Chivalry in the 21st Century - Relevant or Archaic?
42 replies, posted
For those unfamiliar with the word, Chivalry was originally the name for the gentlemanly code of conduct observed by knights in medieval times. Today, it instead refers to small acts of respect by men toward women.
The postmodern human being is raised from a young age to understand that men and women are equal in all ways, and that the ideas of traditional gender roles are outdated and bigoted. While I agree completely with this philosophy, I often still find myself, as a male, acting in accordance with my upbringing. I'm Indian by birth, and I was raised in the Middle East. My family is Catholic (Though I am not) and they're still quite traditional in many ways. I was not taught that being a male gave me any extra rights. On the contrary, I was raised to take on additional responsibility and to be strong both physically and emotionally. This strength, my father said, was never to be used for personal gain, but instead to protect and provide for those who needed it.
I've been in Canada for six years now, and I've developed the larger part of my identity and worldview here. I suffer under no bigoted delusions (Or so I like to think) and I have always seen women as equals. Do not get me wrong.
Let's use dating as an example. When I take a woman out on a date, I help her out of the car, I hold doors open for her, and I insist on picking up the tab at the end of the night. I was recently surprised to discover that a small percentage of women actually find this sort of behavior offensive.
In hindsight, that particular incident may have had something to do with the fact that the lady I'd been dining was one of those radical feminists.
I thought I'd make a post about it on FP and see what people who had been raised from birth in Western countries thought of chivalry.
Nope nevermind.
Anyway you know you can hold doors open and stuff for just about anyone and not just women, right?
Well, yeah. And I do.
I personally practice chivalry because that's how I was raised. I totally see women as equals, I just do it because it's how I've always done things. I don't think women should take this as an offense. Honestly though, feminists are the worst type of people. They take everything the wrong way and I don't think they really want equality.
I'm all about being good-mannered and respectful but some of the "chivalrous" things that I see people do seem overly self-sacrificing and ridiculous. I open doors for anyone (men or women) if I'm the first to the door, among other things.
This one time I was at a lake with my friends. This one girl that was with us wanted to swim, but wanted to wear a t-shirt in the water (what the reason was, I don't know; she wasn't fat or anything). So she goes up to my friend, with a cute face and asks nicely "Can I use your t-shirt to swim?" My friend, who was so "chivalrous," gave up his only t-shirt because he saw it as gentlemanly or whatever. That wasn't the first time she was taking advantage, and in my eyes, he was letting himself get stepped all over by her. It wasn't the first or second time she used him either. I thought it was pathetic.
So I don't know. I've seen courtesy/manners/respect/etc, but I'm not sure if I've ever seen chivalry. However, if chivalry means being spineless and bending over just to please some girl, then yea, I've seen that. I'm more of an equal oppertunity person.
It's relevant. Treat everyone with the same respect unless you don't like that specific individual.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;18632507] Honestly though, feminists are the worst type of people. They take everything the wrong way and I don't think they really want equality.[/QUOTE]
lol that's kind of a wild generalization
i consider myself a feminist
what if it is only to score chicks, nothing wrong with that
[editline]06:51PM[/editline]
Just realize that there is a difference between being kind or "chivalrous" and placing women on an impossibly high pedestal for whatever reason because it's hard to tell the difference.
Chivalry is dead.
Isn't there a song about that?
[QUOTE=Performual;18632517]I'm all about being good-mannered and respectful but some of the "chivalrous" things that I see people do seem overly self-sacrificing and ridiculous. I open doors for anyone (men or women) if I'm the first to the door, among other things.
This one time I was at a lake with my friends. This one girl that was with us wanted to swim, but wanted to wear a t-shirt in the water (what the reason was, I don't know; she wasn't fat or anything). So she goes up to my friend, with a cute face and asks nicely "Can I use your t-shirt to swim?" My friend, who was so "chivalrous," gave up his only t-shirt because he saw it as gentlemanly or whatever. That wasn't the first time she was taking advantage, and in my eyes, he was letting himself get stepped all over by her. It wasn't the first or second time she used him either. I thought it was pathetic.
So I don't know. I've seen courtesy/manners/respect/etc, but I'm not sure if I've ever seen chivalry. However, if chivalry means being spineless and bending over just to please some girl, then yea, I've seen that. I'm more of an equal oppertunity person.[/QUOTE]
that's not overly self-sacrificing, that's being smart
[QUOTE=Conscript;18632723]that's not overly self-sacrificing, that's being smart[/QUOTE]
Well then you must be a chivalrous kind of fellow.
