[url]http://www.cincinnati.com/videos/news/crime/crime-and-courts/2015/07/29/30840281/[/url]
[quote]The entire video, provided by Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters, shows UC police officer Ray Tensing's bodycam and his fatal encounter with Samuel DuBose. Provided/Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters[/quote]
TRANSCRIPT
[quote]"I just don't. I'm sorry. I'm just going to go in my house," DuBose says, with his car facing south on Rice Street in Mount Auburn.
"OK. Where do you stay at? Down here?" Tensing asks.
DuBose: "Right around the corner."
Tensing: "OK, until I can figure out if you have a license or not, go ahead and take your seat belt off."
Tensing pulls the door latch and opens the door a few inches.
DuBose pulls it closed with his left hand and uses his right hand to reach for the car key in the ignition.
"I ain't even do nothing," DuBose says.
"Go ahead and take your seat belt off," Tensing says again.
DuBose turns the key to start the car and revs the engine, but the car doesn't move.
Tensing reaches in the window with his left hand toward the ignition. He pulls his gun with this right hand, shouts, "Stop! Stop!" and shoots DuBose.
The car jumps forward and rolls down the street about 100 yards until it runs off the road and stops - engine still running.
Tensing and another officer run after the car. The other officer yells to Tensing, "Did you hit him?"
Tensing yells back, "I don't know. I might have."
With guns drawn, the two officers reach the car together and find DuBose slumped back in the driver's seat.
Tensing reaches through the window with his left hand and turns the key to stop the engine.
Out of breath, Tensing says: "I thought he was going to be run me over."[/quote]
This one is over 20 minutes and doesn't appear to have the censor during the shooting. Its hard to tell whether or not the the officer was actually dragged by the vehicle (it looks like it didn't move at all), but it sounded like DuBose did rev his engine during the struggle before the gunshot.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/OfxLo4F.png[/img]
Tie this into watching the video, and even if the cop fucked up a bit, it's still clear he was dragged along by someone who didn't want to be searched for whatever reason. In speaking of that, was it ever confirmed as to why the man hit the pedal to the metal?
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;48326691]In speaking of that, was it ever confirmed as to why the man hit the pedal to the metal?[/QUOTE]
Sometimes when you get shot in the face you die and your body goes limp
Seems like it was just an accident. Cop drew his weapon and tried to reach for the keys, when he floored it he started to drag the cop causing him to tense up and fire.
I dont think the cop is at fault in this situation.
[QUOTE=Cmx;48326807]Seems like it was just an accident. Cop drew his weapon and tried to reach for the keys, when he floored it he started to drag the cop causing him to tense up and fire.
I dont think the cop is at fault in this situation.[/QUOTE]
Any reason cop pulled out a gun like that anyway?
[QUOTE=X12321;48326796]Sometimes when you get shot in the face you die and your body goes limp[/QUOTE]
Its fair to make that arguement, but then why did the car still accelerate? Did DuBose not put the car in park during the traffic stop? Doesn't everyone put their car in park when they get pulled over?
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48326811]Any reason cop pulled out a gun like that anyway?[/QUOTE]
The guy closing the door after the cop tries to open it would already have him reaching for his weapon, after he starts the car its clear hes going to flee. Any cop would draw their weapon in that situation.
[QUOTE=Lamar;48326827]Its fair to make that arguement, but then why did the car still accelerate? Did DuBose not put the car in park during the traffic stop? Doesn't everyone put their car in park when they get pulled over?[/QUOTE]
The car was off after he was pulled over, you can see him reach for the key and hear it start up around 2:43 then take off right after that before the shot.
[QUOTE=Cmx;48326846]The guy closing the door after the cop tries to open it would already have him reaching for his weapon, after he starts the car its clear hes going to flee. Any cop would draw their weapon in that situation.[/QUOTE]
So because a criminal is going to flee cops pull out weapons? That's kinda scary to think about.
[QUOTE=X12321;48326796]Sometimes when you get shot in the face you die and your body goes limp[/QUOTE]
The car was already moving when the officer shot. If you take a look at the picture I posted(as well as the video), its clear the man who was shot was trying to floor it.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48326855]So because a criminal is going to flee cops pull out weapons? That's kinda scary to think about.[/QUOTE]Vehicles are considered dangerous weapons given that it doesn't take a lot for one to kill someone.
