Technically you could say that a human is created at the point of conception, or you could also argue that the baby would only be considered as human once birth happens. At what point should we consider that the [whatever word I should use] would be human?
I want to push this topic a bit more though, so don't start typing yet until you've finished reading this. From a legal standpoint, what point of time should be considered in regard to the creation of a human being? I'd say it would be at birth, because before then the fetus wouldn't be considered human and this could be beneficial as it means that abortions wouldn't be treated as murder. However, if something does happen to the fetus (such as the pregnant mother getting involved in some kind of incident that causes the fetus to die) this would mean that any person responsible for the death of the fetus might not be punished for it, because the fetus wouldn't be considered human at that point. I don't know what kind of legislation some countries have in regards to such a situation though.
So anyways, what do you think?
We are human being right as we are born.
While in the womb we are known as fetuses. They are generally refereed to as human beings because that is what they will be known as. But they are not.
However, the murder of a fetus is just as serious as the murder of a baby.
[QUOTE=darcy010;33197798]However, the murder of a fetus is just as serious as the murder of a baby.[/QUOTE]
What about in regard to abortion?
I would say once it's able to leave the womb and survive, generally speaking, you could class them as a new human.
[QUOTE=Humangatang;33198437]I would say once it's able to leave the womb and survive, generally speaking, you could class them as a new human.[/QUOTE]Then they wouldn't be a human until 5-10
A newborn baby or a toddler can't survive on his own.
I say you're a human if you have 100% human DNA and an intact human mind. I remember reading an argument where hypothetically human mind in a gorilla's body could be called still human. I disagree, it's just as much about the mind as it is about the body. As such, a gorilla's mind in a human's body would not be human either.
For the first large part of pregnancy, I wouldn't call the fetus "a human being". It hasn't started to perceive the world yet, and the fact that I'm referring to it as 'it' makes it pretty clear that it's not human, in my opinion.
About the human brain in gorilla, I would call that a human. Sure, it doesn't look like one, but as long as the mind is human, it's a human. It sounds weird, but I'd say a human brain in a gorilla is about as human as a very, very large person. Why should you be classified as a human when you can't move, weighs 400 kilo (ergo, doesn't really look all that human) and doesn't really do much else than shit, fart and eat? Because you have a human mind, and you can interact with people verbally.
[QUOTE='[Green];33199309']I say you're a human if you have 100% human DNA and an intact human mind. I remember reading an argument where hypothetically human mind in a gorilla's body could be called still human. I disagree, it's just as much about the mind as it is about the body. As such, a gorilla's mind in a human's body would not be human either.[/QUOTE]
Why not? If he speaks, thinks and feels like a human, it's human.
Also, I'd say you start being human when you start developing your own personality
I can't decide. Either conception or ~4-6 years old.
[QUOTE=Homez;33200282]I can't decide. Either conception or ~4-6 years old.[/QUOTE]
Conception? Why that? How is a clump of cells which isn't able to do anything remotly human, like thinking, human in the slightest? It's about as human as some random virus
[QUOTE=Scar;33200332]Conception? Why that? How is a clump of cells which isn't able to do anything remotly human, like thinking, human in the slightest? It's about as human as some random virus[/QUOTE]
Well, I was just thinking that humans spend a good deal of their lives under some sort of handicap. A young child cannot feed itself, take care of itself, keep itself warm, etc. For several years you lack the ability of articulate speech. Even after that, you lack the tell-tale human ability to reason.
As a person grows old, he or she slowly loses these attributes. It is, in my opinion, not too far fetched to say an exceedingly old person can resemble an exceedingly young person in their handicaps and needs.
I view the period from conception to ~6-8 a period of human life with extreme handicaps, but that, in my opinion, makes them no less human than a fully grown man or woman. It's a slow progression to full adulthood, and then a slow descent to death. I believe that, in the instance of my opinion you appear to disagree with, the period in the womb is as important to development, and as riddled with handicaps, as any other period in development.
I hope that clarifies my thoughts.
Some people aren't considered human.. As seen in the news.
I think it's once your body has developed enough and is capable of independent survival, in or outside the womb.
