• Nihilism and the Meaning Of Life.
    72 replies, posted
There are no need for goals, For set aims, For anything, There's nothing at the end of the universe, But the meaning of life, the goal of it all, is to do what makes you happy, to do what makes your world go around, to be who you want, wear what you want, act how you want, to build what you want. The world is so vast and cold and horrible, So why not reach for your own, personal goal? Want to build a skyscraper? Do it. Want to ride the Coney Island rollercoaster? You'll never impact, or damage the universe, you'll never mean anything, So why not make yourself happy in the short time you have on earth? Just go out and do it. Reach your goals, Hit your wants and loves, Accomplish them. That's my personal meaning and goal to life, And i was wondering, What's your view on nihilism, on the meaning of life, the goals we have set for us. What do you believe?
[QUOTE=Drsalvador;33168505]You'll never impact, or damage the universe, you'll never mean anything, So why not make yourself happy in the short time you have on earth?[/QUOTE] Why does it [I]have[/I] to be better to have a massive impact on people's lives. Fair enough, it's good ethic to help and bring joy to others but it's more about the person gaining life experiences in order to make their own choices. Some people, like to say that someone's life is "pointless" because they haven't done anything that has "got their names in the books". That in my opinion is an empty statement that nobody learns from.
I was though it was universal that the meaning of life was forty two. On a serious note, the idea that your decisions do not affect others is almost childish. Someone is affected by every decision you make besides yourself. But to realize this you need to see the big picture.
I've never liked Nihilism, it tends to produce narcissistic and hedonistic types of people. I would personally rather help other people, even if I didn't enjoy it.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;33168846]I've never liked Nihilism, it tends to produce narcissistic and hedonistic types of people. I would personally rather help other people, even if I didn't enjoy it.[/QUOTE] [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheAntiNihilist]They aren't mutually exclusive.[/url]
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;33168973][url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheAntiNihilist]They aren't mutually exclusive.[/url][/QUOTE] I wouldn't really count those a proper nihilists as they have their own meaning of life, they just created their own.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;33169116]I wouldn't really count those a proper nihilists as they have their own meaning of life, they just created their own.[/QUOTE] But nihilism doesn't imply that you have to reject self-created meaning. It just means you don't believe in an intrinsic meaning. Existentialism and nihilism are distinct in that while existentialists believe actual value and meaning are created by each person, a nihilist basically believes it's only the appearance of meaning. A personal motivation. An illusion.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;33169191]But nihilism doesn't imply that you have to reject self-created meaning. It just means you don't believe in an intrinsic meaning.[/QUOTE] And that's exactly who i am, personally.
Well biologically the "meaning of life" is reproduce as much as you can.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;33169191]But nihilism doesn't imply that you have to reject self-created meaning. It just means you don't believe in an intrinsic meaning. Existentialism and nihilism are distinct in that while existentialists believe actual value and meaning are created by each person, a nihilist basically believes it's only the appearance of meaning. A personal motivation. An illusion.[/QUOTE] Fair enough, however I still strongly dislike the whole "you'll never impact the world so only do things that help yourself". [editline]7th November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Aman VII;33169287]Well biologically the "meaning of life" is reproduce as much as you can.[/QUOTE] Personally I don't like this logic as it creates a lot of hatred towards gays and just about anyone who doesn't have children.
I once had an epiphany, I guess I'll call it, when I sort of gained nihilistic views. If you're given limited time in the universe, you might as well be the best you you can be, whatever "best" means to you. However I still sit on my ass all day so I don't really apply my views
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;33169288] Personally I don't like this logic as it creates a lot of hatred towards gays and just about anyone who doesn't have children.[/QUOTE] Well it's true though. I'm not saying it's what you should base your life around but at its core that's the "point" of life.
