[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29220885[/url]
[quote]Ukraine's parliament has granted self-rule to parts of eastern regions held by pro-Russian rebels, as well as an amnesty for the fighters themselves.[/quote]
[quote]Meanwhile, Russia said it needed to boost troops in Crimea - Ukraine's peninsula annexed by Moscow in March.
Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu said "a full and self-reliant force" must be deployed in the southern region because of the escalating Ukraine crisis and a foreign military build-up.[/quote]
Looks like all sides are expecting a fight though.
Seems to not be independence.
[quote]However, many of the rebels are demanding full independence, and speak of creating a new state called "Novorossiya", something Russian President Vladimir Putin has also mentioned in speeches.[/quote]
Seems to be more a federalisation kind of deal. So it is still east ukraine.
Putin wins again.
Give it a couple of months for them to sign an agreement integrating themselves to Mother Russia and he'll finally admit that the Rebels were backed in manpower and arms by Russia, finally.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;45994049]Putin wins again.
Give it a couple of months for them to sign an agreement integrating themselves to Mother Russia and he'll finally admit that the Rebels were backed in manpower and arms by Russia, finally.[/QUOTE]
Then wait another 4-5 years and the same thing will happen again.
Just a note this isn't independence it seems.
[quote]However, many of the rebels are demanding full independence, and speak of creating a new state called "Novorossiya", something Russian President Vladimir Putin has also mentioned in speeches.[/quote]
Updating op
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;45994053]Then wait another 4-5 years and the same thing will happen again.[/QUOTE]
Don't think Putin is planning to wait that long.
What the nazis couldn't do at WWII is something that now our "democrats" are doing in the East.
[QUOTE=HighOnSinz;45994088]Don't think Putin is planning to wait that long.[/QUOTE]
He better be, I know what happens when I keep annexing territory in quick succession. Soon Austria and Denmark are in a coalition against me with a combine troop ratio higher than mine.
this is looking a whole lot like my Victoria II campaign
Great. Since that was what the rebels wanted in the first pae I hope the fighting will stop and people start working again.
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;45994290]this is looking a whole lot like my Victoria II campaign[/QUOTE]
My last Victoria II campaign ended with China marching their way to Moscow after slaughtering thousands of Russian Troops in the Urals
Oh and America was communist
[I]that ain't happnin'[/I]
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45994311]Great. Since that was what the rebels wanted in the first pae I hope the fighting will stop and people start working again.[/QUOTE]
As long as Putin is around, that wont happen.
I would like to know how much independence they will actually get.
If it's too much then it will cause an outrage from other regions that will sure want to be in power too.
If it's too little then the fighting will soon start again.
Either way I want to know where did the "We will never forgive rebels" and "We won't stop the anti-terrorist operation until all of them are dead" go.
[b]Actually[/b] it's all bullshit.
[quote]Rebels holding government buildings in the east are now supposed to leave them, hand over captured Ukrainian soldiers and other prisoners and surrender their weapons.[/quote]
This has been called for many times and rebels said every time that they won't surrender to the mercy of their enemies like that.
I bet 10$ fighting is going to continue.
[editline]16th September 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=David29;45994326]As long as Putin is around, that wont happen.[/QUOTE]
Eeeeh, why?
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45994355]I would like to know how much independence they will actually get.
If it's too much then it will cause an outrage from other regions that will sure want to be in power too.
If it's too little then the fighting will soon start again.
Either way I want to know where did the "We will never forgive rebels" and "We won't stop the anti-terrorist operation until all of them are dead" go.
[b]Actually[/b] it's all bullshit.
This has been called for many times and rebels said every time that they won't surrender to the mercy of their enemies like that.
I bet 10$ fighting is going to continue.
[editline]16th September 2014[/editline]
Eeeeh, why?[/QUOTE]
Surely if they offer greater powers for self governance they would need to carry through with it, to promise then deny it would be a definate way to kick off the next round.
Could they not have done this before so many people died?
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45994444]Surely if they offer greater powers for self governance they would need to carry through with it, to promise then deny it would be a definate way to kick off the next round.[/QUOTE]
Yeah just like Yanuk fucked up by promising EU association and then beckpedaling.
Its complete bullshit that people even think this is an acceptable outcome when Russia has blatantly invaded another country (as much as they deny it), but something has to be done to stop innocent people being killed just so Putin can slap the big red dong of communism on the western worlds cheek
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45994465]Yeah just like Yanuk fucked up by promising EU association and then beckpedaling.[/QUOTE]
Ukraine is stuck in a cycle of awful politicians.
And now take it back Ukraine
A waste of ink on paper that has no real impact.
Cease fire is continuesly broken by both sides anyway. You have sponsored batalions not giving a damn to orders from Kiev on one side and rebels who don't want to stop counter offensive(Mozgovoy and his pals) on another. Shelling continues and both parties mass their troops. Granted that rebels already had a fuckton of stolen armory from Ukranian army and control of borders with Russian they are pretty confident to whitstand against crippled Ukranian recruits even if they are gettin new toys from Europe.
