The Revolution Turns Against Itself: Signs of Splintering and Turning. Russian Roulette (Dispatch 67
20 replies, posted
Haven't seen these updates posted recently. It seems like the situation is becoming more and more of a mess as the Maidan protesters split and turn against themselves as well as the Ukrainian military being careless in their shelling of civilian populated areas.
[quote]In our latest dispatch from Ukraine, VICE News correspondent Simon Ostrovsky arrives at a scene in Kiev where a group of Euromaidan activists are being detained by a group of men from the Kiev 1 Battalion — a volunteer policing unit made up largely of former Euromaidan activists. The activists have held their camp at Kiev’s Independence Square since this past winter, and were apparently also occupying a restaurant near the square — until the Kiev 1 Battalion was called upon to remove them. Amid differing versions of the story, it becomes clear that a twist in the Ukraine conflict is emerging, as players in the revolution are showing signs of turning against each other.[/quote]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-a8wMG8Dlk[/media]
[quote]Clashes in Kiev have escalated between the Kiev Battalions and activists still occupying the city's Maidan Square. With the Kiev Battalions being comprised largely of former Maidan activists, the clashes are further evidence that the revolution that took place last winter is showing signs of splintering and turning against itself.[/quote]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNuFnk_06Fw[/media]
[quote]In VICE News’ latest dispatch from eastern Ukraine, we visit the rebel-held town of Donetsk to speak with locals about the damage done to their homes and property. The locals refer to the indiscriminate nature of the Ukrainian army's shelling, as well as the separatists seeming inability to protect them.[/quote]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKGQnJs6C2Y[/media]
So this is turning out like the French revolution, where radicals take power and turn on the moderates? That's... Bad.
[QUOTE=deltasquid;45759392]So this is turning out like the French revolution, where radicals take power and turn on the moderates? That's... Bad.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure that the whole point of the French revolution is that the people in power were corrupt, incompetent, lazy bastards.
[QUOTE=GlebGuy;45759595]Pretty sure that the whole point of the French revolution is that the people in power were corrupt, incompetent, lazy bastards.[/QUOTE]
Yes. Just like the Ukrainians of today, the French revolutionaries overthrew the incompetent aristocracy. While there was unrest elsewhere in France, the revolution in Paris took a violent turn as only the violent radicals took power and eliminated the moderates as being a danger to the revolution. That second thing is what I'm afraid of.
Hasn't the Ukraine 'disappeared' the mayor of Luhansk? I'm sure I read that on OCSE.
Damnit, it almost sounds like the entire Ukrainian crisis isn't just black and white after all! Almost as if there was actual in-depth issue, and as if it wasn't all Putin's puppet show! DAMN! What a [I]twist[/I]!
Kinda heartbreaking watching those people talking about their homes. Whether they support the separatists or not, they don't deserve having their homes bombed.
Molotovs again. Why are the activists still there and wearing camo no less. Why are these paramilitary militias being used to deal with it and not the police (were the berkut the only unit who could deal with this stuff) They shouldn't go in heavy handed and waving guns about, the Berkut did less and look how it ended up.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;45759918]Damnit, it almost sounds like the entire Ukrainian crisis isn't just black and white after all! Almost as if there was actual in-depth issue, and as if it wasn't all Putin's puppet show! DAMN! What a [I]twist[/I]![/QUOTE]
but how can I easily find two black and white ideological sides to pick between and champion to other people on the internet
[QUOTE=deltasquid;45759392]So this is turning out like the French revolution, where radicals take power and turn on the moderates? That's... Bad.[/QUOTE]
I think its a mix of radicals and moderates on both "sides". The people still protesting don't trust the government to stick to their promises so want to stay till the changes are made, the people no longer protesting saw a change in government and decided it was time to stop, the people holding the cafe seem to be a bunch of thugs holding the building "hostage", the people swaggering around with batons, guns, camo and badges thinking theyre police got the power they wanted after maiden so see no need in it any more.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45760736]Molotovs again. Why are the activists still there and wearing camo no less. Why are these paramilitary militias being used to deal with it and not the police (were the berkut the only unit who could deal with this stuff) They shouldn't go in heavy handed and waving guns about, the Berkut did less and look how it ended up.[/QUOTE]
Most of the Police in occupied areas just handed over control to the Separatists, some are even protecting the Separatists, so I wouldn't expect anything from them right now. Their leadership seems even more compromised than the UA.
