• H.W. Bush Slams Rumsfeld, Cheney, claiming he "built his own empire", claims that they essentially r
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[URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/05/us/politics/elder-bush-says-his-son-was-served-badly-by-aides.html[/URL] Some of the golden bits: [QUOTE]In interviews with his biographer, Mr. Bush said that [B]Mr. Cheney had built “his own empire”[/B] and asserted too much “hard-line” influence within [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/george_w_bush/index.html?inline=nyt-per"]George W. Bush[/URL]’s White House in pushing for the use of force around the world. Mr. Rumsfeld, the elder Mr. Bush said, was an “arrogant fellow” who could not see how others thought and “served the president badly.[/QUOTE] Then this gem: [QUOTE]“I do worry about some of the rhetoric that was out there — [B]some of it his, maybe, and some of it the people around him,[/B]” Mr. Bush told Mr. Meacham. “Hot rhetoric is pretty easy to get headlines, but it doesn’t necessarily solve the diplomatic problem.” [B]Asked for specifics, Mr. Bush cited his son’s [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/state_of_the_union_message_us/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier"]State of the Union address[/URL][/B][B] in 2002, when he described an “axis of evil” [/B]that included Iraq, Iran and North Korea. “You go back to the ‘axis of evil’ and these things and I think that might be historically proved to be not benefiting anything,” he said.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]“He had his own empire there and marched to his own drummer,” Mr. Bush said. “It just showed me that you cannot do it that way. The president should not have that worry.” He said he thought Mr. Cheney had changed since serving in his cabinet. “He just became very hard-line and very different from the Dick Cheney I knew and worked with,” Mr. Bush said. He attributed that to the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. “[B]Just iron-ass[/B]. His seeming knuckling under to the real hard-charging guys who want to fight about everything, use force to get our way in the Middle East.”[/QUOTE] Wow. I mean holy shit. To be honest, I've been saying this for years how Cheney was the mastermind behind the massive, corrupt, (and for a lack of a better word, pardon the rhetoric) military-indusrial complex bullshit that was built up in DC here., that's still fucking around today because it's such a huge part of our economy. To paraphrase, basically he's blaming Cheney for everything. Torture, NSA, you name it.
A lot of that is true in that Cheney pushed for it or originated it, however... Jr is a 90 IQ simpleton without an ounce of common sense in his body, whom spent his entire adult life preening and training on the superficial shit to be president without having any of the qualities that would have made him a [I]good[/I] president, a man worthy of leading 300 other million peoples' voices. The man lead prayer meetings to figure out what to do in Afghanistan, for fuck's sake, like Jesus was gonna come down off a cloud and fix it for him, after he was done getting the Patriots extra touchdowns. He was the world's most advanced muppet, and history will show that pretty categorically. He also signed off on a lot of sketchy shit entirely of his own accord.
[QUOTE=27X;49052509]Jr is a 90 IQ simpleton[/QUOTE] btw that number is from a blatantly obvious hoax
The military-industrial complex existed long before Cheney came along.
[QUOTE=krutomisi;49052715]btw that number is from a blatantly obvious hoax[/QUOTE] Whether or not it's the exact number is immaterial, the issue is the man made incredibly questionable decisions even when given objective data from more than one source; he also flat-out lied about several things including Iraq and Katrina. Not a good president.
[QUOTE=27X;49052808]Whether or not it's the exact number is immaterial, the issue is the man made incredibly questionable decisions even when given objective data from more than one source; he also flat-out lied about several things including Iraq and Katrina. Not a good president.[/QUOTE] If it doesn't matter then why bring up it. Its funny when people mention his IQ when Bush more than likley has a much higher IQ than themselves. Also what he lie about in Katrina?
Speaking of low IQ, that's not even kinda what I said. what he lie was the type of response, how it was to be deployed and how much he actually knew in regards to Brown's incompetence.
[QUOTE=27X;49052808]Whether or not it's the exact number is immaterial[/QUOTE] What's immaterial is the role that Dubya's IQ (which, like every other president, is above average) played in his administration's poor performance. What hurt him most was the fact that he was extremely bad judge of character, right from the start, and the fact that Cheney didn't go the way of Aaron Burr just shows how badly he needed advice on advisors.
It seemed pretty fucking obvious to me that the "90 IQ" thing was just part of a long winded insult to Bush's intelligence. correct me if I'm wrong 27X but I found it pretty blatant that the point of that sentence was "Jr. is a fucking idiot" rather than "here is my forensic evidence for why George Bush was a bad president: 90 IQ"
[QUOTE=27X;49053074]Speaking of low IQ, that's not even kinda what I said. what he lie was the type of response, how it was to be deployed and how much he actually knew in regards to Brown's incompetence.[/QUOTE] Nah, you called him a "90 IQ simpleton". Its not kinda what you said its exactly what you said. Considering 90 is usually considered average intelligence and the fact you used the word simpleton to describe him is pretty damned pretentious.