[QUOTE=Cmx;48326846]The guy closing the door after the cop tries to open it would already have him reaching for his weapon, after he starts the car its clear hes going to flee. Any cop would draw their weapon in that situation.
The car was off after he was pulled over, you can see him reach for the key and hear it start up around 2:43 then take off right after that before the shot.[/QUOTE]
Then that would raise the question on why/if Dubose turned his car off while it was in drive.
[QUOTE=Lamar;48326893]Then that would raise the question on why/if Dubose turned his car off while it was in drive.[/QUOTE]
You cant start a car while its in drive, It has to be in park or neutral or the starter wont engage.
[QUOTE=Cmx;48326949]You cant start a car while its in drive, It has to be in park or neutral or the starter wont engage.[/QUOTE]
Aren't the officer's actions justified then if DuBose put the car in gear and attempted to drive off while the officer's arms were still in the vehicle?
[QUOTE=Cmx;48326949]You cant start a car while its in drive, It has to be in park or neutral or the starter wont engage.[/QUOTE]
This is true for automatics, but if it was an older manual it's entirely possible to start it while it's in gear
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;48326691][img]http://i.imgur.com/OfxLo4F.png[/img]
Tie this into watching the video, and even if the cop fucked up a bit, it's still clear he was dragged along by someone who didn't want to be searched for whatever reason. In speaking of that, was it ever confirmed as to why the man hit the pedal to the metal?[/QUOTE]
"Didn't want to be searched for whatever reason"? Do you default to wanting to be searched?
[QUOTE=Lamar;48326977]Aren't the officer's actions justified then if DuBose put the car in gear and attempted to drive off while the officer's arms were still in the vehicle?[/QUOTE]
but he hadn't, he reached in when the guy started the car
[QUOTE=Tone Float;48327000]"Didn't want to be searched for whatever reason"? Do you default to wanting to be searched?[/QUOTE]
Literally nobody [I]wants[/I] to be searched. It's just that it would've been a more fair and clean situation had he have actually just obliged in allowing the officer to do his job and search the vehicle.
[QUOTE=Tone Float;48327000]"Didn't want to be searched for whatever reason"? Do you default to wanting to be searched?[/QUOTE]
You shouldn't make the situation worse then it has to be in certain cases. In a case of a simple traffic stop, all you are doing is dragging everyone into a worse situation by being an asshat.
Maybe the guy didn't want his belongings confiscated?
Because civil forfeiture is known to be government backed robbery?
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEpZWGgJks[/media]
[editline]30th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;48327072]You shouldn't make the situation worse then it has to be in certain cases. In a case of a simple traffic stop, all you are doing is dragging everyone into a worse situation by being an asshat.[/QUOTE]
Or the cop could've just run the name instead of asking "why don't you have a license on you" a million times.
Both made the situation worse.
But one of them had a weapon.
One of them is a trained professional.
One of them shot the other in the head be cause he though he was "gonna be run over" standing on the side of the vehicle.
[QUOTE=Killuah;48327078]Maybe the guy didn't want his belongings confiscated?
Because civil forfeiture is known to be government backed robbery?
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEpZWGgJks[/media]
[editline]30th July 2015[/editline]
Or the cop could've just run the name instead of asking "why don't you have a license on you" a million times.
Both made the situation worse.
But one of them shot the other in the head be cause he though he was "gonna be run over" standing on the side of the vehicle.[/QUOTE]
I really get your understanding of US Police proceedure sits squrely in the "But why didn't he shoot the gun out of his hand???" camp, but please try to understand that no matter what you believe, evidence backing or not, you cannot resist or flee a police officer that has you detained or arrested. 'Running Names' is not something you rely upon, especially not on a verbal disclosure. It would not be hard at all to obtain a name and date of birth for someone that looks like me, and that's all you need to run someone out accurately.
Insofar as the use of force goes, when the struggling begins one thing springs to mind that I can't make out. DuBose may have grabbed the officer's arm while trying to get the car moving, and whether he intended to get the cop to stop reaching in the car or grab him and drag him, that could have led the officer to believe DuBose was going to drag him, pull him under the car, or grab a weapon in the car and use it.
