Poland risks losing EU voting rights in dispute over reforms to judiciary - Polidicks

[QUOTE]The EU is widely expected to trigger a process that could ultimately see Poland stripped of its voting rights in Brussels, with patience wearing thin over reforms that are said to be a threat to the independence of the country’s judiciary. If a first step in the shape of a formal warning is taken against Poland’s rightwing government on Wednesday, it will be an unprecedented act against a member state and exacerbate a growing sense of crisis over the country’s membership of the bloc. It could also prove highly awkward for Theresa May, who will be in Warsaw for a UK-Poland summit on Thursday, at which she hopes to push forward her vision of a post-Brexit trading relationship with the rest of Europe. The British prime minister, who will be travelling with the chancellor, Philip Hammond, and the foreign secretary, Boris Johnson, is likely to be asked which side of the argument she supports. The UK government has been ambiguous over its position, due to concerns that Brussels should not be meddling in domestic affairs. While keen advocates of independent judicial systems, the British government also wants to build alliances as it attempts to grow support for May’s pursuit of a “deep and special” trade deal with the EU. A row over the Polish government’s reforms to the country’s judiciary has been rolling on for two years but appears to have come to a head in the wake of the Polish senate’s decision last Friday to approve legislation giving the executive greater control of the supreme Court andnational council of the judiciary, which appoints judges. Mateusz Morawiecki, who took over as Poland’s prime minister earlier this month, has defended the judicial changes pursued by his predecessor from the Law and Justice (PiS) party. He confirmed last week that he expected the article 7 decision on Wednesday to go against his government. The launching of article 7, a never-before-used sanction, has been put on the agenda of a meeting on Wednesday of the European commission’s 28 commissioners, led by Jean-Claude Juncker. The commission’s vice-president, Frans Timmermans, is scheduled to address reporters in the afternoon. If agreement is reached within the commission on Wednesday, they would offer a reasoned proposal to the member states to formally issue a warning to Poland that fundamental values were at “serious risk”. Should at least 22 of the 28 member states then vote in favour, a warning would be issued. Poland would be given several weeks to respond ahead of potential further sanctions. The most serious sanction possible under article 7 would be to suspend the member state of its voting rights in the council of ministers, but that would require unanimity among the member states. Hungary’s rightwing regime has insisted it would never support such a move. Timmermans warned in the summer that the EU was perilously close to launching article 7 over the reforms, which he described as a danger to the integrity of the internal market, as well the Polish people.[/QUOTE] [URL]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/19/poland-risks-losing-eu-voting-rights-dispute-reforms-judiciary[/URL]

Good. It's only right that if an EU country doesn't meet the required democratic standards the union demands, its power is diminished within it.

Makes sense to me, an independent judiciary is crucial to the health of a democracy and Poland's attempts to undermine that are worrying. All that is happening here is that sanctions are being discussed/voted on due to a nation backsliding on the democratic principles of the EU?

Literally the same exact thing is happening is Bulgaria, except nothing is being done about it. It's too convenient having a government that never goes against the big boys' word, never mind that the country has been turned into a fiefdom, media freedom has been squashed and European money is being stolen by hundreds of millions. The only reason the Polish government is getting flak is because they don't toe the line where the EU wants them to (refugees, right wingers, etc). Fucking hypocrites.

Ah, my country's still full of idiots in power. It would be unnatural for them to just be competent, at least a bit. Thanks for possibly fucking up my future, PiS.

[QUOTE=Mifil;52990197]Ah, my country's still full of idiots in power. It would be unnatural for them to just be competent, at least a bit. Thanks for possibly fucking up my future, PiS.[/QUOTE] The good news is that, at least for now, Poland's still in the EU so you have freedom of movement. Until Poland starts talking Article 50 or the rest of the EU starts talking about ejecting it, your future's not completely fucked. I hope Poland figures out that it's being used as a pawn to destabilize Europe. Putin yearns to return to pre-1990 Russia; guess Poland's status back then.

