• Is this it? Rebels continue to intensify 'all-out assault' on Damascus, as regime deploys tanks, hel
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[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18866265[/url] [quote=BBC News][B]Fighting is intensifying across the Syrian capital Damascus, where the military has deployed tanks and helicopters, activists say.[/B] Shooting was reported in one of the main central streets and a square housing the Central Bank. Rebel forces say they have launched an all-out assault on the capital, calling it Operation Damascus Volcano. UN envoy Kofi Annan has held talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Moscow over the crisis. Mr Putin told reporters after meeting Mr Annan that Russia still backed the envoy's six-point peace plan, which called for a ceasefire and talks between the government and opposition. Russia has consistently refused to back any measures that hint at intervention in Syria, or ask for Mr Assad to step down. The UN has until Friday to renew the mandate for observers in Syria, and Western nations want Russia to back tougher measures to stop the fighting. In other developments: • Defector Nawaf al-Fares tells the BBC the regime has colluded with al-Qaeda in bomb attacks, and would not hesitate to use chemical weapons if it is cornered • Iraq warns its citizens to flee the violence, hours after the bodies of two killed journalists were handed over by the Syrian authorities [B]'Decisive battle'[/B] Violence is continuing to spread across Syria and in the capital Damascus as rebels - now better-equipped and more organised - confront the army and government-backed militia. The rebel Free Syrian Army said it had launched Operation Damascus Volcano, and has called for an escalation of attacks on regime targets and the blocking of main roads all around the country. One of the biggest and most organised opposition groups, the Muslim Brotherhood, has called on all Syrians to join what it called a decisive battle. Witnesses say the government's military deployment in Damascus is the biggest since protests against President Bashar al-Assad's rule began in March last year. Clashes were reported in a major thoroughfare, Baghdad Street, the first time fighting has reached central Damascus since the conflict began. Also, machine-gun fire was reported in nearby Sabaa Bahrat square, site of the Central Bank and scene of several major pro-government demonstrations. Activists reported continued clashes on the south-western side of the city, including in Midan. "The army is shelling al-Midan hysterically; the collapsing regime has gone mad," one activist told AFP. Fighting is also said to have broken out on the other side, at Barzeh and Qaboun. Attack helicopters were seen there firing rockets for the first time since the uprising began. State media said security forces were pursuing remnants of a "terrorist gang" in Nahr Eisha. [B]'Wounded wolf'[/B] Syria is known to have a significant stockpile of chemical weapons. There have been growing concerns in neighbouring countries and among Western governments about the security of such weapons should the government fall. Asked if he thought President Assad might use chemical weapons against the opposition, Mr Fares told BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner that he would not rule it out, describing Mr Assad as "a wounded wolf". Mr Fares's claim that Sunni Muslim militants in al-Qaeda are collaborating with a government dominated by those from the minority Allawite sect will surprise many. Challenged on his view that al-Qaeda was collaborating with the government despite this, Mr Fares said: "There is enough evidence in history that lots of enemies meet when their interests meet." He added: "Al-Qaeda is searching for space to move and means of support, the regime is looking for ways to terrorise the Syrian people." Mr Fares held senior positions in the ruling Baath Party and powerful security services, and served as governor in several provinces. "It doesn't occur to any Syrian, not only me, that Bashar al-Assad will let go of power through political interventions... He will be ousted only by force," Mr Fares said. Mr Fares was dismissive of Mr Annan's visit to Russia, saying success there was "impossible". "Several months have passed and... the regime hasn't implemented a single article of [Kofi Annan's] plan." [img]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/61617000/gif/_61617317_damascus2_624x550.gif[/img][/quote] Also, the head of UN humanitarian affairs [url=http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/07/20127178247539495.html]has implied[/url] that war crimes charges may be forthcoming, now that the conflict has been declared a civil war [quote=Al Jazeera]The head of the UN humanitarian affairs has said parties to the Syrian conflict should avoid civilian injury and loss of life or risk being charged with crimes against humanity. In a statement released on Monday, Valerie Amos said the Syrian government and those fighting it should uphold their obligation to distinguish between civilians and combatants, adding that "directing attacks against civilians constitutes a war crime". "The escalating conflict in Syria is having a devastating physical and psychological impact on hundreds of thousands of people," Amos said. "As the International Committee of the Red Cross has now described the situation as an armed conflict, international humanitarian law applies across Syria in areas where there is fighting." Amos said humanitarian agencies had managed to increase assistance in the last month despite the "very dangerous and complex operating environment". "Food aid is now reaching 850,000 people, and more than 100,000 displaced people have received mattresses, blankets, kitchen sets and other vital supplies in the last four weeks," she said. Amos's comments came as UN envoy Kofi Annan continued his diplomatic mission in Russia to try to resolve the 16-month conflict which has left at least 14,000 people dead, according to UN estimates.[/quote]
Without outside help I think the rebels won't last long. We really don't know how they can do. Do they have defected military like in Libya? How much supplies do they have? For all we know its an armed mob trying to fight a professional army. I'm rooting for the rebels but honestly it doesn't look good.