[QUOTE=Aman VII;33169344]Well it's true though. I'm not saying it's what you should base your life around but the at its core that's the "point" of life.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't say it's the point of life, it's just required to keep a species from dying out. I mean what is the point in continuing the species? It serves no real purpose to reproduce, which is why I reject that idea.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;33169288]Fair enough, however I still strongly dislike the whole "you'll never impact the world so only do things that help yourself".[/QUOTE] But existential nihilism doesn't imply that either, because that would mean existential nihilists had a set philosophy apart from disbelief in objective meaning. :P I'm an existential nihilist, and almost every other type of nihilist there is, but I follow a personal ethical code just because I like to help other people. I like when other people help other people. I like when other people help me. I want to live in a world where people help each other, so I try to help it be to the best of my ability. All the nihilism implies is that I don't believe this ethical system is objectively "better" than any other.
[QUOTE=Aman VII;33169344]Well it's true though. I'm not saying it's what you should base your life around but at its core that's the "point" of life.[/QUOTE] We also developed feet, using your reasoning it means that the point of life is to walk.
[QUOTE=Aman VII;33169344]Well it's true though. I'm not saying it's what you should base your life around but at its core that's the "point" of life.[/QUOTE] I slammed my head so far into my palm i destroyed my town. By your logic we should be fucking fucking fucking 24/7 [editline]7th November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=AK'z;33168697]Why does it [I]have[/I] to be better to have a massive impact on people's lives. Fair enough, it's good ethic to help and bring joy to others but it's more about the person gaining life experiences in order to make their own choices. Some people, like to say that someone's life is "pointless" because they haven't done anything that has "got their names in the books". That in my opinion is an empty statement that nobody learns from.[/QUOTE] I have no fucking idea what you just said because it seems to me like the kind of stuff you see scrawled on a wall in an alleyway in shit. Really. I mean, What process goes through your head to type that kind of stuff out?
I would probably call myself an Existential Nihilist. To me, things can only be reality or "true" if they exist in some sort of physical form (like gas), or have been proven to exist (like gravity). Meaning is not physical, and it has not been proven to exist. Instead, it remains in the [i]mind[/i] of a person, but not in the Universe, which has no mind. Ergo, meaning or objective are technically false.
Personally I agree with op, My goal in life is to just enjoy my time as much as possible and have as much fun as I can with awesome people. As far as nihilism goes I don't really have an opinion one way or another. Now Solipsism on the other hand... [i][b]that's bullshit[/b][/i]
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;33169191]Existentialism and nihilism are distinct in that while existentialists believe actual value and meaning are created by each person, a nihilist basically believes it's only the appearance of meaning. A personal motivation. An illusion.[/QUOTE] Never "liked" nihilism too but that is true. Whatever meaning we should have is kind of an illusion. But it's our lifetimes we are talking about so.. it's life?
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;33171227]Never "liked" nihilism too but that is true. Whatever meaning we should have is kind of an illusion. But it's our lifetimes we are talking about so.. it's life?[/QUOTE] Your name is very apt.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;33170299]We also developed feet, using your reasoning it means that the point of life is to walk.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Drsalvador;33170521]I slammed my head so far into my palm i destroyed my town. By your logic we should be fucking fucking fucking 24/7[/quote] You honestly have to be pretty dumb not to see the point of life is to pass on your seed. As humans we've essentially "outgrown" a lot of these instinctual tendencies but you can easily observe it in other animals. It is still in humans though of course. Why do you think you lust? When you see an attractive girl you are drawn to her? It is your basic reproductive instinct at work. Should that be the goal of your life? Obviously not since as I said humans have surpassed their instincts with intelligence.
