• German authorities 'lose sight' of three Islamists flagged as threats
    17 replies, posted
[quote]Burkhard Lischka, a parliamentary spokesman for the Social Democrats, said three of the nearly 550 individuals identified as Islamist threats in Germany could not be found. Speaking after a meeting of the internal affairs committee in Berlin, Lischka held up as a warning the case of Anis Amri, a failed asylum seeker from Tunisia who fell off the authorities' radar despite long being regarded as a threat. Last month, the 24-year-old ploughed a truck through a Christmas market in Berlin, killing 12 people and wounding dozens more. "They are playing with fire, and every wrong calculation can be deadly," Lischka said. Amri managed to flee to Italy, where he was fatally shot by police near Milan. The self-styled "Islamic State" terror group claimed responsibility for the Berlin attack, calling Amri a fellow "soldier." 'Unacceptable' situation The German government has been heavily criticized over the handling of Amri's case, with many questions raised as to why he wasn't apprehended. According to German media reports, investigators looking into his background ultimately decided it was unlikely he would carry out an attack. Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere on Wednesday announced that the country's Joint Terrorism Task Force would now carefully review the cases of each of the 547 people - both German nationals and foreigners - flagged as security risks to determine whether they should be deported or taken into custody. According to authorities, around half of the Islamists considered potentially dangerous in Germany are currently living abroad. Domestic policy spokesman for the ruling coalition, Stephan Mayer, told the interior committee meeting that 88 of those individuals were in custody. More than a third come from the western state of North Rhine-Westphalia, while a significant number are also based in Berlin, Mayer said.[/quote] [url]http://www.dw.com/en/german-authorities-lose-sight-of-three-islamists-flagged-as-threats/a-37185213[/url]
hopefully they won't find them in pieces
Why are they not already removing all those islamists that are considered a threat to the public? What about preemptive protection of the citizens? 550 potential terror attacks could be avoided if they are all deported! It boggles the mind.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51693957]Why are they not already removing all those islamists that are considered a threat to the public? What about preemptive protection of the citizens? 550 potential terror attacks could be avoided if they are all deported! It boggles the mind.[/QUOTE] in the article... [QUOTE]According to German media reports, investigators looking into his background ultimately decided it was unlikely he would carry out an attack.[/QUOTE] one of the reasons they may not respond to these threats right away is because they still continue to monitor them in hopes that they reveal the positions of more terrorists. of course waiting [I]too[/I] long has consequences like this.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51693957]Why are they not already removing all those islamists that are considered a threat to the public? What about preemptive protection of the citizens? 550 potential terror attacks could be avoided if they are all deported! It boggles the mind.[/QUOTE] The problem is that you can't deport people from germany, if you don't know their nationality. So if you got people who throw away their ID and travel to germany, you can't get rid of them. You might say, well, didn't you check the people who came to your country first? Nope, and when they are at your doorstep, you have to let them in if they are using force. Because germany is not allowed to defend its borders. If you even suggest that, you are getting branded as a Nazi and the whole media turns against you.
[QUOTE=da space core;51694004]in the article... one of the reasons they may not respond to these threats right away is because they still continue to monitor them in hopes that they reveal the positions of more terrorists. of course waiting [I]too[/I] long has consequences like this.[/QUOTE] Yes I know, they are looking into it, but I wrote as quoted why are hey not [i]already[/i] removing them. If someone is such a threat to the public is is insane they have not already been removed. [QUOTE=CarnolfMeatla;51694017]The problem is that you can't deport people from germany, if you don't know their nationality. So if you got people who throw away their ID and travel to germany, you can't get rid of them. You might say, well, didn't you check the people who came to your country first? Nope, and when they are at your doorstep, you have to let them in if they are using force. Because germany is not allowed to defend its borders. If you even suggest that, you are getting branded as a Nazi and the whole media turns against you.[/QUOTE] Yes I understand this, and we do need a way to determine their country of origin. Best would be to have them in a secured location until they agree to tell where they're from - especially if they're seen as a threat.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51694018] Yes I understand this, and we do need a way to determine their country of origin. Best would be to have them in a secured location until they agree to tell where they're from - especially if they're seen as a threat.[/QUOTE] How can you be sure that they don't lie? Why should a terrorist come here and tell the truth, that he is gonna kill people because they are not part of his religion? My opinion is, if they don't have any papers or ID, no entry.
[QUOTE=CarnolfMeatla;51694063]How can you be sure that they don't lie? Why should a terrorist come here and tell the truth, that he is gonna kill people because they are not part of his religion? My opinion is, if they don't have any papers or ID, no entry.[/QUOTE] That would be the best and sanest solution. You wouldn't let a stranger through your door that you know absolutely nothing about. It is like the politicians are playing with the lives of their citizens just so they can continue to wallow in their own self-righteousness.
The problem is not the ID. We just don't charge people for thought crimes and that's good.
[QUOTE=Overhauser;51694103]The problem is not the ID. We just don't charge people for thought crimes and that's good.[/QUOTE] How is being in a country illegally and having to be deported a thought crime?
[QUOTE=CarnolfMeatla;51694137]How is being in a country illegally and having to be deported a thought crime?[/QUOTE] I thought we are talking about Muslim extremists flagged as threats?