[quote]The UK government has been ambiguous over its position, due to concerns that Brussels should not be meddling in domestic affairs. While keen advocates of independent judicial systems, the British government also wants to build alliances as it attempts to grow support for May’s pursuit of a “deep and special” trade deal with the EU.[/quote] I'm sure glad we took back control so that we could suck and fuck every dodgy regime we can get in a room with in a desperate attempt to save our economy

At this point, our government is checking how far can EU take their shit, if EU actually does something, then our government will have to start playing nicely, our government's only strong point is that they are managing our economy pretty well, and thats in major part thanks to being part of EU as well.

If a EU member's democracy starts to looking very questionable, it shouldn't be in the EU. Personally I think letting a lot of the Eastern European states in was premature in general - right now Denmark can't send Romanian prisoners back to Romania without violating the European Convention on Human rights. May seem like an unimportant point, but it points to the huge gap in capabilities and ambitions of the member countries. And now we have Poland (among others) going down a very wrong path, and at this point the EU doesn't seem to have any effective tools to go against that.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;52991874]If a EU member's democracy starts to looking very questionable, it shouldn't be in the EU. Personally I think letting a lot of the Eastern European states in was premature in general - right now Denmark can't send Romanian prisoners back to Romania without violating the European Convention on Human rights. May seem like an unimportant point, but it points to the huge gap in capabilities and ambitions of the member countries. And now we have Poland (among others) going down a very wrong path, and at this point the EU doesn't seem to have any effective tools to go against that.[/QUOTE] Then you give power to euroskeptic governments, all they must do to leave is become unpleasant (most influential euroskeptic parties seem to be unpleasant anyway).

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;52991895]Then you give power to euroskeptic governments, all they must do to leave is become unpleasant (most influential euroskeptic parties seem to be unpleasant anyway).[/QUOTE] So the Eurosceptic countries where the populations have lax principles leave, and then that's bad because...?

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;52991916]So the Eurosceptic countries where the populations have lax principles leave, and then that's bad because...?[/QUOTE] Because the EU would lose its political clout that it greatly needs.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;52991916]So the Eurosceptic countries where the populations have lax principles leave, and then that's bad because...?[/QUOTE] Because a euroskeptic gov might get elected with a mandate of "stopping ever closure union, stopping immigration" and hijack that mandate to leave the EU. It robs the electorate of their power. You might feel spiteful toward those people for voting for a rotten government but we need checks and balances on power.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;52991936]Because a euroskeptic gov might get elected with a mandate of "stopping ever closure union, stopping immigration" and hijack that mandate to leave the EU. It robs the electorate of their power. You might feel spiteful toward those people for voting for a rotten government but we need checks and balances on power.[/QUOTE] So nothing a country could do should be grounds for throwing that country out of the EU? We should just let them keep going with anti-democratic practices because oh god what if they were thrown out of the EU against their citizens' wishes? I really don't see the logic where allowing a country to degenerate their democracy is less bad than - speculatively - have a country leave the EU against the majority will of their population. It has nothing to do with spite, it has everything to do with upholding the EU as a union for democratic and free countries, not just whoever got in at one point.

Good, can we have the same for Spain and Hungary please? We can't tolerate dictatorships in the EU.

They've initiated the process [url]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/20/eu-process-poland-voting-rights[/url] However Hungary say they will block it. Probably should have Article 7'd them a few years ago huh

[QUOTE=Maestro Fenix;52992495]Good, can we have the same for Spain and Hungary please? We can't tolerate dictatorships in the EU.[/QUOTE] Last I checked, theres no current powers to remove a country from the EU unless they do it themselves, it came up with the Greek crisis. [QUOTE=Bob The Knob;52992681]They've initiated the process [URL]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/20/eu-process-poland-voting-rights[/URL] However Hungary say they will block it. Probably should have Article 7'd them a few years ago huh[/QUOTE] I doubt they will be able to stop the V4 group.

[QUOTE=Boilrig;52992755]Last I checked, theres no current powers to remove a country from the EU unless they do it themselves, it came up with the Greek crisis. I doubt they will be able to stop the V4 group.[/QUOTE] From what I heard of some people who were discussing the Rule of Law case last year, the V4 position isn't unified. The Czech Republic pretty much has the stance that the rule of law has been impeded in Poland unlike Hungary.