The Tank and other related AFVs. - General

[B][U]MORE SHIT ON PAGE 2.[/U][/B] Thread Music: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCDfXJSS414[/media] Hello, facepunch, I am here to discuss a brief history of the deadliest instrument in modern conventional warfare: the Tank! So, Mastermaul, what is a tank? I'm bad at definitions, so I'll let wikipedia take this one: [quote]A tank is a tracked, armoured fighting vehicle designed for front-line combat which combines operational mobility and tactical offensive and defensive capabilities.[/quote] Why are they called "tanks", anyways? To maintain secrecy and give enemy spies a fake lead, they were officially produced as "water carriers". This somehow lead to the name "tank." Right. Now then. [U]Preface: From stalemate to "Landships" to Little Willie.[/U] As you all know, back around the later half of the 1910s there was a little hubub in Europe called [I]The First World War[/I]. You probably also know about the terrible state of trench warfare that swept the Western Front due to another wonderfully terrifying invention, the machine gun. One day some incredibly smart individual noticed "Golly, this sure sucks some mighty balls." The Allied Governments caught wind of this and decided to put down the tea and baguettes and try to find a way to break the deadlock. The result was the Landships Committee, a Committee formed on half of the British [B]navy[/B] to design what they thought would be a literal land-ship, the kind you might find in the short story [I]Land Ironclads[/I] by H.G. Wells. While this would have been mind-blowingly awesome, what they ended up with was this: [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4a/Little_Willie.jpg/800px-Little_Willie.jpg[/img] Ladies and Gentlemen, say hello to Little Willie, the world's first tank. This device had the EXTREME top speed of over TWO ENTIRE MILES PER HOUR. Yes, this thing scared the shit out of people. Of course, only one was ever built. In the next segment we will discuss the tanks used in actual combat. [U]Part 1: The Great War.[/U] [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/British_Mark_I_male_tank_Somme_25_September_1916.jpg[/img] This is a male Tank MK.I, the first tank to see combat service. Now you might be saying, "Male? Tanks don't have tallywackers, silly." Well, 'male' tanks were tanks armed with cannons and machine guns, while 'female' tanks were armed exclusively with machine guns. A few more things about the tank above. The triangular structure on the roof was normally covered with something so that grenades would tumble down the sides away from the tank. The wheels at the back of the tank were supposedly supposed to help with steering, but these were abandoned in later models. Now onto actual history. Tanks were first used in the Battle of the Somme during 1916. The majority became stuck in mud, broke down, or were destroyed by explosives. They scared the Germans shitless. Here was a weapon never used in combat before. A weapon that the mighty machine gun couldn't touch, a weapon that lumbered unharmed toward your trench while you sat back and cried like a little girl. The Germans were virtually powerless against the ones that did make it across no man's land. They literally hoped out of their trenches and ran as fast as they could away from these iron monsters. That of course, wasn't hard, as they moved at a top speed of 4 mp/h. The true birth of armored warfare was said to take place in the Battle of Cambrai in 1917. Here, the tank was used in the first combined arms operation. Artillery swept in front of the infantry like a curtain of iron rain while they marched just out of harms reach. Tanks lumbered behind them, with more infantry behind them still. Planes swept through the air in one giant offensive. This eventually meant nothing, as the Germans took back almost every bit of the gained land. By now you may be wondering, "Mastermaul, surely the Germans developed a tank of their own?" Why, you would be correct! Meet the A7V Sturmpanzer-kraftwagen: [img]http://www.waffenhq.de/panzer/a7v_05.jpg[/img] It's a fucking house on tank treads. It had an 18 man crew. The A7V was the only tank actually produced by the Germans, although many British and French tanks were also captured. We will get into one of the French tanks shortly. Twenty-one A7Vs were produced. That's it. The Germans were so deep in the shitter by this time in the war they couldn't produce the one-hundred tanks that were ordered. The tank had the good fortune to be the loser of the world's first tank on tank battle, which took place in April 1918 against three British MK IVs. The fact that the tank was an even bigger piece of shit than the British Marks probably didn't help either. Now we will discuss the most revolutionary and longest lasting design of WWI: the French Renault FT-17. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/FT-17-argonne-1918.gif[/img] Say! A tank that actually looks like a TANK. Well, the FT-17 is considered the first of the "modern" tank designs, mainly for three reasons. 1. The turret is top-mounted and capable of full 360 degree rotation. 2. The engine is in the back. 3. The driver is in the front. These are the design basics behind all modern day MBTs. Besides the revolutionary design, the FT-17 had a extremely long lifespan. To put it into perspective, let's take a look at the list of all countries to use this baby courtesy of Wikipedia. [quote]Afghanistan, Belgium, Brazil, the Republic of China, Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Finland, France, the German Empire, Nazi Germany, Iran, Japan, Lithuania, the Netherlands, Poland, Romania, the Russian White movement, the Soviet Union, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey,Norway, the United States and the Kingdom of Yugoslavia.[/quote] Yes, the FT-17 was used by Nazi Germany. They captured these from the frenchies at the start of WWII and went on to use them for guarding military compounds. They even took the turrets out and put them in static bunkers for defense.

