Immigrants Do Not Increase Crime, Research Shows - Polidicks

[quote] In his [URL="http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-07-21/read-donald-trumps-nomination-acceptance-speech-at-the-republican-convention"]acceptance speech[/URL] at the Republican National Convention, Trump named victims who were reportedly killed by undocumented immigrants and said: “They are being released by the tens of thousands into our communities with no regard for the impact on public safety or resources…We are going to build a great border wall to stop illegal immigration, to stop the gangs and the violence, and to stop the drugs from pouring into our communities.” Now as president, he has signed executive orders that [URL="https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/27/executive-order-protecting-nation-foreign-terrorist-entry-united-states"]restrict entry[/URL] of immigrants from seven countries into the U.S. and authorize the construction of [URL="https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/25/executive-order-border-security-and-immigration-enforcement-improvements"]a wall[/URL] along the U.S. border with Mexico. He also signed an order to [URL="https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/25/presidential-executive-order-enhancing-public-safety-interior-united"]prioritize[/URL] the removal of “criminal aliens” and withhold federal funding from “sanctuary cities.” But, what does research say about how immigration impacts crime in U.S. communities? We turned to our experts for answers.[/quote] [url]https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/immigrants-do-not-increase-crime-research-shows/?WT.mc_id=SA_FB_POLE_NEWS[/url]

most of the fear mongering seems to come from communities with relatively low illegal immigrants to begin with even an act of terrorism is unlikely to happen in a rural areas, yet the overwhelming consensus in most urban and large metropolitan areas is an accepting attitude of immigrants both legal and illegal these peoples jobs nor personal security is at risk, so why are they the most vocal?? It can only be attributed to bigotry and manipulation by politicians to get these people to be even further entrenched in their beliefs... it's truly sick

Not like it matters, these people never listen to reports, let alone facts anyway.

[QUOTE=lum1naire;51805736]most of the fear mongering seems to come from communities with relatively low illegal immigrants to begin with even an act of terrorism is unlikely to happen in a rural areas, yet the overwhelming consensus in most urban and large metropolitan areas is an accepting attitude of immigrants both legal and illegal these peoples jobs nor personal security is at risk, so why are they the most vocal?? It can only be attributed to bigotry and manipulation by politicians to get these people to be even further entrenched in their beliefs... it's truly sick[/QUOTE] It follows a similar pattern of xenophobic demonization, to be honest. For children, one of the first things you're taught is "stranger danger", when research suggests that acts of rape or assault are more likely to happen from someone you already know, like a neighbor or uncle. A lot of immigrants (undocumented or documented) out there are just likely going to keep their heads down, follow the law and not do anything to jeopardize their status and livelihood in their host country. It's for this reason that Trump's recent act of banning travel even for Green Card holders was such a pure "wtf" move - you have to go through a lot of extensive documentation and validation and a lot of money to essentially prove that you're on the up and up with the government and aren't a threat, but all of that was essentially negated on the basis of your previous nationality and more importantly, your religion. I'm currently undergoing the immigration process for Canada myself - I've had to produce documentation to show every aspect of my life for the past *ten years*. Like hell am I going to go there and fuck it all up for myself by doing something stupid and committing a crime.

The word "illegal" only pops up in the article in a quote from Donald Trump. Does the study include cities housing illegal immigrants?

[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51807373]The word "illegal" only pops up in the article in a quote from Donald Trump. Does the study include cities housing illegal immigrants?[/QUOTE] You are very desperate to poke holes in a study you didn't read. [Quote]ACROSS 200 METROPOLITAN AREAS[/quote] No shit they do? Do you think criminologists would just exempt those from data when they're studying the effects of illegal immigration and crime? I guess these people who studied 8 years minimum to earn a degree and publish peer reviewed studies made a such a silly mistake, derp!

Yah, I be curious if they just ditched out illegal immigration altogether.

[QUOTE=Tudd;51807384]Yah, I be curious if they just ditched out illegal immigration altogether.[/QUOTE] Trump supporter increasingly desperate to be right in the face of facts disproving his God Emperor's words

[QUOTE=Aldawolf;51807390]Trump supporter increasingly desperate to be right in the face of facts disproving his God Emperor's words[/QUOTE] I'm asking a question because I only care about stopping illegal immigration. I welcome immigrants who want to assimilate to American life.

