French Communist Party to drop hammer and sickle in controversial decision
168 replies, posted
[t]http://imgkk.com/i/egl4.jpg[/t]
[url]http://www.france24.com/en/20130208-france-communist-party-drops-hammer-sickle-politics-left[/url]
[quote]The most widely-recognised symbol of communism worldwide – the Hammer and Sickle – will no longer appear on French Communist Party membership cards. The party faithful are worried the decision bodes ill for a party with deep roots in France.
The French Communist Party (PCF) has decided to drop the emblematic Hammer and Sickle from its membership cards, fuelling fears in the party’s rank and file that its ideology is being watered down to gain broader popular appeal.
“Everyone in the party is shocked,” PCF Paris Secretary Emmanuel Dang Tran told FRANCE INFO radio on Friday as the party prepared for its annual congress in the capital.[/quote]
Corrupted by the greedy hands of capitalism.
If "everyone is shocked" then surely the party would have voted against it
As long as they keep their values in tact. There can be no worse fate for a communist party than those of America and China, who sacrificed their ideology for popular support or power. The PCF ought to stick to its guns. There is a large left movement in western Europe today, and I think that the better tactic would not be to further alienate themselves from Communists through ending the all-important aesthetic of the workers' movement, but to ally themselves with a broader leftist movement like they are with the Left Front. The key is to be inclusive, not reformist, and to offer what they have to the greater movement instead of trying to integrate the movement into itself.
But then again, a symbol is just a symbol. Although the historical, political, ideological weight behind it is an important force and really, I think, ought to be preserved and used to its maximum advantage. It is the one globally recognized symbol of workers' solidarity that has always transcended boundaries. To dispose of it, I think, will only take the PCF farther from its ideological and historical roots.
[QUOTE]The French Communist Party (PCF) has decided to drop the emblematic Hammer and Sickle from its membership cards, fuelling fears in the party’s rank and file that its ideology is being watered down to gain broader popular appeal.[/QUOTE]
Fucking hipsters.
Anyway, that good. Hammer and sickle is a Soviet symbol.
[QUOTE=redhaven;39529979]Fucking hipsters.
Anyway, that good. Hammer and sickle is a Soviet symbol.[/QUOTE]
The Hammer and sickle is a marxist symbol.
Makes sense after all the red scare bullshit, it's not exactly a respected symbol in western countries.
the reason some communist or leftwing parties water things down is because they will never get into power
most people never vote for them, communist parties have traditionally done shit electorally
Why? When people see it they think communism, surely symbolism with such power would be a great way to promote their party, no?
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Hammer_and_sickle.svg/100px-Hammer_and_sickle.svg.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Milkdairy;39530032]The Hammer and sickle is a marxist symbol.[/QUOTE]
the hammer and sickle is used as a symbol for many leftist ideologies.
[editline]9th February 2013[/editline]
mostly communists, but some others incorporate the symbol as well.
[QUOTE=laserguided;39530551]Why? When people see it they think communism, surely symbolism with such power would be a great way to promote their party, no?
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Hammer_and_sickle.svg/100px-Hammer_and_sickle.svg.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
most people don't vote for communists
if they see a party that's overtly communist then ofc they won't vote for them
people see it in their own best interest not to vote for them
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39530644]most people don't vote for communists
if they see a party that's overtly communist then ofc they won't vote for them
people see it in their own best interest not to vote for them[/QUOTE]
which is quite ironic when people see it in their best interests to vote "conservative" or "liberal" instead.
The Hammer and Sickle originated during the Russian Revolution. Technically it's not even a Marxist symbol, if you believe that the Russian Revolution was not an accurate reflection of Marxism.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39530665]which is quite ironic when people see it in their best interests to vote "conservative" or "liberal" instead.[/QUOTE]
probably because those parties are less wrong
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39530685]probably because those parties are less wrong[/QUOTE]
ha
[editline]9th February 2013[/editline]
i would rather have communism, as flawed as that is, than the tyranny and colonialism of conservatism and liberalism.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39530696]ha
[editline]9th February 2013[/editline]
i would rather have communism, as flawed as that is, than the tyranny and colonialism of conservatism and liberalism.[/QUOTE]
communism is horribly flawed, i trust liberalism or conservatism more partly because they try to remain grounded with reality
i disagree entirely. conservatism and liberalism create a fantasy world where poverty and oppression are considered prosperity and liberty.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39530720]i disagree entirely. conservatism and liberalism create a fantasy world where poverty and oppression are considered prosperity and liberty.[/QUOTE]
communism creates a fantasy world where the unpleasant realities that psychology, economics and biology have brought us don't exist
the soviets even tried to peddle bullshit psuedoscientific biology
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39530720]i disagree entirely. conservatism and liberalism create a fantasy world where poverty and oppression are considered prosperity and liberty.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Communism has its flaws but not nearly as oppressive as conservatism and liberalism.