Me and friend were joking about this the other day. Bush and Cheney [img]http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/renandstimpy/images/f/f2/Ren%26Stimpy.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131101230728[/img] [editline]5th November 2015[/editline] There's probably a better example but this is what we came up with
Personally I'd say Dubya was a grown-ass man capable of making his own damned decisions, but eh.
[QUOTE=27X;49053074]Speaking of low IQ, that's not even kinda what I said. what he lie was the type of response, how it was to be deployed and how much he actually knew in regards to Brown's incompetence.[/QUOTE] The response was slowed down by the states iirc. President can't wave a magic wand and give everyone in Louisiana a life vest. The states kept saying. [I]"Naw were good, thanks."[/I] And Mayor Ray Nagin was literally [I]criminally negligent[/I] with his handling of it, too. He never gave an evacuation order until it was too late to evacuate, and everyone got stranded. The response was a clusterfuck, but it's not entirely Bush's fault like so many claim.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;49053250]Nah, you called him a "90 IQ simpleton". Its not kinda what you said its exactly what you said. Considering 90 is usually considered average intelligence and the fact you used the word simpleton to describe him is pretty damned pretentious.[/QUOTE] wasn't his point to be hyperbolic in stating how Bush is an extremely average man? The average man has no place in being the president. The average man is a simpleton compared to who actually qualifies. Bush ruined his own reputation by just not being good enough.
[QUOTE=J!NX;49053848]wasn't his point to be hyperbolic in stating how Bush is an extremely average man? The average man has no place in being the president. The average man is a simpleton compared to who actually qualifies. Bush ruined his own reputation by just not being good enough.[/QUOTE] Simpleton is very derogatory, its not synonymous with the word average at all. That would be like calling Bush mentally retarded because compared to Einstein he could be mentally retarded. It's just an excuse for an insult. Besides the fact Bush had an IQ far above average. [editline]5th November 2015[/editline] Granted as you said he could have ment it in a hyperbolic way, which I doubt, but its still an insult for the sake of insulting.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;49054260]Simpleton is very derogatory, its not synonymous with the word average at all. That would be like calling Bush mentally retarded because compared to Einstein he could be mentally retarded. It's just an excuse for an insult. [b]Besides the fact Bush had an IQ far above average.[/b] [editline]5th November 2015[/editline] Granted as you said he could have ment it in a hyperbolic way, which I doubt, but its still an insult for the sake of insulting.[/QUOTE] [url=http://web.archive.org/web/20121030060057/http://www1.csbsju.edu/uspp/Election/bush011401.htm]Predictions showed him falling around an average of 119[/url], others as low as 111, and based off his SAT scores perhaps 115. That's slightly above average, but not "far above average" (as in high above average) as you're trying to suggest. As far as standardized measurements go, he's not average-average, but he's not above-above average and certainly not "far above average" (as in near-genius) either. The IQ exaggeration however just makes the very valid reinforcement that he was one of the most incompetent presidents in all of American history (and possibly even [i]the[/i] most incompetent in modern American history), which is something he's been justifiably criticized for again and again since he was in office and since he left. His terrible choices in advisers and staff members, his administration's poor economic policies that caused the Great Recession, his resistance to LGBT rights, support for the PATRIOT Act and No Child Left Behind... and then there's the gigantically-expensive and counterproductive clusterfuck that was the War on Terror (invading Iraq on erroneous intelligence in particular). If it wasn't outright idiocy that was responsible for his manuscript of failures/bungled responses/poor decisions, then it was just general incompetence on his part and his administration as the executive. Whatever the case may be, whether he's in reality a massive idiot or just a very incompetent leader, he was never fit to be the President of the United States-- and that's exactly the reason why his reputation is so poor in hindsight and tarnished not only for him but for the Bush family as a whole.
Something to remember is that the IQ scale is not fixed; 100 is the center point for 'average', but this average is constantly moving higher at a rate of 1/3 a point every year -- for every three years that you're alive, your effective IQ score drops by 1 due to score renormalization. If Bush had an even 100 IQ coming out of high school (for the sake of argument), he would definitely have below 90 IQ now. This kind of slide has been used to get people off the hook for crimes, because IQs below 70 are considered legally retarded in the criminal justice system and, as a result, incapable of being criminally held for their actions, and if someone's high school IQ scores were, say, 75 but they murdered someone in their 30s, it can be shown that their IQ falls below the legal standard of informed culpability. This is why IQ is a terrible metric to judge character off of. It only measures one aspect of intelligence and it isn't even a fixed scale.
You know, every time I see a picture of Bush, i get an impression he be great as a pal if I were stuck in the middle of the desert and needed someone to make it through such a harrowing survival experience, he would be perfect. However, I wouldnt trust Cheney any where near a shotgun.