[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51807397]I'm asking a question because I only care about stopping illegal immigration. I welcome immigrants who want to assimilate to American life.[/QUOTE] Same, plus it is a important factor just from a non-partisan standpoint.

[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51807397]I'm asking a question because I only care about stopping illegal immigration. I welcome immigrants who want to assimilate to American life.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.naid.ucla.edu/uploads/4/2/1/9/4219226/b46.pdf[/url] [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/illegal-immigrants-are-bolstering-social-security-with-billions.html[/url] [url]https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/110th-congress-2007-2008/reports/12-6-immigration.pdf[/url] [url]http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5312900[/url] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States#cite_note-39[/url] Those darn illegal immigrants, paying taxes and taking almost nothing in return from government subsidies, bolstering industries, and giving economic growth! Illegal immigration isn't as big as a problem as you think it is. They give more in taxes than what we'd be spending on a stupid wall, that's for sure.

[QUOTE=Hogie bear;51805737]Not like it matters, these people never listen to reports, let alone facts anyway.[/QUOTE] Its the fucking tabloid press that causes this shit, whipping up hysteria about immigration to effectively get them to vote for the right wing party that suits their interests. Immigration isn't an issue, its a weapon the newspapers use.

[QUOTE=lum1naire;51805736]these peoples jobs nor personal security is at risk, so why are they the most vocal?? It can only be attributed to bigotry and manipulation by politicians to get these people to be even further entrenched in their beliefs... it's truly sick[/QUOTE] They're uneducated and don't come into contact with many people who aren't like them.

For a little more about crime from illegals, take a look at this. [URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/10/03/sanctuary-cities-do-not-experience-an-increase-in-crime/[/URL] The study in OP from what I can tell takes in immigration as a whole, both illegals and legal. Right in the beginning it does also call the "illegal immigration causes high crime" a myth as well. One interesting bit too in the part that's not paywalled is that illegal immigrants do have a tendency to get involved in a certain crime aaand..... it's a result of our fucking retarded drug war. GJ

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51807764]For a little more about crime from illegals, take a look at this. [URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/10/03/sanctuary-cities-do-not-experience-an-increase-in-crime/[/URL] The study in OP from what I can tell takes in immigration as a whole, both illegals and legal. Right in the beginning it does also call the "illegal immigration causes high crime" a myth as well. One interesting bit too in the part that's not paywalled is that illegal immigrants do have a tendency to get involved in a certain crime aaand..... [B]it's a result of our fucking retarded drug war. GJ[/B][/QUOTE] So basically, what everyone who worries about border security talks about. The reality is that we need to reform are immigration policies to make it easier for workers to come here(as well as deport those which are bad hombres). Deal with the trafficking of humans, arms, and other contraband much, much more harshly. Stop causing a braindrain in Latin America by taking all of their bright minds away. Best way to do this would be helping to invest into fair-wage jobs in Latin America. We also should reorganize NAFTA, enforcing regulations of a minimum wage across all memberstates. Without this, we run the risk of exploitation.

[QUOTE=Hogie bear;51805737]Not like it matters, these people never listen to reports, let alone facts anyway.[/QUOTE] Just want to point out how absolutely tired I am of seeing this kind of post. There are people so deep, on either side, that none will listen to facts that go against their beliefs.

[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51807397]I'm asking a question because I only care about stopping illegal immigration. I welcome immigrants who want to assimilate to American life.[/QUOTE] You might want to rethink your political position then. You might be closer to center than you think. Conservatives only care about illegal immigrants so far as it allows them to curb legal immigration as well.

[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51807397]I'm asking a question because I only care about stopping illegal immigration. I welcome immigrants who want to assimilate to American life.[/QUOTE] who says illegal immigrants don't want to assimilate too?

-snip-

[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51807397]I'm asking a question because I only care about stopping illegal immigration. I welcome immigrants who want to assimilate to American life.[/QUOTE] Illegal immigrants cause less crime than Americans per capita.

What about all those acts of terror in Europe then...?

[QUOTE=Knurr;51808432]What about all those acts of terror in Europe then...?[/QUOTE] This isn't about Europe, where the type of people who'd be terrorists can easily travel over to another country.