[QUOTE]Defector Nawaf al-Fares tells the BBC the regime has colluded with al-Qaeda in bomb attacks[/QUOTE] Wait, so AQ is on both sides, gov't and opposition?
[QUOTE=Disotrtion;36810215]Wait, so AQ is on both sides, gov't and opposition?[/QUOTE] Al-Qaeda has never really been a coherent organization. Since they operate in cells, it's not uncommon for different groups to be operating against another. At least, that's how I understand it.
Watch Assad use Sarin gas.
[QUOTE=Arachnidus;36810373]Al-Qaeda has never really been a coherent organization. Since they operate in cells, it's not uncommon for different groups to be operating against another. At least, that's how I understand it.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I can see Lebanese/Iranian AQ fighting for govt, and Iraqi/Saudi/Libyan AQ fighting for the opposition.
The Syrian population is very likely not going to give up any time soon. They have decided to either live free or die trying and the rebels will not stop the fight until every single one of them is dead.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;36810637]The Syrian population is very likely not going to give up any time soon. They have decided to either live free or die trying and the rebels will not stop the fight [B]until every single one of them is dead.[/B][/QUOTE] Well that's the problem actually, this might be the case soon. Shame on the west if we just sit there while they're getting their asses kicked by the Syrian army.
[QUOTE=-Get_A_Life-;36810684]Well that's the problem actually, this might be the case soon. Shame on the west if we just sit there while they're getting their asses kicked by the Syrian army.[/QUOTE] We can't exactly do like we did in Libya, we messed it up when we were supposed to enforce no-flight zone but instead ended up giving free air support for the rebels.
[QUOTE=smeismastger;36810810]We can't exactly do like we did in Libya, we messed it up when we were supposed to enforce no-flight zone but instead ended up giving free air support for the rebels.[/QUOTE] There was no mandate to enforce strictly JUST a no-fly zone. It also included using [B]any means necessary to prevent civilian casualties without having boots on the ground[/B]. This was under a UN charter as well and it justified all necessary (and legal) form of intervention that was given by all supporting nations. I fail to see how anything we've done in Libya was considered "wrong" or unjust as it was regulated within the bounds of the UN resolution for intervention. It was a success for the UN and NATO.
[QUOTE=Chernarus;36810379]Watch Assad use Sarin gas.[/QUOTE] Assuming he has any. If he did use any he'd get bum fucked by NATO, I think he'll play it safe here.
[QUOTE=Webby2020;36809980]Without outside help I think the rebels won't last long. We really don't know how they can do. Do they have defected military like in Libya? How much supplies do they have? For all we know its an armed mob trying to fight a professional army. I'm rooting for the rebels but honestly it doesn't look good.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure myself, but I wouldn't rule out the rebels are being covertly supplied by the CIA or other such organizations from the West. Hell I recall Libya sending fighters their way.
Does anyone know if those helicopters are the ones Russia transported into the country a few months ago?
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36811204]Assuming he has any. If he did use any he'd get bum fucked by NATO, I think he'll play it safe here.[/QUOTE] Like how he got into this mess in the first place? Like how he continues to kill innocent people? Like how he let the Turkish airplanes destroyed, without even going for some negotiations about this?
[QUOTE=GlebGuy;36811701]Like how he got into this mess in the first place? Like how he continues to kill innocent people? Like how he let the Turkish airplanes destroyed, without even going for some negotiations about this?[/QUOTE] WMD's are generally seen as much more serious than any of them.
[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;36811627]I'm not sure myself, but I wouldn't rule out the rebels are being covertly supplied by the CIA or other such organizations from the West. Hell I recall Libya sending fighters their way.[/QUOTE] It has been openly stated by US officials that some rebels were provided with [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/26/world/middleeast/us-and-turkey-to-step-up-nonlethal-aid-to-syrian-rebels.html"]communications equipment, and humanitarian aid[/URL]. It is also known that the CIA has trained some rebels and assisted the FSA in developing organized units. [B]Qatar[/B] and [B]Saudi Arabia[/B] have both shipped weapons to FSA, according to the Syrian army these weapons include American manufactured M4 rifles. Saudia Arabia is also the largest financial supporter of the FSA. [B]Libya[/B] sent a battalion of fighters by ships, however not all of them arrived because some ships were intercepted at the border by Syrian Navy and forced back. [B]Jordan[/B] has not supplied the rebels directly, but is a US ally who could be involved in efforts to supply FSA. It is known that in the event of Assad's collapse, Jordanian special forces will be immediately deployed into Syria via helicopter/plane in order to secure chemical weapons such as Scud missiles, before they can fall into AQ or rebel hands. [B]Israel[/B] has upped its intelligence gathering of the Syrian Army's movements, and recently stated the [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/18/world/middleeast/israel-says-syria-pulls-troops-from-golan-to-suppress-revolt-elsewhere.html"]Syria has withdrawn troops from the Golan Heights[/URL] to suppress rebellion elsewhere. Israel is especially nervous because Israel and Syria are technically at a state of war, and Iran is a close ally of Syria. [B]Turkey[/B] has give the FSA humanitarian aid, including cross-border medical care. Turkey has not supplied weapons or training, but has allowed Saudi Arabia to send arms to Syria via Turkey. Turkey has deployed its military along the border in the aftermath of the F-4 incident. [B]Iraq[/B] has not assisted the FSA. It is known that Iran flies ammunition and weapons over Iraq to Syria, and Iraq cannot intercept the cargo planes because Iraq has no airforce. Iraq's open border has allowed Iraqis to join FSA, and AQ to enter Syria. That's about all I can think of.