[QUOTE=JohhnyCarson;49055458]You know, every time I see a picture of Bush, i get an impression he be great as a pal if I were stuck in the middle of the desert and needed someone to make it through such a harrowing survival experience, he would be perfect. However, I wouldnt trust Cheney any where near a shotgun.[/QUOTE] Yeah they call Cheney anti christ for a reason
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;49055193]Something to remember is that the IQ scale is not fixed; 100 is the center point for 'average', but this average is constantly moving higher at a rate of 1/3 a point every year -- for every three years that you're alive, your effective IQ score drops by 1 due to score renormalization. If Bush had an even 100 IQ coming out of high school (for the sake of argument), he would definitely have below 90 IQ now. This kind of slide has been used to get people off the hook for crimes, because IQs below 70 are considered legally retarded in the criminal justice system and, as a result, incapable of being criminally held for their actions, and if someone's high school IQ scores were, say, 75 but they murdered someone in their 30s, it can be shown that their IQ falls below the legal standard of informed culpability. This is why IQ is a terrible metric to judge character off of. It only measures one aspect of intelligence and it isn't even a fixed scale.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure the constantly increasing IQ phenomena has ended in developed nations already.
[QUOTE=KennethKaniff;49055762]I'm pretty sure the constantly increasing IQ phenomena has ended in developed nations already.[/QUOTE] I was trying to make a hunting accident joke.
[QUOTE=OvB;49053843]The response was slowed down by the states iirc. President can't wave a magic wand and give everyone in Louisiana a life vest. The states kept saying. [I]"Naw were good, thanks."[/I] And Mayor Ray Nagin was literally [I]criminally negligent[/I] with his handling of it, too. He never gave an evacuation order until it was too late to evacuate, and everyone got stranded. The response was a clusterfuck, but it's not entirely Bush's fault like so many claim.[/QUOTE] Never insinuated that he somehow masterminded it or anything to the effect, and yes Nagin is entirely complicit. He lied about his level of knowledge. We know this from documents procured after the fact, same for Iraq which was exposed by MSNBC and FrontLine. [quote] derogatory [/quote] Pretty sure simpleton and praying that his magic jewish zombie friend hand-wave fix Afghanistan concur rather aptly. Sure there are other things where he played the part of good ol boy duh duh the same way Clinton played I AINT'S NO FANCY BOOK DOCTOR, YUK YUK BUT MONICA SURE WAS PURTEH, and Reagan suddenly and mysteriously couldn't recognize who Oliver North was or discern Contra wasn't a video game from Konami starring Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sylvester Stallone, but there are plenty of other things present during his tenure that you can hang the label on for. IQ is not a measure of intelligence, it's a measure of [I]relative aptitude[/I] and expression of several tasks/traits relating to general intelligence, and we have a rather extensive track record on the subject in question.
Can we throw Cheney into a pocket dimension hell jail for the rest of eternity yet?
[QUOTE=Disgruntled;49060130]Can we throw Cheney into a pocket dimension hell jail for the rest of eternity yet?[/QUOTE] I think that's what was in the man-sized safe he kept in his office
Is 27X seriously trying to argue using iq as one of his core points Using something like iq in a real debate would have you laughed out pretty quickly
yeah and a better president wouldn't have let the Dick get so hard either
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;49061261]Is 27X seriously trying to argue using iq as one of his core points Using something like iq in a real debate would have you laughed out pretty quickly[/QUOTE] He's arguing over his aptitude and that, as a president, he had none. Which he's completely correct. The legacy of his administration was tarnished for a reason: it sucked. It sucked either because he was/is a genuinely stupid human being and had no idea what he was doing because of his stupidity, or because he was just incompetent for the job and put into a position of power and authority he had no business being put in in the first place. Is anyone here disputing his point that Bush was in fact a terrible president though? That's the main thing here.
[QUOTE=Govna;49061481]He's arguing over his aptitude and that, as a president, he had none. Which he's completely correct. The legacy of his administration was tarnished for a reason: it sucked. It sucked either because he was/is a genuinely stupid human being and had no idea what he was doing because of his stupidity, or because he was just incompetent for the job and put into a position of power and authority he had no business being put in in the first place. Is anyone here disputing his point that Bush was in fact a terrible president though? That's the main thing here.[/QUOTE] I dont think he is dumb. Maybe a bit unsophisticated but I dont think he is dumb. Dumb elected officials may be a sign of one of the following: The president and those in charge are really just puppets for a group of people working behind the scenes or in a republic The voters are becoming incompetent as well.
[QUOTE=J!NX;49053848]wasn't his point to be hyperbolic in stating how Bush is an extremely average man? The average man has no place in being the president. The average man is a simpleton compared to who actually qualifies. Bush ruined his own reputation by just not being good enough.[/QUOTE] I think a guy with a low IQ could be a great president if he genuinely cared about his people and knew how to pick people for the right job. IQ means shit anyway, pretty sure the Carson the Nuerosurgeon is brilliant but look at what he says.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49062874]I think a guy with a low IQ could be a great president if he genuinely cared about his people and knew how to pick people for the right job. IQ means shit anyway, pretty sure the Carson the Nuerosurgeon is brilliant but look at what he says.[/QUOTE] You know I think I know why Benny says what he says. Surgery is a risky endeavor. Still a lot of luck involved. Wouldn't surprise me if he turned to religion as a means to "even the odds" so to speak as the same way sports pros have superstitious rituals to ensure a good out come in their playing seasons.
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