New US travel ban adds North Korea, Venezuela - Polidicks

[url]https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/09/24/new-travel-ban-adds-north-korea-venezuela/698645001/[/url] [quote]The Trump administration unveiled new restrictions on travel to the United States from eight countries, including North Korea and Venezuela, after its ban on visitors from six Muslim-majority countries expired Sunday. The new restrictions take effect Oct. 18 and apply to foreign nationals from countries the administration says have refused to share information on terrorism, among other issues, with the U.S. government. It also applies to nations that haven't taken necessary security precautions, administration officials said. The expiring ban bars citizens of Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen who lack a "credible claim of a bona fide relationship with a person or entity in the United States" from entering the U.S. The new order drops Sudan from the list and adds three new countries: Chad, North Korea and Venezuela. The expiring ban blocked entry into the United States for 90 days and locked out most aspiring refugees for 120 days to give the administration time to conduct a worldwide review of U.S. vetting procedures for foreign visitors. A few federal courts have blocked the ban, but the U.S. Supreme Court allowed it to take effect in June with some restrictions.[/quote]

People actually visit NK?

That is not going to be very grateful to Venezuelans who are trying to leave the country and many less if many airlines are leaving the country [editline]24th September 2017[/editline] That includes me BTW

Oh hey, I have a relative in Venezuela! Wow! ...seriously though, I can see where that can make sense considering how it is down there right now. I'm definitely not saying it's right (look at the post above me, that guy needs help getting the fuck out), but it does make juuuust a little smidge of sense.

[QUOTE=Vodkavia;52714459]Wouldn't this fuck over people who want to get away from the awful shit going on in Venezuela and North korea? As racist and doublestand-y the reasoning for the ban on Muslims were I seriously doubt the droves of people who want to leave those countries are doing so just to improve their quality of life first and foremost. Oh wait never mind, nothing this administration does is filtered through any sort of sound reasoning or self criticism.[/QUOTE] How do you expect North Koreans to get out of the country by plane? A nice luxurious first-class suite through American Airlines, perhaps? They're not allowed to leave the country in the first place without special permission, the travel ban is to stop idiots from flying there and going on to fund the regime indirectly while putting themselves in danger. If citizens want to leave North Korea, it'd make a lot more sense to escape to South Korea, wouldn't it? For the other countries, it's of course understandable to criticize the government for being reactionary.

I can't see how the venizuella ban will hold up in court, they don't pose any threat to the US, and the North Korean one doesn't really make any sense either since virtually everybody from north korea traveling abroad would either be a diplomat or a refugee

[QUOTE=Sableye;52714581]I can't see how the venizuella ban will hold up in court, they don't pose any threat to the US, and the North Korean one doesn't really make any sense either since virtually everybody from north korea traveling abroad would either be a diplomat or a refugee[/QUOTE]The only good thing I can think of that it does against North Korea is reducing the rate of their choreographed tours. Then again, anybody outside the US can still go so I imagine it's not gonna put a dent in anything.

[QUOTE=MissingNoGuy;52714606]The only good thing I can think of that it does against North Korea is reducing the rate of their choreographed tours. Then again, anybody outside the US can still go so I imagine it's not gonna put a dent in anything.[/QUOTE] I mean the ban on Cuba could be overridden by going to Canada and then just flying to Cuba...

[QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;52714614]I mean the ban on Cuba could be overridden by going to Canada and then just flying to Cuba...[/QUOTE]Exactly. The US travel ban makes no sense.

