Rumor: Microsoft may announce native Android app/APK support on Windows 10 devices at Build 2015, in - Polidicks

[url]https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/android/3174/windows-android[/url] [quote=Paul Thurrott]Microsoft will most likely announce this week that it will enable customers to run Android apps on their Windows 10 phones, tablets and PCs. The timing ostensibly makes sense, as the software giant’s Build conference, held this week in San Francisco, targets developers. But I wonder what message this change will send to developers and users, especially at a time when the company is also pushing a universal app strategy centered on Windows. This is the opposite of what I wanted. Indeed, when Microsoft first started talking up the notion of universal apps that would run across its various platforms—Windows, Windows Phone, Xbox One, Internet of Things embedded devices, Surface Hub, and HoloLens—I opined that truly “universal” apps would in fact also run on competing devices as well. At the time, I figured this would mean Android primary, since that platform is open and Microsoft has already starting building support for Android into Visual Studio. (iOS is a harder nut to crack because Apple locks down the platform.) Letting universal apps run on Android would open up the market to Windows-focused developers and let me leverage their existing skills and knowledge. It makes sense. And I still expect to see this happen, if not in the current generation of universal apps, then in the near future.[/quote]

Sweet, porting android games to PC has never been easier. Get ready steam!

But this means that no one would ever develop for windows phone. Why do that if you can just develop for android and port it over?

[QUOTE=FlandersNed;47621055]But this means that no one would ever develop for windows phone. Why do that if you can just develop for android and port it over?[/QUOTE] If you're developing for the Universal model, you're already developing for Windows Phone too.

[QUOTE=wickedplayer494;47621080]If you're developing for the Universal model, you're already developing for Windows Phone too.[/QUOTE] That's not what I'm saying. What I'm trying to say is that this gives incentive for people to just not buy a windows phone at all, since by putting android apps on windows phone you just turn windows phone into a less powerful android. Thurrot isn't arguing that putting windows apps onto android devices is a good thing, since that isn't happening at all. He's saying that putting android apps onto windows phone is a bad thing. It's the next line after the quote. [editline]29th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE]Letting universal apps run on Android would open up the market to Windows-focused developers and let me leverage their existing skills and knowledge. It makes sense. And I still expect to see this happen, if not in the current generation of universal apps, then in the near future. But letting Android apps run on Windows is another thing entirely. Indeed, it is the literal opposite of opening up universal apps to Android. And I question the logic of this strategy. For users, the ability to run Android apps seems like a win. After all, the single biggest knock against Windows/Windows Phone is the lack of native apps. So a Windows Phone or Windows tablet user could fill in the gaps with that crucial handful of apps that simply donâ€™t exist on the platform. Problem solved, right? Not exactly. When it comes time to upgrade, why would anyone choose a Windows Phone at that point? (A problem exacerbated by Microsoftâ€™s focus on low-end Windows Phone handsets.) Instead, most will simply choose Android, since they are now comfortable with those apps, and for the many advantages that Android has over Windows Phone generally. This is, in another words, only a short-term fix, one that will evolve into an inevitable exodus of users. For developers who have invested a lifetime of learning and mastering Microsoftâ€™s platforms, Android compatibility is a slap in the face. This sends the message that they have wasted their time and that itâ€™s time to move on to a more successful platform since, after all, the apps you create for Android will now work on Android and Windows/Windows Phone. This completely usurps the presumed value of universal apps, which I assume Microsoft will also spend a lot of time promoting this week. It will not sit well with the developers who go to Build. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FlandersNed;47621055]But this means that no one would ever develop for windows phone. Why do that if you can just develop for android and port it over?[/QUOTE] But then that means more people will adopt windows phone devices because they'll actually have apps on their app store.

[QUOTE=Diet Kane;47621462]But then that means more people will adopt windows phone devices because they'll actually have apps on their app store.[/QUOTE] Maybe, but only for a short while. In the long term everyone stops buying windows phone except those who use it already, since as far as most of the public is concerned windows phone is shit. Also, there are many apps on windows phone but the problem is more to do with quality and not quantity. [editline]29th April 2015[/editline] By doing this Microsoft is essentially admitting defeat.

I'm nearly reminded of the Windows and OS/2 situation

[QUOTE=FlandersNed;47621480] By doing this Microsoft is essentially admitting defeat.[/QUOTE] That's good, no? Now people who buy a WP can enjoy apps they otherwise couldn't.