[QUOTE=Knurr;51808432]What about all those acts of terror in Europe then...?[/QUOTE] Still less, you fell for the exact 'feels before reals' that the US Republican party is all about. Even if you consider the people dead in terrorist attacks, they're still a fucktardedly tiny minority, they just get a lot more media coverage because stories like that sell better. And furthermore, most of THOSE attacks in Europe are also usually by radicalized locals, not immigrants, so the point still stands.

Can you really generalize them all and say they cause less crimes when there are HUGE difference between the different groups?

[QUOTE=Firewarrior;51808582]Can you really generalize them all and say they cause less crimes when there are HUGE difference between the different groups?[/QUOTE] yes you can generalize them because it's not a matter of personality or opinion, just fact and statistics. Statistically speaking, illegal immigrants are less prone to violent crime and drug crime than American nationals, and they are underrepresented in the prison system compared to them as a percentage of the entire population. I'm almost completely sure this also applies to Europe, but I have only seen the research in the US's case.

[QUOTE=bunguer;51808336]Why are we talking about two different things and everyone here is acting as if they were the same? One thing is illegal immigrants and another is legal immigrants, this news article makes no sense and these comments on this thread are even worse - just look at the studies, they are talking about legal immigrants. To mix the two is to be dishonest, I don't understand why I even have to defend the idiot that Trump is but ffs this is not being "scientific". Trump's own wife is an immigrant.[/QUOTE] I think another problem is assuming they're both [i]completely[/i] different, that only someone with evil malicious intentions would enter a country illegally.

There no such thing as an illegal immigrant, immigrant already implies legality you're thinking of illegal aliens

[QUOTE=Aldawolf;51807390]Trump supporter increasingly desperate to be right in the face of facts disproving his God Emperor's words[/QUOTE] Hold up, [I]legal[/I] immigrants are vetted before they can settle here. It's not like we just let anybody in, so it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that the immigrant population as a whole is less criminal, better-educated, and more productive than native-born Americans. We only take people who seem like they can make a living for themselves. But it's pure dishonesty to take studies about legal immigrants and segue into using that data to make claims about illegal immigrants. So, as for this: [QUOTE=EcksDee;51808650]Statistically speaking, illegal immigrants are less prone to violent crime and drug crime than American nationals, and they are underrepresented in the prison system compared to them as a percentage of the entire population.[/QUOTE] The last time I decided to look up the stats myself, incredibly I couldn't find any reputable studies that assessed the criminality of just illegal immigrants. So I consulted some federal reports. According to [URL="http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-187"]GAO stats[/URL], the number of illegal immigrants currently in federal prison is 55,000. The total federal prison population is [URL="https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/population_statistics.jsp"]189,000[/URL]. Illegal immigrants account for almost a [I]third[/I] of all federal prisoners, while accounting for approximately 1/30 of the American population. They're not under-represented, they're over-represented in federal prisons by a factor of [B]eight[/B]. Of the [URL="https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpus15.pdf"]just under two million[/URL] inmates in state prisons and local jails, about 296,000 are illegal immigrants, making illegal immigrants over-represented by a factor of [B]five[/B]. While I'm sure there's substantial bias in the legal system against illegal immigrants (especially for minor crimes like drug possession, where citizens get community service while illegal immigrants get jail time), I strongly doubt it accounts for the massive difference in incarceration rates for things like violent felonies. Do they contribute more to social programs than they take out- yes, absolutely, and the claims about illegal immigrants being a drain on our social infrastructure are largely overblown. There are issues that don't get talked about much, like illegal immigrants filing tax returns under the SSNs of citizens, or injuries and deaths caused by illegal immigrants driving, or the degradation of working conditions for citizens having to compete with illegal immigrants, but all of those are fairly minor and unrelated to the debunked claims about illegal immigrants draining welfare programs and the like. But this 'illegal immigrants don't cause more crime, this study about legal immigrants proves it' trend has got to stop. Even if it turns out that for whatever reason my assessment above is incorrect, that has to be demonstrated with direct studies of the relevant populations, not inferences about sanctuary cities or extrapolations from legal immigrants. Assuming the politically-convenient conclusion from irrelevant data is every bit as 'feels before reals' as the unfounded right-wing attitude towards Muslim immigrants. I honestly, truly welcome the opportunity to be proven wrong, but the fact that so many studies and articles conflate legal and illegal immigrants to make the claim that illegal immigrants don't cause crime (when data to the contrary is readily available) makes me suspect that my inference is correct.