[QUOTE=Reimu;39530749]Agreed. Communism has its flaws but not nearly as oppressive as conservatism and liberalism.[/QUOTE]
pretty much all large scale implementations of it have resulted in authoritarian states
at least conservatives and liberals don't go around shooting people who oppose their farm being taken over
Go to Mass Debate
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39530744]communism creates a fantasy world where the unpleasant realities that psychology, economics and biology have brought us don't exist
the soviets even tried to peddle bullshit psuedoscientific biology[/QUOTE]
yea communism is sort of weird in some ways.
which means a lot when i say it's still way more sane than the absolute looniness of modern conservatism and liberalism.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39530761]pretty much all large scale implementations of it have resulted in authoritarian states
at least conservatives and liberals don't go around shooting people who oppose their farm being taken over[/QUOTE]
yea conservatives and liberals get the army and police to do it instead.
[QUOTE=Ericson666;39530768]Go to Mass Debate[/QUOTE]
[url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1238730[/url]
Probably one of the better threads.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39530761]pretty much all large scale implementations of it have resulted in authoritarian states
at least conservatives and liberals don't go around shooting people who oppose their farm being taken over[/QUOTE]
What about the Paris Commune, though?
Although I agree State Communism is inevitably doomed to become authoritarian.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39530800]yea communism is sort of weird in some ways.
which means a lot when i say it's still way more sane than the absolute looniness of modern conservatism and liberalism.[/quote]
the fuck? no it isnt
communism has been dogmatic in all implementations of it
what makes you think it'll be any different the next time?
plus the methodology marx used was psuedoscientific
[quote]yea conservatives and liberals get the army and police to do it instead.[/QUOTE]
no they use the legal system
the army and (secret) police is what commies use
[editline]9th February 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Reimu;39530837]What about the Paris Commune, though?[/QUOTE]
it failed
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39530844]the fuck? no it isnt
communism has been dogmatic in all implementations of it
what makes you think it'll be any different the next time?
plus the methodology marx used was psuedoscientific[/quote]
yea and conservatism/liberalism have been tyrannical and oppressive in all implementations.
[quote]no they use the legal system
the army and (secret) police is what commies use[/QUOTE]
state commies use the armies and secret police. anarchists don't have either.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39530844]the fuck? no it isnt
communism has been dogmatic in all implementations of it
what makes you think it'll be any different the next time?
plus the methodology marx used was psuedoscientific
[B]no they use the legal system
the army and (secret) police is what commies use[/B]
[editline]9th February 2013[/editline]
it failed[/QUOTE]
Make it legal to crack down on protesters, then move in your police force.
It has happened VERY much in the last decade.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39530876]yea and conservatism/liberalism have been tyrannical and oppressive in all implementations.[/quote]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque[/url]
[quote]state commies use the armies and secret police. anarchists don't have either.[/QUOTE]
no anarchist society has ever survived long
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39530844]it failed[/QUOTE]
Yes but not because it was inherently politically unfit. Although there were bureaucratic issues within its creation, it was relatively fully functional until military forces arrived.
[QUOTE=laserguided;39530882]Make it legal to crack down on protesters, then move in your police force.
It has happened VERY much in the last decade.[/QUOTE]
yeah, just shoot them before they actually assemble
wait that's what they did in the communist countries
[editline]9th February 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Reimu;39530912]Yes but not because it was inherently politically unfit. Although there were bureaucratic issues within its creation, it was relatively fully functional until military forces arrived.[/QUOTE]
so how come no other cities rose up at the time to see the revolution safeguarded?
why did the army not defect, or the revolution spread?
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