stated that he will shout "fag" or "ornicate Gyrus" at the top of his lungs, just that these words will be used in the course in one way or another, ie as a topic for discussion.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;49472891]I suspect that he was making a joke about colleges being glorified daycare, but maybe I'm reading too much into it.[/QUOTE] you're reading the exact right amount into it [QUOTE=Killer monkey;49473128]NOW THATS WHAT I LIKE TO CALL EDGY[/QUOTE] "edgy" has lost all meaning, hasn't it

It really is context that matters for this. For example, saying nigger is perfectly fine if say, you're talking about Nigger Jim from huckleberry finn, since pussyfooting around saying a word can be annoying and can slow down communication. It doesn't seem like the professor intended to use the words in a bad way tho [QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;49473318] "edgy" has lost all meaning, hasn't it[/QUOTE] It's nice that the word to describe people who obnoxiously challenge societal norms and shit is basically the exact opposite

I had a psychology early childhood development professor who swore all the time like a sailor. Fuck was used as any type of word and punctuation. Shit was a common noun. He never swore at any one or demeaned anyone, unless he was talking about politicians. Guy was super chill, funny, and most of all was really intelligent and made you learn. One of the best professors I ever had. He also had his own TV show at one point in Canada, a parenting video like super nanny before that shit got popular, he taught parents how to raise kids correctly with a science backed approach. I don't give a shit if a teacher swears but sometimes a well used expletive can lighten up the classroom and make people interested in a lecture.

My sociology teacher would regularly break out into curses to describe social situations and what not. "Well gee, if Billy's being a bit of a shithead and Jenny's a bit of a cunt, then you can see some hostilities between them" My only issue would be slurs being thrown around inappropriately, but if it is in relation to quotes or describing a time period (I.E ACW/Civil Rights Movement) it'd be fine.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;49472891]I suspect that he was making a joke about colleges being glorified daycare, but maybe I'm reading too much into it.[/QUOTE] A good chunk of college students nowadays act like children, so he's not wrong.

[QUOTE=GÃ©za!;49472863]So does that mean he shouldn't be able to teach it his own way, by purposefully moving students out of their comfort zone, or letting them move out of the socially accepted comfort zone for the purpose of discussion?[/QUOTE] Of course professors shouldn't be able to teach their own way with no exceptions. That's why there are ethics clauses in every employment contract. As per my other post, the examples given on that sheet don't use profanity or offensiveness for anything more than pure offensiveness. Every example could be just as accurately asked without the profanity or offensive answers. They are being used as a type of "comedy hurr" inclusion, nothing more. [editline]6th January 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=bdd458;49473014]There was at least a single study that showed that people who swear more tend to be smarter, tho iirc it was only a single study. Still interesting none the less.[/QUOTE] Also, you're way off. The study showed that people who knew more curse words (not used them) had a larger vocabulary on average, which makes perfect sense because profanity is also part of vocabulary. I know a whole lot of colorful language, but that doesn't mean I ever use them.

[QUOTE=sgman91;49473605]As per my other post, the examples given on that sheet don't use profanity or offensiveness for anything more than pure offensiveness. Every example could be just as accurately asked without the profanity or offensive answers. They are being used as a type of "comedy hurr" inclusion, nothing more. [/QUOTE] I don't think "pure offensiveness" is the goal, but I do highly enjoy when college professors use precise profanity, especially to get attention from otherwise-passive class. Profanity is frequently something that is associated with a specific target, so it gets people's attention and even participation. There is more to just making a point, it must be gotten across. Hell, I had my English professor recite the first stanza of "Fuck tha Police", and considering that the discussion was in regards to Urban Culture, Cultural Narrative, and the fact that most of the class (me included) were a bunch of Freshmen who were lulled by the limits imposed on High School teachers. And all things considered, it was one of the more efficient examples of introducing the concepts. Thereby I disagree with your idea that professors should not be allowed to approach education from a personal standpoint, if they can be sure that it is an appropriate approach.

[QUOTE=bdd458;49472736]Fag is the only one I'd have a problem with tho tbh context is always everything. Like when they say fag in the movie "Oh! What a Lovely War" they're talking about cigarettes. Like OK, if he was calling students "fucking faggots" there's not much to defend, but I have my doubts that was happening. I mean, even my Psych professor was really chill and swore in class. She was just a really relaxed speaker.[/QUOTE] I think it's clear based on his comments that he wasn't asking them to sign a list waiving them of the ability to complain if he started calling people retarded faggots or niggers or something. He said he wanted to use them in a specific context in order to show how people react emotionally and logically when words with special meanings are said, which sounds absolutely fascinating for a psychology class! I'm just reading this like, dude, I would KILL to be able to replace my intro to psychology with THIS, yet people are protesting it and having some apparently famous neuroscientist lecture-genius fired, it's unreal. It's genuinely upsetting to see acadamia be so easily bent out of form by political fads.

Lecturers being casual with their language is alright, nobody here really cares if someone says MS Access is a piece of shit, or calls the NBN chairman a dumbass. I don't even mind slurs if they're used in the right context, though there's a point where it gets a tad excessive, which his examples creep a little into (although they're probably more subtle in his actual classes) Still pretty dumb he just immediately lost his position without warning though, he seems like a pretty good lecturer [editline]asdf[/editline] Reading more into the article, he uses the language to demonstrate emotional responses to it. in a psychology class,that's honestly perfect, it's one thing to describe what people feel when someone formally says the word "tittybong" or casually slips "nigger" into a conversation, but actually saying it lets people experience it, great way to get students' attention too :v: