Pope Francis sides with county clerks who refuse to issue gay marriage licenses - Polidicks

[b]Govt. workers have right to refuse gay marriage licenses: pope[/b] Via [url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/28/us-pope-usa-idUSKCN0RS13320150928]Reuters[/url] ____________________ [quote][img]http://i.imgur.com/DDlDGWp.jpg[/img] [i]Pope Francis talks aboard the papal plane while en route to Italy September 28, 2015.[/i] - - - Pope Francis said on Monday government officials have a "human right" to refuse to discharge a duty, such as issuing marriage licenses to homosexuals, if they feel it violates their conscience. Speaking to reporters as he returned home from a 10-day trip to the United States and Cuba, Francis also repeated his condemnation of priests who had sexually abused children, saying the victims had been "crushed by evil". Although the Argentine-born pontiff delved into some of the United States' thorniest political debates during his visit, he never specifically referred to a controversy over same-sex marriages, which the Church firmly opposes. On the flight back to Rome, he was asked if he supported individuals, including government officials, who refuse to abide by some laws, such as issuing marriage licenses to gays. "Conscientious objection must enter into every juridical structure because it is a right," Francis said. Earlier this month a county official in the state of Kentucky, Kim Davis, went to jail because she refused to issue a marriage license to a gay couple following a Supreme Court decision to make homosexual marriage legal. Davis's case has taken on national significance in the 2016 presidential campaign, with one Republican contender, Mike Huckabee, holding rallies in favor of Davis, a Apostolic Christian, who has since joined the Republican party. "I can't have in mind all cases that can exist about conscientious objection but, yes, I can say that conscientious objection is a right that is a part of every human right," he said, speaking in Italian.[/quote] Well d'uh... of course he'd side with them, he's the damn Pope after all.

Not a fan of this guy.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786365]rofl and why not? Gays can get married but if people want the right to have nothing to do with gay marriage but like their otherwise acceptable job they're horrible and stupid, right?[/QUOTE] Because he's supposed to be a religious leader, not a politician.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48786369]Because he's supposed to be a religious leader, not a politician.[/QUOTE] Pope is a head of state.... of course hes going to be political....

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48786369]Because he's supposed to be a religious leader, not a politician.[/QUOTE] He's just saying that if they don't want to, they shouldn't be forced to if it goes against what they believe. It's the same thing as bars do, where they can refuse to serve you.

Not only that but at the International level the catholic church has almost always been a political entity to some capacity

[QUOTE=Maximo13;48786378]He's just saying that if they don't want to, they shouldn't be forced to if it goes against what they believe. It's the same thing as bars do, where they can refuse to serve you.[/QUOTE] Except this dumb bitch refusing to give out marriage licenses is not abiding by the law. If she doesn't want to accept gay marriage, she should work for a Church instead.

[QUOTE=Maximo13;48786378]He's just saying that if they don't want to, they shouldn't be forced to if it goes against what they believe. It's the same thing as bars do, where they can refuse to serve you.[/QUOTE] Well, as church and state should be seperated from all countries, I can't really see how the pope is in the right here.

[QUOTE=Maximo13;48786378]He's just saying that if they don't want to, they shouldn't be forced to if it goes against what they believe. It's the same thing as bars do, where they can refuse to serve you.[/QUOTE] Bars don't give you tax breaks, visitation rights, ect.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786399]So you can expect society to change for a minority (homosexuals) but not a majority (the religious). I'm not even religious and I'm supporting her. It's not like she took the job after the ruling and was like "by the way I'm not doing this." The job changed and required her to do something she found morally unacceptable. Don't know why gays deserve all these special privileges and ordinary people don't.[/QUOTE] They deserve [I]equal[/I] privilege. Not special. I think that's a pretty fucking basic request.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786399]Don't know why gays deserve all these special privileges and ordinary people don't.[/QUOTE] These aren's special privileges, these are privileges everyone else has.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786399]So you can expect society to change for a minority (homosexuals) but not a majority (the religious). I'm not even religious and I'm supporting her. It's not like she took the job after the ruling and was like "by the way I'm not doing this." The job changed and required her to do something she found morally unacceptable. Don't know why gays deserve all these special privileges and ordinary people don't.[/QUOTE] Special privileges of getting married? I'm pretty sure straight "ordinary" people get that too

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786399]So you can expect society to change for a minority (homosexuals) but not a majority (the religious). I'm not even religious and I'm supporting her. It's not like she took the job after the ruling and was like "by the way I'm not doing this." The job changed and required her to do something she found morally unacceptable. Don't know why gays deserve all these special privileges and ordinary people don't.[/QUOTE] If you don't like your job, quit. Same concept in non-elected positions. If upper management (I.E. the government) makes changes you hate with every fiber of your being, find a new job.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48786369]Because he's supposed to be a religious leader, not a politician.[/QUOTE] Everyone says that, nobody has any idea what they actually mean. The Pope's always been political. Always. He's the supreme leader of the Catholic Church, which is a monolithic organization with more money and power than many of the world's governments. The Church even owns a small country in the middle of Italy, which is completely sovereign and ruled by the Pope. Of course he's going to be political. He's a politician. Granted, I think he's wrong here (and you can say that people are wrong, you know), because he doesn't fully understand that county clerks are elected officials here, and cannot be fired. He mentions specifically conscientious objection, but he doesn't say that the government shouldn't be able to fire you for conscientiously objecting. However, what we get stuck with here in the States is a situation where a county clerk refuses to do his job, and cannot be fired or removed. I think he's more saying that the government can't say "You have to do this, or we're going to kill you and your family." That would be a violation of human rights, no matter who you are. They can't force a county clerk to hand out marriage licenses. However, he isn't saying that these people should remain in their positions as county clerks if they disobey the law. I don't think it's siding with so much as it is saying that "Yes, you can oppose this, but don't expect to be able to keep your job if you're not doing it." It's like how I can conscientiously object to Selective Service, but I'm still going to go to jail if I don't sign up.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786399]So you can expect society to change for a minority (homosexuals) but not a majority (the religious).[/QUOTE] Yes. Rights exist to protect the minority from the majority. If most people want to enslave the blacks again, does that make it a-okay? She does have the right to refuse. But in doing so she needs to resign. Otherwise she is just not doing her job, and she is paid by taxpayer money.

I just hope people don't take the fact he doesn't support gay marriage as a reason to dislike him. I understand how you feel but literally every Pope HAS to say they don't agree with it, if he even showed the smallest sign of support he'd get neglected to the Moon.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786399]Don't know why gays deserve all these special privileges and ordinary people don't.[/QUOTE] good lord

[QUOTE=ClauAmericano;48786414]I just hope people don't take the fact he doesn't support gay marriage as a reason to dislike him. I understand how you feel but literally every Pope HAS to say they don't agree with it, if he even showed the smallest sign of support he'd get neglected to the Moon.[/QUOTE] I don't think this is the case. He's done all sorts of things that a lot of bishops haven't liked, but there's no hint that he's just trying to toe the line when he talks about gay marriage. [editline]29th September 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786418]Lol yeah okay because quitting and finding a new job is just a simple task that can be done overnight.[/QUOTE] If it's that tough maybe she should be doing her job.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786418]Lol yeah okay because quitting and finding a new job is just a simple task that can be done overnight. The portion of her job could have been delegated to somebody else instead of throwing the woman into jail. The whole thing is stupid.[/QUOTE] She refused to do her very important job, and thus broke the law. The only stupid part was her refusing to do what she had signed up for.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786418]Lol yeah okay because quitting and finding a new job is just a simple task that can be done overnight. The portion of her job could have been delegated to somebody else instead of throwing the woman into jail. The whole thing is stupid.[/QUOTE] Then why should she get paid with the people's money if she isn't even doing her job?

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786399] Don't know why gays deserve all these special privileges and ordinary people don't.[/QUOTE] Marriage is a special right that's only exclusive to gays now?

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786418]Lol yeah okay because quitting and finding a new job is just a simple task that can be done overnight. The portion of her job could have been delegated to somebody else instead of throwing the woman into jail. The whole thing is stupid.[/QUOTE] Contempt of court is still contempt of court. Beliefs aside, she's in an elected position where her job duties are governed by the court system. She's not abiding by said legally mandated duties. That's illegal.

[QUOTE=Viva;48786429]Marriage is a special right that's only exclusive to gays now?[/QUOTE] Didn't you hear the news? When the gays got to marry that eroded my right to straight marriage and now I have to do it in secret.

[QUOTE=Levelog;48786435]Didn't you hear the news? When the gays got to marry that eroded my right to straight marriage and now I have to do it in secret.[/QUOTE] Oh deary me! What's next, dog marriage?

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786418]Lol yeah okay because quitting and finding a new job is just a simple task that can be done overnight. The portion of her job could have been delegated to somebody else instead of throwing the woman into jail. The whole thing is stupid.[/QUOTE] Now see that's special, delegating a specific task for one group of people to do exactly the same job the former is supposed to do. Her job was to issue licenses of marriage. Plain and simple. She didn't agree with giving licenses to gay couples so she refused to. It's the exact same by very definition of her not given a license out to a hetero couple. You can't pick an choose. If you disagree and refuse to do your job you're refusing to do your job and shouldn't continue to be employed at that job.

[QUOTE=Rika-chan;48786393]Bars don't give you tax breaks, visitation rights, ect.[/QUOTE] Bars can't use knights to fuck your shit up.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786441]It was poor phrasing. Surprised I haven't been banned for it honestly. I have no problem with gay marriage, I just don't like that she was jailed because a new law was passed after the fact and she found it morally objectionable. In the future, hirees should be expected to at least be alright enough with it to do the job, but just throwing someone in jail for not doing it who was already there just seems kinda wrong to me. Feels like we sacrificed the rights of some for the rights of another.[/QUOTE] At worst, they sacrificed the rights of one person for the rights of millions.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786441]It was poor phrasing. Surprised I haven't been banned for it honestly. I have no problem with gay marriage, I just don't like that she was jailed because a new law was passed after the fact and she found it morally objectionable. In the future, hirees should be expected to at least be alright enough with it to do the job, but just throwing someone in jail for not doing it who was already there just seems kinda wrong to me. Feels like we sacrificed the rights of some for the rights of another.[/QUOTE] She doesn't have the right to refuse to do what her job entails as a public servant without resigning and expecting zero reprimand, nor should she.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48786461]I guess. I just feel like she could have been fired or someone could have handled that portion of her job instead. Jail sounded excessive. I understand she was breaking the law by not doing her job, but there's a clear moral conflict here for her and I feel that should have been considered. It wasn't just "I don't feel like doing that so I won't." I've heard this woman speak and I think she's a moron but I just don't want to see any one group get preferential treatment.[/QUOTE] She couldn't have been fired because she's in an elected position. Like I've said, if she was really that morally conflicted, resigning is her choice.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;48786453]She doesn't have the right to refuse to do what her job entails as a public servant without resigning and expecting zero reprimand, nor should she.[/QUOTE] When it comes down to it, its raw discrimination and can be likened to rejecting to issue a license to a hetero mixed raced couple or others of a different religion. So it's not gays being given special treatment nor is it really about gays themselves but just someone refusing to do their job to the public that they were hired to do just because they disagreed. You can disagree, but if your job is to serve the public and your morals come before it, then you shouldn't continue doing that job as you're being selfish and not doing what you're paid to do.