5,300-year-old blood cells extracted from 'Iceman' Oetzi
25 replies, posted
[B]Source[/B]
[URL]http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0502/5-300-blood-cells-extracted-from-iceman.html[/URL]
[quote]Intact 5,300-year-old red blood cells have been extracted from remains of an "Iceman" found in the European Alps in 1991.Oetzi lived for some time after being shot in the back by an arrow, scientists said after using forensic technology to analyse his preserved blood.
Contrary to a leading theory, Oetzi did not expire immediately from his wounds, they reported in the Journal of the Royal Society Interface, published by Britain's academy of sciences.
Scientists led by Albert Zink of the Ludwig Maximilian University in Munich, southern Germany used nano-scale methods to probe the oldest blood known to modern science, preserved by thousands of years of alpine chill.
Using a so-called atomic force microscope able to resolve images just a few nanometers (billionths of a metre) across, they identified corpuscles with the classic doughtnut shape of healthy blood cells.
"To be absolutely sure that we were not dealing with pollen, bacteria or even a negative imprint of a blood cell, but indeed with actual blood cells, we used a second analytical method," Zink said.
They deployed Raman spectroscopy, in which refracted light from a laser beam gives chemical clues about a sample.
This showed the presence of haemoglobin and fibrin, which are key components in blood clotting, at the arrow wound on Oetzi's back.
"Because fibrin is present in fresh wounds and then degrades, the theory that Oetzi died straight after he had been injured by the arrow, as had once been mooted, and not some days after, can no longer be upheld," Zink said.
Oetzi's remains were discovered by two German hikers in September 1991 in the Oetztal Alps in South Tyrol, northern Italy, 3,210 metres above sea level.
Scientists have used high-tech, non-invasive diagnostics and genomic sequencing to penetrate his mysterious past.
These efforts have determined Oetzi died around the age of 45, was about 1.60 metres tall and weighed 50 kilos.
He suffered a violent death, with an arrow severing a major blood vessel between the rib cage and the left scapula, as well as a laceration on the hand.
According to DNA analysis presented in February, Oetzi had brown eyes and hair and was allergic to milk products.
This supports the theory that despite the increasing spread of agriculture and dairying at the time, lactose intolerance was still common.
According to a theory aired in 2010 by an Italian archaeologist, based on seasonal pollen found in his stomach contents and at the burial site, Oetzi did not die at the spot where his remains were found. Instead, he was only ceremonially interred there.[/quote]
I read this story to my friend in 5th period a day ago. He said "LOOK ITS PROOF OF DIVINE CREATION, BECAUSE IF EVOLUTION WAS REAL, WE WOULD BE MUCH DIFFERENT IN 5K YEARS. GOD MADE EARTH."
Anyways, this is fucking cool
[QUOTE=Pancake Bunny;35821636]I read this story to my friend in 5th period a day ago. He said "LOOK ITS PROOF OF DIVINE CREATION, BECAUSE IF EVOLUTION WAS REAL, WE WOULD BE MUCH DIFFERENT IN 5K YEARS. GOD MADE EARTH."
Anyways, this is fucking cool[/QUOTE]
Did you remember to tell him at 5000 years isn't a lot in an evolutionary perspective?
Seems like a lot of work to extract and analyze some old blood cells though.
I wanna know his blood group.
[QUOTE=Moby-;35822007]I wanna know his blood group.[/QUOTE]
B.C.
so could we in theory clone him ?
[QUOTE=Pancake Bunny;35821636]I read this story to my friend in 5th period a day ago. He said "LOOK ITS PROOF OF DIVINE CREATION, BECAUSE IF EVOLUTION WAS REAL, WE WOULD BE MUCH DIFFERENT IN 5K YEARS. GOD MADE EARTH."
Anyways, this is fucking cool[/QUOTE]
actually you can see evolution happening right here, he was lactose intolerant, which back then would have been FAR more prevalent then it is today, as during that time humans were only just starting to go from nomadic huters/gatherers to farmers and using livestock, thus slowly, we have evolved to become more used to milk as we drank more and more of the stuff
:science:
[QUOTE=scorpinat;35822270]so could we in theory clone him ?[/QUOTE]
I don't see why we should, I want cloning as much as the next guy but as far as we know the only notable trait this guy has is that he's lactose intolerant
I mean the only real reason to clone him would just be to prove that we can clone full-stop, in which case it'd be much less complicated to get some of random bystander Joe Sixpack's blood and clone him instead
[QUOTE=scorpinat;35822270]so could we in theory clone him ?[/QUOTE]
There's bound to be some damage to the DNA structure in 5000 years so I doubt it. Nowhere in the article it said his DNA was fully preserved.
However, with science, magic and probably future technology we could take pieces of preserved DNA from different cells and add them together, recreating his DNA structure 100%.
[url]http://facepunch.com/threads/1181441[/url]
[QUOTE=Pancake Bunny;35821636]I read this story to my friend in 5th period a day ago. He said "LOOK ITS PROOF OF DIVINE CREATION, BECAUSE IF EVOLUTION WAS REAL, WE WOULD BE MUCH DIFFERENT IN 5K YEARS. GOD MADE EARTH."
Anyways, this is fucking cool[/QUOTE]
Humans haven't been pressured by natural selection to evolve.
[QUOTE=borisvdb;35823485]Humans haven't been pressured by natural selection to evolve.[/QUOTE]
Uhhh
Yes we have.
[QUOTE=Mindtwistah;35823041]There's bound to be some damage to the DNA structure in 5000 years so I doubt it. Nowhere in the article it said his DNA was fully preserved.