There are many types of Nihilism: Nihilism in general sees traditional values and beliefs as unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless, a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths. Or being a Nihilist can mean believing that conditions in the social organization are so bad that making destruction is desirable for its own sake of independence from any constructive program or possibility. (19th century Russian party advocating revolutionary reform and using terrorism and assassination). There is also Nihilistic delusion which believes the delusion that things (or everything, including the self) do not exist and that a sense that everything is unreal. But in general Nihilist believe complete denial of all established authority and institutions, the philosophical aspect is truth does not exist, values are imaginary, morality is an illusion etc etc and those points hold water to some extent: The truth does not exist - truth being a relationship between concept and reality between logical proposals and testable so as a parallel example the scientific method does not exist in the real world (as rock does or a light wave or a particle), the scientific relationship between theories and proof and its a way of testing proposed statements about reality where what actually can be measured within reality. However, the fact that the truth does not exist does not mean that the truth is subjective; numbers do not exist, but that does not mean that mathematics is subjective. Values are imaginary - now values are preferences that are at least to some degree objective if we compared it to "tastes." Values, like "truth," occur only as thought and/or desires within the mind if we believe values don't exist in the real world (a collection of trees exist but the concept of a forest is only within our head) so we can agree that they are just thoughts and desires in the mind, they do not exist in external reality and as concepts within the mind, they can be called "imaginary," in the same way as numbers and the scientific method but that doesn't necessarily mean they are false or unrelated to objective reality. Morality is an illusion - now we all know what a illusion is, a concept that is believed to be truth but is not. We cannot determine the validity of ethics unless we can determine the validity of truth and values, if the truth is completely a invalid concept and values can never be objective then of course there can't be ethics. So if we accept the nihilist position? No statement is preferable to any other statement, because objective values do not exist and invalid, illusions, fantasy, marketing etc etc - worthless. So if we were to take an analogy, lets just take the position that no food is biologically preferable to any other food - anything you put in your mouth whether vegetables, gravel, roadkill, clouds or your own fingers has no difference whats so ever because there is no such thing as objectively preferable food or things to eat and no food is preferable to any other if there is no objectively preferable food, then there can be no objectively non-preferable food (if you can't prefer anything then you cannot dis-prefer anything). The moment that any objective preference is stated, the nihilistic position falls due to self-contradiction. If no objective value statements can be made with regards to food - either for or against - then no correction of anyone's opinion about food is possible and you cannot tell anyone what they should or should not eat (what is bad or good to eat), this would be like saying that a preference for ice cream is either "objectively right" or "objectively wrong" - its just a taste, personal taste. Clearly, personal taste ('I like blue') cannot be "right" or "wrong", if all 'values are personal taste, then every possible statement falls into the category of "I like blue/ice cream." So, the nihilistic position? If everything is a personal preference, then the statement "values exist" is just another statement of personal preference. A personal preference can include the belief that personal preference is in fact a universal truth, this is the paradox of nihilism - if no truth is preferable to any other truth - if all perspectives are mere opinions - then a belief in universal truth cannot be opposed. If everything is mere personal preference, then the personal preference for universal values is just another preference, and so cannot be opposed (i.e blue is best/ice cream). If all perspectives are unjudgable opinions, then the opinion that they are not opinions also cannot be judged (if everything is bias and personal bigotry then personal bigotry that is considered to be true is just another bigotry and cannot be opposed). So if you judge any opinion as invalid - if you attempt to correct anyone about anything - then you are automatically accepting the validity and value of objective truth, if you say that someone is wrong - the question is: compared to what? If I believe in objective truth, and you tell me that I am, wrong, and must abandon my position - to what standard are my views being compared? So if I said gases contract when hated and you proved to me that they expand then obviously statement about reality is incorrect against empirical testing against objective reality. To what standard are views that you correct on someone else being compared to your opinions? Well that can't be valid, you can't say that everything is a personal opinion/nothing is real/nothing is preferable but you should change your mind because according to what? Compared to your opinions? Well seeing your opinions are not preferable to the other persons opinions according to nihilism then you cannot impose them on someone else (you could but then you're not a nihilist). When you correct someone are comparing their sits to the objective truth? Well that can be valid but it is a rejection of nihilism, that all opinion and personal preference. So does rejection equal acceptance? It is as simple as this: When you say "nothing is true," you are stating a truth, the statement "nothing is true" is self-detonating of course ("is it true that nothing is true"). Equally, when you say "you should alter your beliefs according to a universal standard of truth, and accept that there is no such thing as universal standard of truth..." - that is also self-detonating, its like accepting the food statement earlier that there is no such thing as a preference to eat and then becoming a food adviser and telling people what to eat. Is Nihilism possible as a intellectual position? Yes, it is certainly possible to be a nihilist. If you are a nihilist, and wish to remain true to your position, you simply cannot correct anyone else about anything, if someone says, "I like blue!" - what can you say in response? "That is incorrect!" - of course not, you can say - "thats nice!" or "how interesting!". The moment that you attempt to correct someones perspective, you automatically accept the validity and universality of objective truth - as well as the objective value of rejecting our opinion in favour of objective truth. In conclusion? The moment you tell someone what they should eat - you can no longer say there is no such thing as preferable food. I agree with nihilists that truth does not exist and I agree that values do not exist either and I agree that these are conceptual standards within our minds. I do not agree that logical results of these premises is that truth and values are subjective and mere opinions, reality is objective, and thus the degree to which concepts match reality is the degree to which they inherit or mirror that objectivity.