[QUOTE=Chernarus;36810379]Watch Assad use Sarin gas.[/QUOTE] It's funny how these deluded threats of chemical and nuclear weapons plays a big part in manipulating peoples views of a specific country. History repeats itself.. and in the end no weapons of mass destruction are ever found.
[QUOTE=Stalk;36812706]It's funny how these deluded threats of chemical and nuclear weapons plays a big part in manipulating peoples views of a specific country. History repeats itself.. and in the end no weapons of mass destruction are ever found.[/QUOTE] The only issue is that Syria has bunkers dedicated for storing these weapons. Look at Libya and their mustard gas.
[QUOTE=-Get_A_Life-;36810684]Well that's the problem actually, this might be the case soon. Shame on the west if we just sit there while they're getting their asses kicked by the Syrian army.[/QUOTE] Shame on the West? Shame on the East! Blame Russia and China for stopping any attempts at intervention.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;36812723]The only issue is that Syria has bunkers dedicated for storing these weapons. Look at Libya and their mustard gas.[/QUOTE] I'm sure every country have those kind of bunkers. But the lack of evidence that these weapons truly are in Syrias possesion is in my opinion more worrying then the weapons themselves. Even if they have sarin gas, it would be absolutely pointless to use them.
I can't imagine how terrifying it must be living in a war zone. I hope this ends soon.
The us and others probably have SF on the ground working with the rebels. The main job of SF are to train/work with rebel and local militas.
The rebels are not organized enough to really stand up against Assad's army. In Libya the rebels were not only supplied by the west but they were also rather well-organized, having a chain of command including defected Libyan generals and commanders, a somewhat coherent fighting force and an actual front to fight at. The Syrian rebels don't really have much of any of that.
According to the Guardian's [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/17/syria-crisis-damascus-clashes-live]liveblog[/url], rebels are claiming to have brought down a regime helicopter
[QUOTE=Stalk;36813044]I'm sure every country have those kind of bunkers. But the lack of evidence that these weapons truly are in Syrias possesion is in my opinion more worrying then the weapons themselves. Even if they have sarin gas, it would be absolutely pointless to use them.[/QUOTE] A recent Syrian defector "Syria's ex-ambassador to Iraq, the most senior politician so far to defect to the Opposition" says they have chemical weapons and will use them if they have to. [quote]NAWEF FARES, DIPLOMATIC DEFECTOR (voiceover translation): There is some information, unconfirmed information of course, that chemical weapons have been used partially in Homs. However, I have absolute conviction that if the circle of the people of Syria becomes tighter on the regime, the regime will not hesitate to use chemical weapons.[/quote] [url]http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2012/s3547963.htm[/url] [editline]17th July 2012[/editline] Same guy: [quote]In an interview with the BBC, Fares, the most senior official to defect, was darker, saying Assad is willing to fight to stay in power "even if he will have to eradicate the entire Syrian people." Fares also said that Assad was a "like wounded wolf" and if he continues to be cornered, he might use chemical weapons. "There is information, unconfirmed information, that chemical weapons have been used in Homs," he said.[/quote] [url]http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/07/16/156878129/syrian-defector-regime-will-only-go-by-force[/url] Another interview by CNN: [url]http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/16/highest-ranking-syrian-defector-talks-to-cnns-ivan-watson/[/url]
So rebels/terrorists will be finally suppressed, and all of you will forget about this conflict by next 4 months (or less). IF Syria falls for any reason, my only concern is what happens to the chemical weapon arsenal. You can guess what it would mean if terrorists got hold of it in the chaos.
Chemical weapons are very risky even to his own troops. If Assad rolls out the chemical weapons he's gonna have much bigger trouble keeping his them loyal to his regime than he has currently, a lot of soldiers will be defecting before they willingly take on the risk of mustard gas exposure.
Turtle Dicks! They found our secret lair
They must be really confident to be launching an assault on the capital. One can only hope that confidence was not misplaced.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;36813996]They must be really confident to be launching an assault on the capital. One can only hope that confidence was not misplaced.[/QUOTE] Confident... or desperate.
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