[QUOTE=catbarf;51809212]Hold up, [I]legal[/I] immigrants are vetted before they can settle here. It's not like we just let anybody in, so it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that the immigrant population as a whole is less criminal, better-educated, and more productive than native-born Americans. We only take people who seem like they can make a living for themselves. But it's pure dishonesty to take studies about legal immigrants and segue into using that data to make claims about illegal immigrants. So, as for this: The last time I decided to look up the stats myself, incredibly I couldn't find any reputable studies that assessed the criminality of just illegal immigrants. So I consulted some federal reports. According to [URL="http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-187"]GAO stats[/URL], the number of illegal immigrants currently in federal prison is 55,000. The total federal prison population is [URL="https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/population_statistics.jsp"]189,000[/URL]. Illegal immigrants account for almost a [I]third[/I] of all federal prisoners, while accounting for approximately 1/30 of the American population. They're not under-represented, they're over-represented in federal prisons by a factor of [B]eight[/B]. Of the [URL="https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpus15.pdf"]just under two million[/URL] inmates in state prisons and local jails, about 296,000 are illegal immigrants, making illegal immigrants over-represented by a factor of [B]five[/B]. While I'm sure there's substantial bias in the legal system against illegal immigrants (especially for minor crimes like drug possession, where citizens get community service while illegal immigrants get jail time), I strongly doubt it accounts for the massive difference in incarceration rates for things like violent felonies. Do they contribute more to social programs than they take out- yes, absolutely, and the claims about illegal immigrants being a drain on our social infrastructure are largely overblown. There are issues that don't get talked about much, like illegal immigrants filing tax returns under the SSNs of citizens, or injuries and deaths caused by illegal immigrants driving, or the degradation of working conditions for citizens having to compete with illegal immigrants, but all of those are fairly minor and unrelated to the debunked claims about illegal immigrants draining welfare programs and the like. But this 'illegal immigrants don't cause more crime, this study about legal immigrants proves it' trend has got to stop. Even if it turns out that for whatever reason my assessment above is incorrect, that has to be demonstrated with direct studies of the relevant populations, not inferences about sanctuary cities or extrapolations from legal immigrants. Assuming the politically-convenient conclusion from irrelevant data is every bit as 'feels before reals' as the unfounded right-wing attitude towards Muslim immigrants. I honestly, truly welcome the opportunity to be proven wrong, but the fact that so many studies and articles conflate legal and illegal immigrants to make the claim that illegal immigrants don't cause crime (when data to the contrary is readily available) makes me suspect that my inference is correct.[/QUOTE] The GAO paper includes all immigrants in their definition of "criminal alien", not just illegal ones, so that inflates the number and means it can't be compared to the general population at large. So really the comparison is around 330 000 noncitizens in the entire prison system of the USA for 25.3 million noncitizens in the US total, which means that (I'm ballparking) just over 12% of the prison population represents between 8-9% of the general population. Which, true, is overrepresented, however let me commit a fallacy and move my goalposts since you technically want me to. [QUOTE]While I'm sure there's substantial bias in the legal system against illegal immigrants (especially for minor crimes like drug possession, where citizens get community service while illegal immigrants get jail time), I strongly doubt it accounts for the massive difference in incarceration rates for things like violent felonies.[/QUOTE] Indeed it does account for it! From [B]the very same paper you're quoting, the GAO stats[/B] [img]http://i.imgur.com/iGa6Sox.png[/img] So you can basically cut the number in half if you want a representation of violent offenders. Granted, there's a lot of overlap there, but the point remains. I did move the goalposts though and I'll apologize for that. Indeed the population of criminal aliens does overrepresent the population, however the REASON for that is because around half, if not more of them are in prison because they were caught as illegals, not because they did violent crime or anything like that. My bad.

I actually did a high school paper on this. Crime rate isn't affected but rather the nature of crimes. I.E going from blue collar to theft or vice versa. I would say it is indicative that the culture changes qualitatively than quantitatively.