Another Civil Liberties Alert! Boston to use thermal cameras that can SEE IN YOUR HOUSE - Polidicks

Again, not really, but that's just what the :siren:Drudge Report:siren: headline said. :v: [url=http://boston.cbslocal.com/2011/04/11/thermal-cameras-show-too-much/]Source (with video)[/url] [quote=CBS Boston]BOSTON (CBS) – A thermal imaging project in the city of Boston has been put on hold because of privacy concerns. Lisa van der Pool of the Boston Business Journal reports. Boston officials had hoped to have aerial and street-level photos taken across about four square miles of the city this winter using [b]infrared cameras that would show heat loss in the city homes.[/b] Officials planned on sharing the photos and analysis with homeowners, and were hoping the findings would increase enrollment in efficiency programs and also create business opportunities. But, the project hit a snag when the American Civil Liberties Union of Massachusetts raised concerns that the infrared cameras would reveal information about what’s going on inside the homes. Sagewell’s cameras can take up to 20,000 images of homes per day. Despite the concern, towns outside of Boston have not had any problems with the program. Utilities and environmental groups from Springfield and Hamilton are in the process of initiating the same project in their communities.[/quote] These are not x-rays, Mr. Drudge. That is not how thermal imaging works.

To understand the mindset of Boston, take that Adult Swim viral marketing fiasco from a few years back and extrapolate everywhere. Sadly, that's how we roll.

[QUOTE=wuzzimu;29113208]To understand the mindset of Boston, take that Adult Swim viral marketing fiasco from a few years back and extrapolate everywhere. Sadly, that's how we roll.[/QUOTE] Good work, you're an idiot and didn't read the article. Please leave the Greater Boston area. This porgram actually seems like a good idea; if it were properly validated to not have any of these privacy concerns, it would be a really good way of getting people to see, in a totally new way, how their houses waste heat.

They'll probably use it to find grow-houses too

As long as it's entirely up to the homeowner if the images are taken, and the images aren't available to the police except via a warrant, I see no problem. But it sounds like at least one of those things isn't true here.

They do this in Canada to find grow-ops. I don't know if it's normal in the states though.

[QUOTE=jaredop;29113700]They'll probably use it to find grow-houses too[/QUOTE] Well they are illegal, and it is their job to find and shutdown illegal operations. You can't really bitch at them for doing something that they have no actual control over.

Oddly enough, I'm playing with a Fluke Ti-55 thermal camera.

[QUOTE=Second-gear-of-mgear;29113877]Well they are illegal, and it is their job to find and shutdown illegal operations. You can't really bitch at them for doing something that they have no actual control over.[/QUOTE] Whoa whoa whoa, you're completely fucking wrong there. If I have a grow house in my bedroom that's putting off a heat signature that this technology can detect, the authorities still can't do anything about it. They'd need a warrant, and they'd have to find out about my grow house through legal/official means within the realm of the rule of law and probable cause. Now, if my neighbor called the cops and said he could smell marijuana, and the cops came by and found that it was emanating from my house, they could get a drug dog and then a warrant. What if I have a server room in my house that's putting out the same amount of heat as a grow house, if not more. It would be entirely illegal for the police to search my home based on those heat signatures. I'd be open to unwanted, unfair, and unasked for harassment purely because of something going on within the privacy of my home. In short, this technology cannot be used to justify or enact probable cause, which is necessary for getting a warrant in the first place.

[QUOTE=animephreak135;29114009]Whoa whoa whoa, you're completely fucking wrong there. If I have a grow house in my bedroom that's putting off a heat signature that this technology can detect, the authorities still can't do anything about it. They'd need a warrant, and they'd have to find out about my grow house through legal/official means within the realm of the rule of law. Now, if my neighbor called the cops and said he could smell marijuana, and the cops came by and found that it was emanating from my house, they could get a drug dog and then a warrant. What if I have a server room in my house that's putting out the same amount of heat as a grow house, if not more. It would be entirely illegal for the police to search my home based on those heat signatures. I'd be open to unwanted, unfair, and unasked for harassment purely because of something going on within the privacy of my home.[/QUOTE] Well if you have a server room in your house, you tell the police about that when they knock on your door.