However, with science, magic and probably future technology we could take pieces of preserved DNA from different cells and add them together, recreating his DNA structure 100%.[/QUOTE]
If they were to clone him I'm sure the "mother's" DNA would help fill in the blanks.
I'd be all for cloning him because then we would be able to study just how much of a difference 5,000 years makes. Were they dumber than us? And by that I mean would he grow up in todays world without any problems learning or understanding. It's not far down the evolutionary chain, probably not nearly far enough for any kind of noticeable changes, but how do we know that?
Personally I want to clone the worlds oldest dead guy/girl. I think it was at least 5 times older than this dude. Because we'd be guaranteed to see some amazing differences.
[editline]4th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=borisvdb;35823485]Humans haven't been pressured by natural selection to evolve.[/QUOTE]
Our oldest recorded ancestor was practically half monkey. Had a fucked up face and everything.
[QUOTE=borisvdb;35823485]Humans haven't been pressured by natural selection to evolve.[/QUOTE]
then why are we evolving
Makes me think of 'The Thing', I certainly hope they don't find shape shifting parasites in those blood samples.
[QUOTE=Jurikuer;35823622]If they were to clone him I'm sure the "mother's" DNA would help fill in the blanks.
I'd be all for cloning him because then we would be able to study just how much of a difference 5,000 years makes. Were they dumber than us? And by that I mean would he grow up in todays world without any problems learning or understanding. It's not far down the evolutionary chain, probably not nearly far enough for any kind of noticeable changes, but how do we know that?
Personally I want to clone the worlds oldest dead guy/girl. I think it was at least 5 times older than this dude. Because we'd be guaranteed to see some amazing differences.
[editline]4th May 2012[/editline]
Our oldest recorded ancestor was practically half monkey. Had a fucked up face and everything.[/QUOTE]
Not since then. We are at the top of the food chain. We fight our own species instead.
[QUOTE=borisvdb;35824425]Not since then. We are at the top of the food chain. We fight our own species instead.[/QUOTE]
Aside from the point. If someone sprouts two more arms and is able to fight/survive better than everyone else, then their genes will get passed on - and maybe more four armed people will pop up (exaggerated case, but bare with me).
To say that we're not evolving anymore would be to say there's no more genetic mutations in humans today; and there certainly are. It just happens that the average joe for the past few thousand years has done as well, or better than other mutations (mutations rarely tend to be positive nowadays).
people, stop talking about cloning him, pay some respect to your elders.
i mean, he probably is related to all of us.
[QUOTE=raviool;35824800]people, stop talking about cloning him, pay some respect to your elders.
i mean, he probably is related to all of us.[/QUOTE]
how is that disrespecting him?
[editline]4th May 2012[/editline]
he's been dead for thousands of years, at this point, I really don't think he umm... cares?
[QUOTE=J!NX;35824958]how is that disrespecting him?
[editline]4th May 2012[/editline]
he's been dead for thousands of years, at this point, I really don't think he umm... cares?[/QUOTE]
well tell that to the priest you hire to get the 6000 year old ghost out of your home when it doesnt even understand your language,
[QUOTE=J!NX;35824958]how is that disrespecting him?
[editline]4th May 2012[/editline]
he's been dead for thousands of years, at this point, I really don't think he umm... cares?[/QUOTE]
His clone would come to your house and fuck your shit up
[editline]4th May 2012[/editline]
Also, there was some story about the curse of Oetzi. Pretty creepy.
[QUOTE=raviool;35825596]well tell that to the priest you hire to get the 6000 year old ghost out of your home when it doesnt even understand your language,[/QUOTE]
fuck your right
[editline]4th May 2012[/editline]
now I'm scared :saddowns:
help me
[QUOTE=proch;35825598]His clone would come to your house and fuck your shit up
[editline]4th May 2012[/editline]
Also, there was some story about the curse of Oetzi. Pretty creepy.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.mummytombs.com/otzi/curse.htm[/url] ?
[QUOTE=borisvdb;35824425]Not since then. We are at the top of the food chain. We fight our own species instead.[/QUOTE]
Do you understand how evolution works?
As long as the human species is alive it will forever be adapting and evolving to anything at all that presents itself in our environments. As long as we have DNA there will always be random mutation, and thus evolution.
And remember one important thing, evolution doesn't necessarily mean that something is improving biologically, just changing.
[quote=Wikipedia]Evolution is any change across successive generations in the heritable characteristics of biological populations. Evolutionary processes give rise to diversity at every level of biological organisation, including species, individual organisms and molecules such as DNA and proteins[/quote]
[QUOTE=ZestyLemons;35824773]Aside from the point. If someone sprouts two more arms and is able to fight/survive better than everyone else, then their genes will get passed on - and maybe more four armed people will pop up (exaggerated case, but bare with me).
To say that we're not evolving anymore would be to say there's no more genetic mutations in humans today; and there certainly are. It just happens that the average joe for the past few thousand years has done as well, or better than other mutations (mutations rarely tend to be positive nowadays).[/QUOTE]
Yes, I know how evolution works. But compared to other animals we have not evolved that much like you said. Mainly in the way we use technology or the way our hands adapt to a keyboard for instance.
[QUOTE=scorpinat;35822270]so could we in theory clone him ?[/QUOTE]
It would only be worth cloning him if his memories are the same as the moments before he died, which is not possible (at this moment).
He will be exactly the same as everyone else.
[QUOTE=scorpinat;35822270]so could we in theory clone him ?[/QUOTE]
AFAIK red blood cells don't contain a cell nucleus, which would be the easiest way to extract DNA (if they had one).
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