All the officer needed to legally shoot DuBose was to be in legitimate fear for great bodily harm or death. If I were in the officer's shoes, I definitely would be afraid for my life.
[QUOTE=Sonador;48327149]I really get your understanding of US Police proceedure sits squrely in the "But why didn't he shoot the gun out of his hand???" camp, but please try to understand that no matter what you believe, evidence backing or not, you cannot resist or flee a police officer that has you detained or arrested. 'Running Names' is not something you rely upon, especially not on a verbal disclosure. It would not be hard at all to obtain a name and date of birth for someone that looks like me, and that's all you need to run someone out accurately.
Insofar as the use of force goes, when the struggling begins one thing springs to mind that I can't make out. DuBose may have grabbed the officer's arm while trying to get the car moving, and whether he intended to get the cop to stop reaching in the car or grab him and drag him, that could have led the officer to believe DuBose was going to drag him, pull him under the car, or grab a weapon in the car and use it.
All the officer needed to legally shoot DuBose was to be in legitimate fear for great bodily harm or death. If I were in the officer's shoes, I definitely would be afraid for my life.[/QUOTE]
The prosecution seems to think otherwise, he's charged with murder.
Also I really don't get where you get this from [quote]I really get your understanding of US Police proceedure sits squrely in the "But why didn't he shoot the gun out of his hand???" camp[/quote]
What a useless exageration.
There was no gun except on the officer who wasn't even reaching into the vehicle when the guy went for the keys.
Fear for his life in what way? The vehicle suddenly shifting sideways?
Where the hell are you guys getting that he tried to floor it? There is no solid evidence he tried to do that.
Happens more likely than you think when a department is under pressure from the public. One of my supervisors, a former cop of 25 years, has been placed on trial for vehicular manslaughter for running over a man with a gun threatening someone with his cruiser. He was cleared, because hitting someone with a car is lethal force, and the man with the gun was using force likely to cause great bodily or death on his victim.
Believe it or not, in the US you are innocent until proven guilty in the court of law, and we'll see what the verdict is.
[editline]29th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sleepy Head;48327204]Where the hell are you guys getting that he tried to floor it? There is no solid evidence he tried to do that.[/QUOTE]
Turn on your speakers and listen to the video, you can hear the engine
Video is pretty conclusive, while I don't think he intended to murder thre guy he definitely killed him because of gross negligence.
[QUOTE=Sonador;48327224]Happens more likely than you think when a department is under pressure from the public. One of my supervisors, a former cop of 25 years, has been placed on trial for vehicular manslaughter for running over a man with a gun threatening someone with his cruiser. He was cleared, because hitting someone with a car is lethal force, and them an with the gun was using force likely to cause great bodily or death on his victim.
Believe it or not, in the US you are innocent until proven guilty in the court of law, and we'll see what the verdict is.
[editline]29th July 2015[/editline]
Turn on your speakers and listen to the video, you can hear the engine[/QUOTE]
yeah upfront maybe however this is different, there is a video, the cop was not in any danger except maybe of getting his foot run over
[QUOTE=Killuah;48327244]yeah upfront maybe however this is different, there is a video, the cop was not in any danger except maybe of getting his foot run over[/QUOTE]
How do you know that?
[QUOTE=Sonador;48327249]How do you know that?[/QUOTE]
I watched the video ?
[QUOTE=Killuah;48327255]I watched the video ?[/QUOTE]
Excellent reply, but what elements of the video lead you, in your qualified and expert opinion, to believe the police officer was in no danger and should not have feared for his life?
[QUOTE=Killuah;48327244]yeah upfront maybe however this is different, there is a video, the cop was not in any danger except maybe of getting his foot run over[/QUOTE]
Still justification according to American laws. Losing a foot counts as grievous bodily harm. He could have been dragged under the vehicle, too. There should have been no indictment. There was no intent to commit murder, and there is no reason to believe that he was not reasonably in fear for his life.
[QUOTE=Sonador;48327339]Excellent reply, but what elements of the video lead you, in your qualified and expert opinion, to believe the police officer was in no danger and should not have feared for his life?[/QUOTE]
Nice tone you're using there, thanks for the friendly discussion but it's not even important if I'm expert enough to see if someone standing at the side of a starting car is in danger of his life.
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