Update, freshly uploaded dispatch:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjDbHbRiGRQ[/media]
They just went to the Russian side of the boarder to report on how Russia is helping treat heavily injured rebels and civilian refugees. Looks like they're doing a lot more for to help the injured that the new Ukrainian government ever did. Also nice to see the OSCE observers allowed to monitor the boarder. To be honest I don't like how at the end Vice is making assumptions as to the military trucks and tanks near there, of course would be, there is a civil war going on in a country right next to your boarder you wanna be prepared in case things head south.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;45761540]Most of the Police in occupied areas just handed over control to the Separatists, some are even protecting the Separatists, so I wouldn't expect anything from them right now. Their leadership seems even more compromised than the UA.[/QUOTE]
That isnt seperatists. Thats euro maiden protesters vs "pro-ukrainian" militias.
I'm commenting on the fact that instead of using police and official forces to disband the euromaiden remenants they are using heavily armed and unaccountable militias (who are fresh back from killing people in the east)
It was trying to get rid of the euromaiden supporters which kick started the whole thing and now the government is making the same mistake but instead of using riot cops its using paramilitaries.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45761629]That isnt seperatists. Thats euro maiden protesters vs "pro-ukrainian" militias.[/QUOTE]
My mistake, we're talking about 2 completely different things.
The "protesters" on Maidan are a bunch of unemployed drunkards looking for a reason to actually sit on their ass all day doing nothing.
The protesters that actually gave a fuck either went back home to their families and jobs, and the other more patriotic ones went to the frontline.
Btw, the protesters have already been cleared out and Maidan is non-existant anymore, the centre of Kiev is clear and ready for the military parade.
I work with a ukranian guy. He says he's afraid to go back to Ukraine at the end of the summer because if he doesn't do well in college he'll have to go join the army. It sort of made my stomach twist because he's younger than I am and I'm only 19. Imagine being a highschool graduate and they say "okay the country's welfare is in your hands good luck".
Fuckin' scary shit
[QUOTE=Swineflu;45762709]The "protesters" on Maidan are a bunch of unemployed drunkards looking for a reason to actually sit on their ass all day doing nothing.
The protesters that actually gave a fuck either went back home to their families and jobs, and the other more patriotic ones went to the frontline.
Btw, the protesters have already been cleared out and Maidan is non-existant anymore, the centre of Kiev is clear and ready for the military parade.[/QUOTE]
I figured they were there because they don't trust the gov to keep good on its promises.
the orange revolution looked all good and stuff, pro EU and corruption and they ended up with yanuk.
I dislike maiden and lots of the groups involved in it but I respect that some of the people who want to make sure the new government keeps its promises, rather than use euro maiden to gain power and go around being corrupt etc etc
[QUOTE=Swineflu;45762709]The "protesters" on Maidan are a bunch of unemployed drunkards looking for a reason to actually sit on their ass all day doing nothing.
The protesters that actually gave a fuck either went back home to their families and jobs, and the other more patriotic ones went to the frontline.
Btw, the protesters have already been cleared out and Maidan is non-existant anymore, the centre of Kiev is clear and ready for the military parade.[/QUOTE]
Source?
[QUOTE=mix999;45761574]Update, freshly uploaded dispatch:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjDbHbRiGRQ[/media]
[/QUOTE]
Holy fuck, this poor dude. We all know all these truisms like "war is hell" and such, but it's still shocking when you see some actual examples of what war does to people.
[QUOTE=Swineflu;45762709]The "protesters" on Maidan are a bunch of unemployed drunkards looking for a reason to actually sit on their ass all day doing nothing.
The protesters that actually gave a fuck either went back home to their families and jobs, and the other more patriotic ones went to the frontline.
Btw, the protesters have already been cleared out and Maidan is non-existant anymore, the centre of Kiev is clear and ready for the military parade.[/QUOTE]
Atleast you know what's going on.
What's left there are alcoholics and bums, besides a lot of euromaidan protesters are on the battlefield right now.
Hell, some idiots were armed with pistols and seized a restaurant before.
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