Mideast needs two-state solution, Pope says in Christmas message - Polidicks

[QUOTE]VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Francis used his Christmas message on Monday to call for a negotiated two-state solution to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, after U.S. President Donald Trump stoked regional tensions with his recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. Francis spoke of the Middle East conflict and other world flashpoints in his “Urbi et Orbi” (to the city and the world) address, four days after more than 120 countries backed a U.N. resolution urging the United States to reverse its decision on Jerusalem. “Let us pray that the will to resume dialogue may prevail between the parties and that a negotiated solution can finally be reached, one that would allow the peaceful coexistence of two states within mutually agreed and internationally recognized borders,” he said, referring to the Israelis and Palestinians. “We see Jesus in the children of the Middle East who continue to suffer because of growing tensions between Israelis and Palestinians,” he said in his address, delivered from the balcony of St. Peter’s Basilica to tens of thousands of people. It was the second time that the pope has spoken out publicly about Jerusalem since Trump’s decision on Dec. 6. On that day, Francis called for the city’s “status quo” to be respected, lest new tensions in the Middle East further inflame world conflicts. Palestinians want East Jerusalem as the capital of their future independent state, whereas Israel has declared the whole city to be its “united and eternal” capital. Francis, leader of the world’s 1.2 billion Roman Catholics, urged people to see the defenseless baby Jesus in the children who suffer the most from war, migration and natural calamities caused by man today. “Today, as the winds of war are blowing in our world ... Christmas invites us to focus on the sign of the child and to recognize him in the faces of little children, especially those for whom, like Jesus, ‘there is no place in the inn,'” he said.[/QUOTE] [URL="https://www.reuters.com/article/us-christmas-season-pope-urbi-et-orbi/mideast-needs-two-state-solution-pope-says-in-christmas-message-idUSKBN1EJ0JK?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_content=5a40ee1e04d301788150db16&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook"]Reuters.[/URL]

It's very easy to be in favor of a 2 state solution when you don't live there. Israel cannot afford another Gaza in the West Bank

[QUOTE=Svinnik;53004606]It's very easy to be in favor of a 2 state solution when you don't live there. Israel cannot afford another Gaza in the West Bank[/QUOTE] Palestine cannot afford an expanding Israel, either. Obviously the 2 state solution is not the greatest solution, but when compared to others, it remains the best option. Sometimes when perfect is out of reach, you have to settle for the next best thing for the sake of peace. Unless Israel and Palestine truly want an eternal war with an infinite amount of casualties on both sides going on into the future.

Jared's already on the case!

[QUOTE=Svinnik;53004606]It's very easy to be in favor of a 2 state solution when you don't live there. Israel cannot afford another Gaza in the West Bank[/QUOTE] So do you favor the one state solution then?

[QUOTE=Svinnik;53004606]It's very easy to be in favor of a 2 state solution when you don't live there. Israel cannot afford another Gaza in the West Bank[/QUOTE] You're right, all the Israelites should give up their statehood and citizen identity and become Palestinians. Wait, no, that's not fair. The Palestinians should give up their identity and should just give in and become Israelites. Wait, no...

[QUOTE=LegndNikko;53005458]You're right, all the Israelites should give up their statehood and citizen identity and become Palestinians. Wait, no, that's not fair. The Palestinians should give up their identity and should just give in and become Israelites. Wait, no...[/QUOTE] Let's compromise and everyone can become Canaanites

[QUOTE=Lambeth;53005502]Let's compromise and everyone can become Canaanites[/QUOTE] Obviously the best option is to make Palestine the 51st state of the US.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;53005523]Obviously the best option is to make Palestine the 51st state of the US.[/QUOTE] The midwest needs a two state solution

[QUOTE=Geikkamir;53005548]The midwest needs a two state solution[/QUOTE] North and South Dakota?

The solution is to abolish the concept of statehood :eng101:

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;53005523]Obviously the best option is to make Palestine the 51st state of the US.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Lambeth;53005587]North and South Dakota?[/QUOTE] Both North Dakota and South Dakota have small populations. Merge the Dakotas into South Dakota, make North Dakota Palestine. Don't even have to change the flag. Nobel peace prize please.