[QUOTE=Overhauser;51694165]I thought we are talking about Muslim extremists flagged as threats?[/QUOTE] Did you forget about the terror attack in Berlin few days before christmas? The terrorist was supposed to be deported, but because they had no idea where he came from, they could not send him back. Read it up: [url]https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-12-22/europe-has-a-refugee-repatriation-problem[/url] [QUOTE]After his release in 2015 to a deportation center, Italian authorities waited for Tunisia to recognize his citizenship and issue a passport. The answer didn’t come in the allocated time, and Italy released Amri with orders to leave the country. He went to Germany: July 2015 was a good time to get lost among the throngs of refugees then pouring across the border. Many didn’t have valid identity papers, and Amri could start a new life by joining those filing asylum applications. [/QUOTE] And now this shit happens again.
I didnt but the Islamist are not necessarily all people without ID and the same is true the other way around. In fact we had the laws in place that allowed for at least taking him to prison until the papers arrived (they arrived the day after the attack). You can read why they didn't take him in in the OP. It was jot an issue of the ID. [editline]19th January 2017[/editline] Your post also is absolutely wrong and your own quote shows it, authorities did know where he was from. They fucked up when deciding whether he is dangerous or not. I don't see how an ID (something that you can buy easily in Turkey or West Africa by the way if you have the money) would change the fuck up. Instead you just fuck all people who really need help and have no ID, you know, like politically oppressed people often do. In fact when turkey incarcerated a German journalist a few months ago the first thing they did was take her passport.
[QUOTE=Overhauser;51694751]I didnt but the Islamist are not necessarily all people without ID and the same is true the other way around. In fact we had the laws in place that allowed for at least taking him to prison until the papers arrived (they arrived the day after the attack). You can read why they didn't take him in in the OP. It was jot an issue of the ID. [editline]19th January 2017[/editline] Your post also is absolutely wrong and your own quote shows it, authorities did know where he was from. They fucked up when deciding whether he is dangerous or not. I don't see how an ID (something that you can buy easily in Turkey or West Africa by the way if you have the money) would change the fuck up. Instead you just fuck all people who really need help and have no ID, you know, like politically oppressed people often do. In fact when turkey incarcerated a German journalist a few months ago the first thing they did was take her passport.[/QUOTE] So you wanna tell me that the people who have "lost" their ID, wander through all these safe countries like Italy, Greece, Hungary to seek a place without war, a place where they can stay without fearing to die? So why come to Germany or Sweden at all? The answer is the money they get even if they are still in the process of having their asylum application processed. Hell, people who are to be deported get money. And then they sue against that to prolong the process even longer, draining more money from the welfare state. If there is a loophole, people will exploit it. Be it huge industrial giants putting their production lines in countries with terrible human rights index, or criminal organisations using the Schengen area to distribute illegal goods with low risks. Can't you see how easy it is to exploit an open border policy? And how is my post wrong? If they had an ID of the guy, they would have deported him back, and the attack wouldnt have happend, saving lifes of tax paying citizens. The government is totally disconnected from the population. [editline]19th January 2017[/editline] And to your point [QUOTE]Instead you just fuck all people who really need help and have no ID, you know, like politically oppressed people often do. [/QUOTE] You can't help everyone. And it gets worse. Germany takes the people who survive the long trip from the war torn countries. The people who can't are left there. Who is supposed to build up the country when the shitstorm ended? Those people that came are not gonna go back. Even our government works on integrating them into our society. So sending them back is not a option. The people who really suffer from the war are not helped. To really help those people, the money we spend now would have been better spent by aiding the country. And it would have been cheaper. Instead you have to give language courses, strain the already ramshackled education sector, bring more lowly educated people into a country that got rid of most blue collar jobs through automation, leading inevitably to a higher unemployment rate etc etc etc... I could go on and on.
Social services and the BAMF have repeatedly shown that most refugees follow along social contacts that are already existing since you know, Europe has been taking immigrants for the last 40 years as cheap labour. I won't even respond to the rest of your outbreak since we are talking about Islamist extremists yet you use it to vent against all immigrants and or refugees. Unless you calm down and tell me what it has to do with the op, good bye, I hope you have people to help you with all of that hate in your heart.
[QUOTE=Overhauser;51695686]Social services and the BAMF have repeatedly shown that most refugees follow along social contacts that are already existing since you know, Europe has been taking immigrants for the last 40 years as cheap labour. I won't even respond to the rest of your outbreak since we are talking about Islamist extremists yet you use it to vent against all immigrants and or refugees. Unless you calm down and tell me what it has to do with the op, good bye, I hope you have people to help you with all of that hate in your heart.[/QUOTE] I don't hate the people who are abusing the loopholes that exist, I hate the government which doesn't even try to solve the problems, and instead creates even more problems. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51693957]Why are they not already removing all those islamists that are considered a threat to the public? What about preemptive protection of the citizens? 550 potential terror attacks could be avoided if they are all deported! It boggles the mind.[/QUOTE] I'm usually not one for the slippery slope argument but 'preemptive protection' should have a very clear limit The process here is clear: if someone is deemed enough of a security risk to be put on a list, they'll receive further investigation, and if that declares them enough of a security risk to be taken into custody/deported, then they are The Berlin terrorist was investigated, and said to not be a threat. My response to this is to put the investigation at fault, not the entire process. What you seem to be calling for is removing that second stage entirely, even though you don't know the specifics (to be clear, none of us do) of what puts them on that list in the first place. A person who's under house arrest is considered a security risk. A person with a restraining order is considered a security risk. A person with an ankle monitor is considered a security risk. Should we throw them in jail indefinitely?
I also like how his rhetoric shows that he thinks that all of the people on the list are not of German citizenship.
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