[QUOTE=Vodkavia;52714459]Wouldn't this fuck over people who want to get away from the awful shit going on in Venezuela and North korea? As racist and doublestand-y the reasoning for the ban on Muslims were I seriously doubt the droves of people who want to leave those countries are doing so just to improve their quality of life first and foremost. Oh wait never mind, nothing this administration does is filtered through any sort of sound reasoning or self criticism.[/QUOTE] I think for the North Korean citizens it would be too risky to escape by air knowing airports possibly are filled with many undercover agents of Kim's government that can easily catch you not to mention that there are only 2 airlines operating in NK, one Chinese and the other property of the North Korean government. but which affects those traveling to NK? I do not think so (given, it is easy to travel to NK through China) And over Venezuela That does not make any sense, Trump is playing stupid here. if he think it will stop Maduro government officials and former members of the Chavez government is wrong they can easily use their jets (some with fake names or allied government companies or their family members living in the US under other names) many of them live in US with money stolen from Venezuelans including generals or military personnel who committed brutalities or murders of demonstrators during protests who asked for "asylum" that will greatly affect the Venezuelan citizens who are desperate to escape to try to get a better life, where here is lost (seriously, many sell totally everything even the houses or become indebted) to try to escape with the few airlines that remain in the country ironically at the same time, is giving more weight in favor of maduro so that its sympathizers continue supporting it, now more with "See people! Trump does not want Venezuelans in US! he hates us!"

[QUOTE=Elcard100;52714667] that will greatly affect the Venezuelan citizens who are desperate to escape to try to get a better life, where here is lost (seriously, many sell totally everything even the houses or become indebted) to try to escape with the few airlines that remain in the country [/QUOTE] the thing is though anyone traveling from the maduro government could easily obtain diplomatic protections, much like North korea has been known to do for their business leaders, and you can't really blanket ban diplomats unless you completely break off diplomatic channels which we would not want to do

It seems that they updated the news, and the ban applies only to Venezuelan government officials [QUOTE]But the new order bars only a handful of Venezuelan government officials and their families, including officials involved in "screening and vetting procedures" at Venezuela's Ministry of the Popular Power for Interior, Justice and Peace; the Administrative Service of Identification, Migration and Immigration and other agencies. In addition, the order states, Venezuelan visa holders will be subject to "appropriate additional measures to ensure traveler information remains current."[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=mrboxxy;52714448]People actually visit NK?[/QUOTE] remember there was a student who traveled and was imprisoned there. made news headlines for awhile because he died to his injuries.

[QUOTE=mrboxxy;52714448]People actually visit NK?[/QUOTE] This guy just can't stop bragging about it [url]https://facepunch.com/member.php?u=289456[/url]

[QUOTE=mrboxxy;52714448]People actually visit NK?[/QUOTE] Yeah and just a few days ago I saw at least one user here trying to justify it, acting like you can still learn from the tour they put together. Edit: this one [QUOTE=The Aussie;52626241]I saw some really subtly fucked shit in NK. I think that even though what you're shown is pretty much a lie, there's still value in seeing such a thing. It also helps that there's a bunch of shit that's straight up Korean history. I'm not delusional, North Korea is a fucking shithole. A lot of places i've been before have especially violent, and often ongoing problems with their governments. It's never bothered me before. You're probably touching something right now that was made by a country that has been harvesting organs on a regular basis since the 90's. Most people really shouldn't go to North Korea because they won't fucking like it.[/QUOTE]

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[QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;52714960]Yeah and just a few days ago I saw at least one user here trying to justify it, acting like you can still learn from the tour they put together.[/QUOTE] You think you're learning anything true from American propaganda either? It amazes me that people on here will bitch and whine when people actually go to see if what they're being presented with is the truth. I don't blame him for wanting to see what it's really like. Who knows how much longer it'll be around.

[QUOTE=nulls;52715009]You think you're learning anything true from American propaganda either? It amazes me that people on here will bitch and whine when people actually go to see if what they're being presented with is the truth. I don't blame him for wanting to see what it's really like. Who knows how much longer it'll be around.[/QUOTE] It's widely known that when you visit NK what you're presented with is not the reality of their situation. Unless numerous people that have visited and later recounted their experience and refugees are all just "American propaganda".

There's an actual, real basis to justify banning Venezuelans from entering. Tareck El Aisami, the vicepresident of Venezuela has connections to Hezbollah and in February a CNN investigative report found out that the Venezuelan Embassy in Iraq had been supplying Venezuelan passports to people in Syria, Palestine, Iraq and Pakistan, for a fee. [url=http://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias-america-latina-41381224?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter]I've found a source saying that the ban only affects government employees and their families[/url] (I'll try to find a source in English later), which makes the ban less of a blanket ban and more a measure that is intended to deter government individuals from putting their dirty money in the US. It does mention there will be additional security measures other Venezuelan visa holders will have to take, though. This is ultimately just a sad consequence of the total ineptitude of the Venezuelan government. They've facilitated documents to drug dealers and terrorists, and much like everything else that they do, it comes at the expense of its citizens.