[QUOTE=Performual;18632770]Well then you must be a chivalrous kind of fellow.[/QUOTE]
conscript the chivalrous. it fits
when the lower class overthrow the upper class i'll share my rations with you baby
Also I don't think chivalry is exclusive to treatment of women even by todays definition.
be nice to her till she likes you then tell her to get back in the kitchen and make you some damn pie. by that time it's already too late youre married and you cant do anything about it... if you live in the middle east :smug:sface
I think it refers to men's treatment of women specifically.
Something Knights thought up to pass the time when they didn't have a war to fight (Take that, Samurai!)
Granted, I perform Chivalry, but that's just because of my upbringing, and I'm damn well teaching that upbringing to my children.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;18632994]Something Knights thought up to pass the time when they didn't have a war to fight (Take that, Samurai!)
Granted, I perform Chivalry, but that's just because of my upbringing, and I'm damn well teaching that upbringing to my children.[/QUOTE]
if you teach chivalry to your daughters they'll be lesbians so you are Aokay in my book bro terrorist fist-bump me
Eh I don't really go out of my way to be nice to a women, I give everyone equal respect. Its the modern age, I think women are quite capable of opening their own doors.
If it'll make her bang you, why not?
I'm kind and chivalric to women, but they've always seen it offensively. I offer to hold the door open to one girl, and to my surprise says to me, "I can open it myself, you know."
Then there's other times where women are completely flabbergasted by me opening the door to them. They go into shock for someone being so courteous.
It depends on the women, I think. Some girls like it, some don't.
Women enjoy victimising themselves.
When a man is being chivilrous to a woman, she sees it as a good opportunity to take the role of a scrupulous feminist and claim that she's being treated inferiorly.
[QUOTE=Symmetry;18638054]Women enjoy victimising themselves.
When a man is being chivilrous to a woman, she sees it as a good opportunity to take the role of a scrupulous feminist and claim that she's being treated inferiorly.[/QUOTE]
This.
If we don't open the door for her, we're insensitive pricks, if we do, we're patriarchal sexists.
[editline]12:31PM[/editline]
There was nothing chivalrous about knights in the middle ages, though. Chivalry is 18th century.
[QUOTE=Symmetry;18638054]Women enjoy victimising themselves.
When a man is being chivilrous to a woman, she sees it as a good opportunity to take the role of a scrupulous feminist and claim that she's being treated inferiorly.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Virtanen;18638100]This.
If we don't open the door for her, we're insensitive pricks, if we do, we're patriarchal sexists.
[editline]12:31PM[/editline]
There was nothing chivalrous about knights in the middle ages, though. That shit's 18th century.[/QUOTE]
I find it entertaining to see men commenting about things they only have wild imaginative comments about it.
I also enjoy the almost paranoid rantings. Yes, every woman is a blood sucking succubus that's out to get you. You have no flaws.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;18632507]I personally practice chivalry because that's how I was raised. [/QUOTE]
Let me laught. Chivalry is about ridding a horse on the battlefield.
-snip-
[QUOTE=thisispain;18638123]Yes, every woman is a blood sucking succubus that's out to get you. You have no flaws.[/QUOTE]
Yes, that's exactly what I meant.
Chivalry is a load of crap. I treat everyone equally, I don't give women any more respect than I do with everyone else.
[QUOTE=Virtanen;18638180]Yes, that's exactly what I meant.[/QUOTE]
I go by what I see. Having Mark Twain in your avatar though makes me believe you are a bit smarter than that.
Piety is so rare in this age. You're a good man, Archangel. Helping others is the bedrock of society, and keeps the stones of the hut together.
But then again, as Hubert Cumberdale said (that guy above thisispain), treating everyone equally can also be important.
[QUOTE=thisispain;18638123]I find it entertaining to see men commenting about things they only have wild imaginative comments about it.
I also enjoy the almost paranoid rantings. Yes, every woman is a blood sucking succubus that's out to get you. You have no flaws.[/QUOTE]
None of us have implied that we're unflawed. What we're trying to say is that there's nothing flawed about being polite, and that these self-righteous feminist types have no right to feel offended by some mild everyday "chivalry".
I admit that I did generalise women in my post, but it's pretty well implied by the thread that I'm only generalising a certain type of woman.
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