[QUOTE=FlandersNed;47621480]Maybe, but only for a short while. In the long term everyone stops buying windows phone except those who use it already, since as far as most of the public is concerned windows phone is shit. Also, there are many apps on windows phone but the problem is more to do with quality and not quantity. [editline]29th April 2015[/editline] By doing this Microsoft is essentially admitting defeat.[/QUOTE] People are going to choose Windows Phone for the same reasons people have been. I highly doubt a massive lacking of apps was anyone's deciding factor to go [I]with[/I] WP. Apps aren't everything, as the fact that WP has any users at all is to show, but those who did choose it could now have the benefits of a filled out app store alongside the benefits that they chose a WP for.

[QUOTE=wickedplayer494;47621080]If you're developing for the Universal model, you're already developing for Windows Phone too.[/QUOTE] Why develop for universal models when you can develop for Android

[QUOTE=Levelog;47621895]People are going to choose Windows Phone for the same reasons people have been. I highly doubt a massive lacking of apps was anyone's deciding factor to go [I]with[/I] WP. Apps aren't everything, as the fact that WP has any users at all is to show, but those who did choose it could now have the benefits of a filled out app store alongside the benefits that they chose a WP for.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=itisjuly;47621880]That's good, no? Now people who buy a WP can enjoy apps they otherwise couldn't.[/QUOTE] That's the problem, though. By doing this they won't get any new customers, they'll lose them. Like I said earlier, people only bought Windows Phone if: 1. They don't care what phone they get, 2. They have made the conscientious decision to ignore the iPhone and Android and get a Windows Phone, or 3. They are Microsoft fanboys and don't want anything else because a lot of people make the assumption that windows phone is terrible without trying it. I'm guilty of doing it. 1. aren't reliable customers, since they can't tell the difference. 3. Are not very large, and by doing this, they lose 2. because there's no point getting a windows phone if its now just an android with a different skin. People didn't buy WP for apps.

RIP Android emulators

[QUOTE=FlandersNed;47621442]That's not what I'm saying. What I'm trying to say is that this gives incentive for people to just not buy a windows phone at all[/QUOTE] It's running APK off of a windows OS, with all the features that come with windows, including running windows applications it supports under it's architecture. Most people aren't aware you can basically just run Surface like a legit windows distribution and do whatever with it. So, bag/pocket sized windows plus android apps.

Fuck yes, I'll be able to play that pile of humblebundle Android games I've been hoarding.

[QUOTE=FlandersNed;47621972]That's the problem, though. By doing this they won't get any new customers, they'll lose them. Like I said earlier, people only bought Windows Phone if: 1. They don't care what phone they get, 2. They have made the conscientious decision to ignore the iPhone and Android and get a Windows Phone, or 3. They are Microsoft fanboys and don't want anything else because a lot of people make the assumption that windows phone is terrible without trying it. I'm guilty of doing it. 1. aren't reliable customers, since they can't tell the difference. 3. Are not very large, and by doing this, they lose 2. because there's no point getting a windows phone if its now just an android with a different skin. People didn't buy WP for apps.[/QUOTE] There's a fourth option that was valid as long as Nokia still made phones, which was Build quality. The only reason I bought my current phone (A Nokia Lumia 1520) was simply put, the hardware. My other phone is also a Nokia - an N70 - that still functions on its original battery and has had no repairs despite some pretty bad abuse over the past 6 years. Phone took it like a champ. For a big part of third world countries, Nokia has, for the longest time, had a large market share simply because of how goddamn good their phones were. For a long period of time, in countries like mine, just saying "Nokia" was almost a seal of quality. To that extent, it still is for last remaining Lumia phones still in the market. Microsoft not buying out the brand name has actually hurt it for these markets, because people trust Microsoft a helluva lot less than Nokia when it comes to phones so seeing the Microsoft name leaves doubts about the build quality which a Nokia badging would've have never raised. What I'm trying to say is, some of us didn't really care what operating system we were going to be getting as long as the hardware was a Nokia phone.

not like it wasn't dead before that... right now, windows has like 3% market share. they're only adding value to their platform by doing this.

[QUOTE=FlandersNed;47621972]3. Are not very large, and by doing this, they lose 2. because there's no point getting a windows phone if its now just an android with a different skin.[/QUOTE] You aren't listening, that isn't how it works. Windows phones running APKs adds functionality, it isn't going to replace their own apps. There's nothing to lose.

[QUOTE=s0beit;47623059]You aren't listening, that isn't how it works. Windows phones running APKs adds functionality, it isn't going to replace their own apps. There's nothing to lose.[/QUOTE] but devs won't develop for WP anymore because what's the point when I can just copy my app from Google Play across to Windows store? No need to go through the trouble in making apps designed for them.

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;47623065][B]but devs won't develop for WP anymore[/B] because what's the point when I can just copy my app from Google Play across to Windows store? No need to go through the trouble in making apps designed for them.[/QUOTE] who are you kidding? i dont have a windows phone, but what from what i've heard the only apps available are either totally shit or basic apps made by huge corporations (ie adobe reader, facebook etc.) actually getting apps to work definitely adds value.