[QUOTE=Coffee;29114110]Well if you have a server room in your house, you tell the police about that when they knock on your door.[/QUOTE] I legally don't have to, shouldn't have to, and they legally can't use any collected information on heat signatures to search your home. End of story. Heat signature collection is not part of the predetermined channel of law that's used to establish probable cause. OH, and under the fourth amendment, search warrants have to be issued for reasonable and [b]SPECIFIC[/b] problems. Heat signatures aren't specific in the least bit. [quote]This means that a search warrant must be specific as to the specified object to be searched for and the place to be searched.[/quote]

Concerned about your privacy? Insulate your fucking house so you stop losing all that energy Everyone wins

[QUOTE=Murkrow;29114176]Concerned about your privacy? Insulate your fucking house so you stop losing all that energy Everyone wins[/QUOTE] Live in a well insulated underground bunker. It's at a constant temperature, due to the heat in the underground and the popo's can't use thermal imaging on your home. Besides the fact that you live in a bunker, only a few things are more badass then that.

Did anyone once think that not even the best thermal camera on the market could even get close as to penetrating a wall?

With the heat of my PC + Xbox produce when both on my room will look like a god damn thermal tank

I'd say Boston is doing a pretty good thing by doing this. Generally you have to have private companies do thermal scans of your house, while the city of Boston is taking it upon themselves to issue reports to every homeowner in the Greater Boston area of how much heat they're losing.

in the uk police use thermal imaging cameras to find "farms"

[QUOTE=Kagrenak;29113397]Good work, you're an idiot and didn't read the article. Please leave the Greater Boston area. This porgram actually seems like a good idea; if it were properly validated to not have any of these privacy concerns, it would be a really good way of getting people to see, in a totally new way, how their houses waste heat.[/QUOTE] If you would reread what I said, you'd notice that I'm not deriding the [i]program[/i], but rather those who are protesting it. Retrofitting is something which really needs to become mainstream, so it's annoying to see potential exposure blocked by frivolous privacy concerns. Really, optimizing energy use is a large part of my major, and more people need to hear about this stuff.

Why does everyone think this is a plan to find and hunt down people growing marijuana? It could very easily be exactly what they say it is for; to find houses giving off large amounts of heat [I]during winter[/I] and contact the owners to find ways to increase efficiency.

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;29115545]Why does everyone think this is a plan to find and hunt down people growing marijuana? It could very easily be exactly what they say it is for; to find houses giving off large amounts of heat [I]during winter[/I] and contact the owners to find ways to increase efficiency.[/QUOTE] Or just marijuana growers. Lock those marijuana growers up!

[QUOTE=animephreak135;29114009]Whoa whoa whoa, you're completely fucking wrong there. If I have a grow house in my bedroom that's putting off a heat signature that this technology can detect, the authorities still can't do anything about it. They'd need a warrant, and they'd have to find out about my grow house through legal/official means within the realm of the rule of law and probable cause. Now, if my neighbor called the cops and said he could smell marijuana, and the cops came by and found that it was emanating from my house, they could get a drug dog and then a warrant. What if I have a server room in my house that's putting out the same amount of heat as a grow house, if not more. It would be entirely illegal for the police to search my home based on those heat signatures. I'd be open to unwanted, unfair, and unasked for harassment purely because of something going on within the privacy of my home. In short, this technology cannot be used to justify or enact probable cause, which is necessary for getting a warrant in the first place.[/QUOTE] That is more than enough evidence to search on probable cause. But with that, they can only search open areas, nothing like a freezer or something.

So wait will they see a random red spot in the house if somebody has a boner? [editline]11th April 2011[/editline] What if somebody is having sex with the door closed and the room heats up? What happens then?

[QUOTE=Big Ben;29116926]What if somebody is having sex with the door closed and the room heats up? What happens then?[/QUOTE] they bust your ass for growing marijuana

[QUOTE=Second-gear-of-mgear;29116033]That is more than enough evidence to search on probable cause. But with that, they can only search open areas, nothing like a freezer or something.[/QUOTE] Not really. It's a fucking heat signature, for all they know it's your goddamn stove.

Let's just wait till they stop having sex to raid them, ... let's watch while at it.

AT least let them try it out, if it ends badly, a law suit will shut it down.

[img]http://welchinspections.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Big_house_thermal.29475931_std.jpg[/img] ???

[QUOTE=johan_sm;29118865][img_thumb]http://welchinspections.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Big_house_thermal.29475931_std.jpg[/img_thumb] ???[/QUOTE] Is that all....? WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS PANIC ATTACK ABOUT!?

[QUOTE=Second-gear-of-mgear;29116033]That is more than enough evidence to search on probable cause. But with that, they can only search open areas, nothing like a freezer or something.[/QUOTE] Open areas? Unless your doors are wide open, your house is not an "open area." Refer to my fourth amendment post. You can't debate this.

Reminds me of [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QkyfGJgcwQ&feature=player_embedded[/media]