[QUOTE=kibble;45994491]Putin can slap the big red dong of communism on the western worlds cheek[/QUOTE]
[img]http://facepunch.com/fp/flags/au.png[/img]
Do not panic, he's not aiming for the world's lower part after this.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45994583]A waste of ink on paper that has no real impact.
Cease fire is continuesly broken by both sides anyway. You have sponsored batalions not giving a damn to orders from Kiev on one side and rebels who don't want to stop counter offensive(Mozgovoy and his pals) on another. Shelling continues and both parties mass their troops. Granted that rebels already had a fuckton of stolen armory from Ukranian army and control of borders with Russian they are pretty confident to whitstand against crippled Ukranian recruits even if they are gettin new toys from Europe.
[img]http://facepunch.com/fp/flags/au.png[/img]
Do not panic, he's not aiming for the world's lower part after this.[/QUOTE]
Didn't you maintain that Russia wasn't behind this for weeks / months?
And that no Russians are in Ukraine.
How do you feel about your obvious propaganda pipes now
I'm genuinely curious.
if you want to take that route,
[img]http://facepunch.com/fp/flags/ru.png[/img]
[video=youtube;qFOVvkoNva4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFOVvkoNva4[/video]
[QUOTE=kibble;45994622]if you want to take that route,
[img]http://facepunch.com/fp/flags/ru.png[/img]
old vid[/QUOTE]
Flag battle!
Also, fun fact, i actually participated in creation of that vid, showed joazz's masterpiece to Tobi and he uploaded this.
[QUOTE=Raskol;45994616]Didn't you maintain that Russia wasn't behind this for weeks / months?
And that no Russians are in Ukraine.
How do you feel about your obvious propaganda pipes now
I'm genuinely curious.[/QUOTE]
Soo you readed throught all my posts to make that statement as your fifth one? What an honor.
Also, how is that related to "control of borders with Russia" if that's the part that caught your attention? Where did i ever denied existance of unofficial support for rebels?
Sorry to break your boners fella but i ain't coming here for a shitstorm.
It's pretty telling that when the entire rest of the world is saying that this is inexcusable behavior from Russia in a conflict they provoked, that it's just Russians who are saying 'hey there was bad stuff on both sides, nobody's perfect'.
[QUOTE=catbarf;45995037]It's pretty telling that when the entire rest of the world is saying that this is inexcusable behavior from Russia in a conflict they provoked, that it's just Russians who are saying 'hey there was bad stuff on both sides, nobody's perfect'.[/QUOTE]
Well "the rest of the world" isn't really reporting stuff like odessa, ukrainian shelling of Russia and Ukrainian's shelling civilian centres.
When Russia did this kinda thing (chechnya) the US criticised them for the civilians deaths and the denial of freedom to a state which tried to break away. When Ukraine kill their own people to stop a breakaway (which started as a movement pushing for federalisation which it is now being offered) the US shows support and pressures other to do likewise.
Sure the rebels are doing shitty things but it is being covered in a pretty hypocritical, bias and politicised way.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;45994677]Soo you readed throught all my posts to make that statement as your fifth one? What an honor.
Also, how is that related to "control of borders with Russia" if that's the part that caught your attention? Where did i ever denied existance of unofficial support for rebels?
Sorry to break your boners fella but i ain't coming here for a shitstorm.[/QUOTE]
I just wonder what its like to be constantly wrong about something.
After months of being told you're wrong, but you'll still vehemently deny being wrong. Then finally you find out you were wrong.
I wonder what that "oops" feels like. It would certainly shake my confidence in what bullshit I like to believe in, but I got a niggling suspicion that you don't even think about it. Business as usual.
[QUOTE=Raskol;45995093]I just wonder what its like to be constantly wrong about something.
After months of being told you're wrong, but you'll still vehemently deny being wrong. Then finally you find out you were wrong.
I wonder what that "oops" feels like. It would certainly shake my confidence in what bullshit I like to believe in, but I got a niggling suspicion that you don't even think about it. Business as usual.[/QUOTE]
Which banned user are you the alt of?
edit: Turns out it was nodachi, good riddance.
So weird that Russia could support a force like that and keep it secret.
Government controlled media does wonders for leader centric nations.
[QUOTE=Kardia;45995129]So weird that Russia could support a force like that and keep it secret.
Government controlled media does wonders for leader centric nations.[/QUOTE]
They did the same in Afghanistan all those years ago.
[QUOTE=Raskol;45995134]They did the same in Afghanistan all those years ago.[/QUOTE]
much harder to do that now, with internet and stuff.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45995138]much harder to do that now, with internet and stuff.[/QUOTE]
Well plausible(lol) deniability still exists with the internet or not. If just depends how much you want to believe something.
Like when karimatrix said those satellite pictures of the Russian tanks were fake because they weren't orientated to the north. Even though North was still clearly marked on the pictures for him.
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