Even though I'm pro-choice, I believe that as soon as a child is conceived it is a human being, posessing all 46 chromosomes.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;33197903]What about in regard to abortion?[/QUOTE]
Yeah thats where it's different. Abortions are perfectly fine.
But if someone was to stab a woman in the stomach killing her fetus it should be considered murder.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33198795]Then they wouldn't be a human until 5-10
A newborn baby or a toddler can't survive on his own.[/QUOTE]
In terms of survival I mean I mean that it is [B]developed[/B] enough to leave the womb.
We are human the second we can recognize the fact that we exist.
The problem I have with "human at birth" is that it doesn't take into account premature birth. Say the gestation period of nine months applies - what if a baby is born early, after only six months? Is it not 'human' until nine months after conception? If it is human, then would it be okay to abort babies if the mother is six months pregnant?
Personally, I hold that we are human at conception. [I]No,[/I] this does not mean you commit mass murder every time you masterbate; there's no fertilization there, no chance for human development. At conception, the fetus has a unique genetic makeup from the mother - indeed, miscarriages occur sometimes because the immune system attacks the foreign body inside the mother.
[editline]9th November 2011[/editline]
Another idea to talk about - what about the humanity of a [I]fetus in fetu[/I], a "parasitic twin"?
For me, it's either when you have your first heart beat or when you are first able to respond to stimuli (in the womb).
Until then, you're basically still a part of your mother.
as soon as the fetus stops looking like a mutated peanut and starts looking like a baby
Emotions, the ability to verbally communicate, and the ability to think make us humans rather than animals. When these can be recognized in a baby by another human, then the baby should be considered human (in my opinion). Tho an abortion after six months of pregnancy should have happened sooner.
[QUOTE='[Green];33199309']I say you're a human if you have 100% human DNA and [B]an intact human mind[/B]. I remember reading an argument where hypothetically human mind in a gorilla's body could be called still human. I disagree, it's just as much about the mind as it is about the body. As such, a gorilla's mind in a human's body would not be human either.[/QUOTE]
So acording to this logic:
1. a mentally disabled person is not human
2. If someone looks different they are not human
Also, if it's just as much about the body as the mind then where does the phrase "it's about what the person is like on the inside, not the outside" come from?
You are human as long as you have human DNA. It doesn't matter how old you are, what mental or physical problems you may have or whether you even make it to birth. You are human as soon as you are concieved.
That said there's nothing special to being human really. Just one of a disposable 7 billion. Important to those who know you irrelevant to everything else, just like everyone else. On a more positive note you do get apposable thumbs, suck it 99% of the animal kingom.
All the time. Unless someone manages to conceive with another species then this won't ever change.
[QUOTE=Clunj;33215681]All the time. Unless someone manages to conceive with another species then this won't ever change.[/QUOTE]
This is a stage of cell growth during early embryonic development, ie., after conception.
[img]http://www.drnickcampos.com/health-newsletter/morula.gif[/img]
You're saying that's human?
When the baby is first conscious in the womb. To be safe I'd put it at when the growing human can first react using it's nervous system.
I used to wonder if our 46 chromosomes, including human DNA, made us human. Makes sense, except that some people have 47 chromosomes.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome[/url]
Just throwing that out there.
What is means to be human is so subjective that scientists, lawmakers, and the masses will likely never have a definite answer. It is, as I have stated in previous posts, my belief that everything after conception is part of the developmental process to becoming a fully grown human.
Embryo, Fetus, Baby, Child, Teen, Adult: You are human at every point.
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;33208732]We are human the second we can recognize the fact that we exist.[/QUOTE]
But when exactly is that?
Personally I think it's weird and a little interesting to think that there might be a point in our lives where we are not self-aware.
I think the real point of considering a fetus a human life is the fact it will eventually be born and have a life on it's own, it is irrelevant if is considered "human" or "self aware" at that point. If you kill it while it is still in the womb, you are basically ending that persons chance at life, essentially murdering that person to be, even though the life was ended before it truly started.
[url]http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57321126/mississippis-personhood-amendment-fails-at-polls/[/url]
Mississippi's attempt at a "personhood" amendment. Would place being human at conception. That article does not express my opinion, but it is a recent event on the subject. Enjoy.
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