[QUOTE=Aman VII;33171720]You honestly have to be pretty dumb not to see the point of life is to pass on your seed. As humans we've essentially "outgrown" a lot of these instinctual tendencies but you can easily observe it in other animals. It is still in humans though of course. Why do you think you lust? When you see an attractive girl you are drawn to her? It is your basic reproductive instinct at work. Should that be the goal of your life? Obviously not since as I said humans have surpassed their instincts with intelligence.[/QUOTE] but how can the point of life be to create more life?
[QUOTE=Drsalvador;33171598]Your name is very apt.[/QUOTE] Apt?
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;33171944]but how can the point of life be to create more life?[/QUOTE] How can't it be? I don't understand your question. [editline]7th November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Bat-shit;33171972]Apt?[/QUOTE] He's trying to insult you cause he can't think of a good rebuttal
[QUOTE=Aman VII;33171978]How can't it be? I don't understand your question. [editline]7th November 2011[/editline] He's trying to insult you cause he can't think of a good rebuttal[/QUOTE] No, it's because he's bat-shit insane. [editline]7th November 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Aman VII;33171720]You honestly have to be pretty dumb not to see the point of life is to pass on your seed. As humans we've essentially "outgrown" a lot of these instinctual tendencies but you can easily observe it in other animals. It is still in humans though of course. Why do you think you lust? When you see an attractive girl you are drawn to her? It is your basic reproductive instinct at work. Should that be the goal of your life? Obviously not since as I said humans have surpassed their instincts with intelligence.[/QUOTE] You're very hypocritical. One minute you say "Pass on your seed" then i get the gist from that last sentence you mean "Do SCIENCE!"
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;33171944]but how can the point of life be to create more life?[/QUOTE]its not its to destroy
[QUOTE=Drsalvador;33172023]No, it's because he's bat-shit insane. [editline]7th November 2011[/editline] You're very hypocritical. One minute you say "Pass on your seed" then i get the gist from that last sentence you mean "Do SCIENCE!"[/QUOTE] Is your mind only able to grasp one concept at a time? BIOLOGICALLY you're purpose as a human is to reproduce to create more humans. Since humans have evolved past simple instincts and have become "higher thinking" beings your meaning of life is completely subjective to you. There is no one answer. Since we still possess these old instincts though we still feel these things (lust, sexual attraction, etc) but we don't act on them/suppress them. (we do act on them, but I mean we don't just pounce a girl in the street and try to have sex with her cause she's hot) In my opinion there is two tiers to the meaning of life. Tier 1 which is clear cut: Reproduce Tier 2 which is the higher thinking philosophical side which has no definitive answer since there is no correct answer. I just can't think of a better way to get it through to you lol.
[QUOTE=Aman VII;33172120]BIOLOGICALLY you're purpose as a human is to reproduce to create more humans.[/QUOTE] Biology doesn't impart purpose. You are biologically given incentive to reproduce as a consequence of evolution, but that's not the same as purpose.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;33172402]Biology doesn't impart purpose. You are biologically given incentive to reproduce as a consequence of evolution, but that's not the same as purpose.[/QUOTE] True I suppose. Depends on your concept of purpose.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.