WWI tanks look weird. The pinnacle of tank styling was the T-34. [img]http://www.saunalahti.fi/~ejuhola/7.62/t34-85a.jpg[/img] Prove me wrong. Also, good thread. Interesting how in both WWI and WWII, when the Germans finally got the good shit, they were too deep in shit to get shit. Do you know if the FT-17 holds the record for fastest-turning tank?

[img]http://www.normandybattlefields.com/mapphotos/25-tiger_tank.jpg[/img] CLassic Tiger Tank

Nice thread, just tanks aren't the best conventional modern weapon, Jets are.

Should I do inter-war, failed WWI designs, or WWII next.

Newest awesome looking tanks, please?

[QUOTE=mastermaul;20914158]Should I do inter-war, failed WWI designs, or WWII next.[/QUOTE] WWII. And the crazy prototypes that everyone laughed at. Like the late Tsarist tanks.

Cool.

[img]http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/albums/black_and_white/german_panther_tank.jpg[/img] That is one sexy piece of death-dealing machinery.

Failed designs is always intresting to read. I've looked up many of them.

[img]http://strangevehicles.greyfalcon.us/mauspic/ratte100.jpg[/img] Do I win?

Only the tankette competition.. [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/P1500_Monster.gif[/IMG]

WW1 tanks are creepy.

WWI techonological style is creepy.

I believe the wheels on the back of the tank, which is pictured in the OP, were there so it did not topple over when going over mounds and hills and stuff.

Maybe I'll contribute some. The KV-IV "Behemoth," a.k.a. "Stalin's Orchestra" [img]http://xmb.stuffucanuse.com/xmb/viewthread.php?action=attachment&tid=4693&pid=13557[/img] [quote]In July 1941, Stalin learned of a single KV-II that had held off the entire 6th Panzer Division for more than a day. With the incredible success of this single tank, Stalin ordered a crash program for a land battleship based on the KV-II design. It was to have three turrets and be very heavily armed and armored and able to defend itself against all types of attack. The project was given to the joint team of Kotin/Barkov. When the designers complained to Stalin that the insistence on three turrets made the vehicle too long to have an acceptable turning radius, Stalin's answer was: "It doesn't need to turn, it will drive straight to Berlin." The final design became known as the KV-VI "Behemoth". The KV-VI was a multi-turreted tank using components of the KV-I and II, Bt-5, T-60, and T-38. The use of existing tank designs was necessary because of pressure from Stalin and the strains put on Soviet industry by the German invasion. Because of its massive weight, the tank was equipped with wading devices permitting it to traverse rivers up to 9 feet deep The team also designed a removable observation tower that could be used to direct the fire of the howitzers and rockets while the tank was in a turret down position. Operational History The first prototype was completed in December 1941 and was rushed into the defense of Moscow. In its first action during a dense winter fog, the rear turret accidentally fired into the center turret. The resulting explosion completely destroyed the vehicle. The second prototype was completed in January 1942, and was sent to the Leningrad front. This one had indicators installed to show whe another turret was in the line of fire. In its initial attack on the Germans, the tank broke in half when crossing a ravine. A spark ignited the leaking flamethrower fuel and the resulting explosion completely destroyed the vehicle. The third prototype, shown here, had a reinforced hull and was also sent to the Leningrad front in early 1942. It did manage to shoot down three German aircraft. In its first ground engagement, the KV-VI was firing on German positions when coincidentally all of the guns fired from the 3 O'Clock position a the same time. The tremendous recoil tipped the tank into a ditch and the severe jostling set off the 152mm ammunition, which completely destroyed the vehicle. After these failures, Stalin cancelled the project, and many of the design team members spent the rest of their lives in the Gulags of Sibera. The KV-VI was nicknamed "Stalin's Orchestra" by the few Germans that encountered it because of the variety of weapons it deployed. KV-VI Specifications Crew: 15 men and one Commissar Length: 51 feet, 4 inches Height: 15 feet, 3 inches Width: 10 feet, 10 inches Height/tower raised: 37 feet, 8 inches Weight: 138 tons Engine: 3 X V-2 at 600 horsepower each Max Speed: 13 mph Max Range: 98 miles road; 43 miles cross country Armor: 160mm maximum; 7mm minimum Armament: 2 X 152mm; 2 X 76.2mm; 1 X 45mm; 2 X 12.7mm DShK; 2 X 7.62mm Maxim; 14 X 7.62mm DT; 16 X BM-13 Rockets; 2 X Model 1933 Flamethrowers[/quote] TL:DR: During WW2, the Russians built an actual land battleship, that failed miserably both in design and application.