[QUOTE=mrboxxy;52714448]People actually visit NK?[/QUOTE] mostly morons. [editline]25th September 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=nulls;52715009]You think you're learning anything true from American propaganda either? It amazes me that people on here will bitch and whine when people actually go to see if what they're being presented with is the truth. I don't blame him for wanting to see what it's really like. Who knows how much longer it'll be around.[/QUOTE] I guess the examples of terrible quality of life in several dictatorships are also just American propaganda. People risking death of themselves and their family to escape from that shithole is evidence enough of NK being a terrible place to be, you don't need propaganda for that. Just look at how many people tried to escape from NK, Soviet Union, Communist Vietnam, Cuba, East Germany, etc, vs how many people tried to escape TO them. Almost everyone I see defending NK are retarded teenage tankies who think liking anti-west shitholes is cool, and don't have family who have lived in those shitholes and think that those shitholes are magical places for the poor and buy into the cult of personality bullshit.

[QUOTE=nulls;52715009]You think you're learning anything true from American propaganda either? It amazes me that people on here will bitch and whine when people actually go to see if what they're being presented with is the truth. I don't blame him for wanting to see what it's really like. Who knows how much longer it'll be around.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry are you seriously saying that North Korea is not as bad as we know it is? Because you can clearly see how underdeveloped it is [I]from space[/I], there really is no hiding how catastrophically awful conditions are for North Korean citizens. There's also no way to deny that the North Koreans have a very developed propaganda arm and cult of personality they use to subvert their populace, which they readily use on anyone visiting the country.

Good. Hopefully this applies to Jim Dong Dunce's NK prime minister, so he can't go to the U.N. anymore. Fuck that guy. "Missiles WILL hit the US." Get out! Get the hell out of my country! The exit is on the right.

[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;52715548]You're falling hard into propaganda, if diplomacy can't be used what do you propose? Bombing NK and destabilizing the entire Asia?[/QUOTE] Diplomacy won't work with North Korea. The time for talk has been over for quite some time. We can't hold hands and sing Kumbaya with someone who's been saying they want us dead for many years, killed several of our countrymen including a young man who was visiting, and murdered 2 of our servicemen for trimming a tree. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axe_murder_incident[/url]

[QUOTE=nulls;52715009] I don't blame him for wanting to see what it's really like. Who knows how much longer it'll be around.[/QUOTE] Well if people like you and him keep thinking it's okay to keep financially supporting the regime, it'll be around for a long time.

[QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;52715804]Well if people like you and him keep thinking it's okay to keep financially supporting the regime, it'll be around for a long time.[/QUOTE] Do you honestly think US citizens provide a major (or even any non-negligible) income to the North Korean government?

[QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;52715804]Well if people like you and him keep thinking it's okay to keep financially supporting the regime, it'll be around for a long time.[/QUOTE] Kim's regime will exist regardless of tourism.

[QUOTE=joost1120;52716021]Do you honestly think US citizens provide a major (or even any non-negligible) income to the North Korean government?[/QUOTE] Any income is too much

[QUOTE=nulls;52715009]You think you're learning anything true from American propaganda either? It amazes me that people on here will bitch and whine when people actually go to see if what they're being presented with is the truth. I don't blame him for wanting to see what it's really like. Who knows how much longer it'll be around.[/QUOTE] If by going "to see if what they're being presented with is the truth," you meaning going to gawk at wacky foreigners in some shithole so that you have an amusing anecdote to tell people later.

[QUOTE=Mingebox;52717781]If by going "to see if what they're being presented with is the truth," you meaning going to gawk at wacky foreigners in some shithole so that you have an amusing anecdote to tell people later.[/QUOTE] Nope, but cool straw man my guy.

[QUOTE=Araknid;52716930]Any income is too much[/QUOTE] What if we made them so rich that it had to trickle down and their citizens, who now aren't starving revolt and kick the kims out?