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;47623065]but devs won't develop for WP anymore because what's the point when I can just copy my app from Google Play across to Windows store? No need to go through the trouble in making apps designed for them.[/QUOTE] Well, who's to say they aren't just adding this for compatibility? Maybe they won't even serve APKs in their app store, and just want users to be able to use the apps from the google store. You do bring up a good point, though. Ignoring devs ripping off APKs from the android store or only developing android apps, users may not even bother looking at the windows store if there's a better android app out there available. If it's true devs might react negatively, and existing app makers they have (and there aren't many) might get screwed over, so it might damage their own app store. Then again maybe it'll be like emulation on other systems, and native windows apps will perform better incentivizing the use of native apps.

Can anyone just do that on their own or do they have to make a deal with Google? Because if Ubuntu could do that with their Ubuntu Phone, it would probably help them a ton as well. Either way Google wins because coding for Android will become all the more prevalent. [editline]29th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=s0beit;47623074]Then again maybe it'll be like emulation on other systems, and native windows apps will perform better incentivizing the use of native apps.[/QUOTE] The way Android is layered, Android apps already pretty much run on virtual machine emulation. It's like Java. It depends on how MS optimizes it but the performance difference between apps running on native android and on windows might be negligible.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;47623072]who are you kidding? i dont have a windows phone, but what from what i've heard the only apps available are either totally shit or basic apps made by huge corporations (ie adobe reader, facebook etc.) actually getting apps to work definitely adds value.[/QUOTE] See, this is the problem. The FIRST party apps are shit but the third-party apps made by the WP community are incredible. There's a guy who's recreated a better version of Tinder, Instagram, Vine and Snapchat (before Snapchat made sure to remove it from the WP store and block the accounts of anyone using it as part of their no third-party apps policy, even though there is no snapchat app for WP) and they're great. Apps like myTube/Tubecast and Readit/Baconit are amazing and in some cases better than their companion apps on Android or iPhone. There ARE apps, but a lot of people simply just don't realize it. They just go off on what they've heard, assumptions or bias. It's been said already in this thread but this is similar to OS/2 vs. DOS and Blackberry's idea to put android apps on their store. In both cases the losing company allowed emulation of the other company's programs/apps on their devices and people simply chose the other company so that they didn't have to emulate the experience of having it. Also this kind of goes against the 'Universal Apps' model for Windows 10, because it only really affects Windows Phone but undermines the point of only developing for one Windows system and by extension developing for all of them. [QUOTE=s0beit;47623059]You aren't listening, that isn't how it works. Windows phones running APKs adds functionality, it isn't going to replace their own apps. There's nothing to lose.[/QUOTE] They might not lose those devs dedicated to windows phone but they will lose potential customers who will just see Windows Phone as another Blackberry.

[QUOTE=Amiga OS;47623460]It won't, Jolla is very similar to Ubuntu Phone, its been out for a full year longer and the native app library is non existent. If you add alien Dalvik, you've literally just killed any hope for your platform.[/QUOTE] Well it depends on what do you want from your platform. The cellphone market is a highly competitive one and it's really hard to pick up momentum without heavily subsidizing your phones to be cheaper and better than the competitors, and not even Microsoft managed to break through with that. Maybe it's a feasible plan to try to grab a share of the hardware market even if it's at cost of your proprietary software library as you can still make money off the hardware sales (and all the juicy private info of the people using your phones which is imho what pretty much the whole business is about these days).

This is ironically reminiscent of when [URL="http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/11/24/half-an-operating-system-the-triumph-and-tragedy-of-os2/4/"]IBM added support for Windows applications in OS/2 and then no one bothered to make good native OS/2 applications[/URL].

So they're in the process of announcing this now, and it sounds like it's about making it really easy to port apps from Android to Windows, not simply having Android apps run on Windows. I think this is a better approach, it won't discourage people from developing for Windows, it just makes it easier for them to do so.

[video=youtube;v6lcXo1t-eM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6lcXo1t-eM[/video]

confirmed: [URL="http://www.engadget.com/2015/04/29/android-ios-apps-on-windows-10/"]http://www.engadget.com/2015/04/29/android-ios-apps-on-windows-10/[/URL] the app developers have to run their iOS and Android app code through visual studio and recompile it as a windows program.

So, Hearthstone for Windows Phone confirmed?

That was the only reason I picked a Blackberry over a Windows phone. Why I stuck myself between those two, I still have no idea. Terrible decision all around more or less. One of the biggest problems with running android apps on Blackberry10 is the lack of google play services, which gets pretty annoying.