[quote]The first prototype was completed in December 1941 and was rushed into the defense of Moscow. In its first action during a dense winter fog, the rear turret accidentally fired into the center turret. The resulting explosion completely destroyed the vehicle. The second prototype was completed in January 1942, and was sent to the Leningrad front. This one had indicators installed to show whe another turret was in the line of fire. In its initial attack on the Germans, the tank broke in half when crossing a ravine. A spark ignited the leaking flamethrower fuel and the resulting explosion completely destroyed the vehicle. The third prototype, shown here, had a reinforced hull and was also sent to the Leningrad front in early 1942. It did manage to shoot down three German aircraft. In its first ground engagement, the KV-VI was firing on German positions when coincidentally all of the guns fired from the 3 O'Clock position a the same time. The tremendous recoil tipped the tank into a ditch and the severe jostling set off the 152mm ammunition, which completely destroyed the vehicle.[/quote] That made me laugh quite a lot.

I'm grateful for the Soviets. If it hadn't been for them and their development of armour technology, post-war everyone would have continued with the idea of 'let's see who can build the biggest tank with the thickest armour'. The German Monster was just ridiculous...

[QUOTE=Madman_Andre;20914396]Maybe I'll contribute some. The KV-IV "Behemoth," a.k.a. "Stalin's Orchestra" [IMG]http://xmb.stuffucanuse.com/xmb/viewthread.php?action=attachment&tid=4693&pid=13557[/IMG] TL:DR: During WW2, the Russians built an actual land battleship, that failed miserably both in design and application.[/QUOTE] Those shot each other in friendly firelols

Nice read 'ol bean can't wait for continuation!

[QUOTE=Madman_Andre;20914396]Maybe I'll contribute some. The KV-IV "Behemoth," a.k.a. "Stalin's Orchestra" [img]http://xmb.stuffucanuse.com/xmb/viewthread.php?action=attachment&tid=4693&pid=13557[/img] TL:DR: During WW2, the Russians built an actual land battleship, that failed miserably both in design and application.[/QUOTE] Whoa...never knew that thing existed...I want one And wheres all the 13 year olds going "OMG teh M1A1/M1A1 Abrams is the best tank evar!"

When I was visiting France a few years ago I got to go to a tank museum in Saumur ([url]http://www.peachmountain.com/5star/Museum_Tanks_Musee_des_Blindes_Saumur.asp[/url]). They had everything; German, American, British, Soviet, literally [i]tonnes[/i] of tanks. Took lots of pictures and a bit of video, anyone going to France should definitely look into it. Me taking a peek under the armor skirt of a Panzer IV :swoon: - [img]http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/9053/tank11.png[/img]

Thanks are awesome also this museum in Brussels, it has quite some tanks... [url]http://www.airmuseum.be/360view/360viewnormal.html[/url]

AFV's are awesome to look at. Even better to ride in: [img]http://www.grossdeutschland.org/images/VictoryShow2009/gdtroopsafterbattlehitchingaliftinhalftrack.jpg[/img]

Where's the Russain tank that has a flame thrower onto it?

I would like some more modern information. Challenger vs. Abrams etc.

I am a bit of a Tiger I fanboy. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-299-1805-12%2C_Nordfrankreich%2C_Panzer_VI_%28Tiger_I%29.jpg[/img]

War would have been boring without tanks.

[IMG]http://www.odms-club.com/convention/PantherTankColor.jpg[/IMG] Best tank of the Second World War, hands down. Beautiful piece of engineering.

[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Tsar_tank.jpg[/IMG] Look at that motherfucker. Yes, that's a real tank. The Russian "Tsar" tank of WWI. It didn't work for shit. [IMG]http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/randall/MilitaryVehicles/MVBall2.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/randall/MilitaryVehicles/MVBall1.jpg[/IMG] "Landkresuer" tank proposed by the Germans, mid WWII. [IMG]http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/wong/penisex/tank1.jpg[/IMG] Yeah, not sure what the fuck the germans were thinking. [IMG]http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/randall/MilitaryVehicles/MVScooter2.jpg[/IMG] Not so much a tank, just a... well, it's a moped with a fucking cannon in it. Used by the French (:v:) mid WWII. Yes, they actually killed shit with these abominations.