[QUOTE=Geikkamir;53005548]The midwest needs a two state solution[/QUOTE] Oklahoma is occupied north Texas and nothing will change that

[QUOTE=Svinnik;53004606]It's very easy to be in favor of a 2 state solution when you don't live there. Israel cannot afford another Gaza in the West Bank[/QUOTE] I live here and I'm for the two state solution. It's the only one we've got and the only one that has any chance of working in the long term.

the thing is it's not like Israel are only specifically targeting Palestinians. Israel, at least the government, have seemingly had little to no care about how they interact with the states around them when it comes to geopolitical relations. As someone who has directly suffered from siege acted on by Israel, to the point where there are cluster bombs disguised as children's toys still being found in countries Israel has pushed an attack against, I'm aghast at the fact that it is still continuing to this day. The Israeli government are just as guilty of everything they accuse their neighbors of.

[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;53006775]the thing is it's not like Israel are only specifically targeting Palestinians. Israel, at least the government, have seemingly had little to no care about how they interact with the states around them when it comes to geopolitical relations. As someone who has directly suffered from siege acted on by Israel, to the point where there are cluster bombs disguised as children's toys still being found in countries Israel has pushed an attack against, I'm aghast at the fact that it is still continuing to this day. The Israeli government are just as guilty of everything they accuse their neighbors of.[/QUOTE] Are you talking about Gaza? (I can't think of anything else that could be described as a "siege.") If so, you might want to talk to them about not electing actual terrorists, who have the stated goal of destroying Israel, and are anti-semites equal to the worst Nazis, as their leaders.

[QUOTE=sgman91;53007058]Are you talking about Gaza? (I can't think of anything else that could be described as a "siege.") If so, you might want to talk to them about not electing actual terrorists, who have the stated goal of destroying Israel, and are anti-semites equal to the worst Nazis, as their leaders.[/QUOTE] no, lebanon.

[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;53007726]no, lebanon.[/QUOTE] So what would you rather Israel had done about the constant violence from the PLO militants based in southern Lebanon?

[QUOTE=sgman91;53008056]So what would you rather Israel had done about the constant violence from the PLO militants based in southern Lebanon?[/QUOTE] keep in mind this was over 20 years ago, in the 90s. i dunno what caused what was happening but all i know is that they are guilty of killing innocent people, so i cant take any call for them to be the one state seriously.

[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;53008070]keep in mind this was over 20 years ago, in the 90s. i dunno what caused what was happening but all i know is that they are guilty of killing innocent people, so i cant take any call for them to be the one state seriously.[/QUOTE] That's an absurd claim to make. I actually don't even know how to respond. I don't think there's a single country that hasn't killed civilians during wartime.

[QUOTE=sgman91;53008077]That's an absurd claim to make. I actually don't even know how to respond. I don't think there's a single country that hasn't killed civilians during wartime.[/QUOTE] im aware of that. my sentiment was mostly aimed at svinnik's post

[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;53006775]the thing is it's not like Israel are only specifically targeting Palestinians. Israel, at least the government, have seemingly had little to no care about how they interact with the states around them when it comes to geopolitical relations. As someone who has directly suffered from siege acted on by Israel, to the point where there are cluster bombs disguised as children's toys still being found in countries Israel has pushed an attack against, I'm aghast at the fact that it is still continuing to this day. The Israeli government are just as guilty of everything they accuse their neighbors of.[/QUOTE] This is the Middle East, and everything is complicated. Israel invaded Lebanon in the 1980 after years of PLO incursions into Israel's north and attacks on Israel's civilians (such as Samir Kuntar's [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samir_Kuntar#Raid_from_Southern_Lebanon"]1979 Nahariya massacre[/URL]) and Israeli attacks on the PLO. When Israel finally entered Lebanon with the intention of removing the PLO altogether it unwittingly got involved in the whole Muslim/Christian Lebanese civil war, sided with the Christian militias gave rise to Hezbollah and ended up occupying South Lebabon just to keep all the crazy from spilling back into Israel. So that was a big load of violent bullshit. And then in 2000 Israel finally decided to unilaterally retreat from Lebanon, taking back all the military, all the Christian Lebanese that wanted to come along and everything and draw the new line exactly on the internationally recognized border. The result? Just like when we did the same in Gaza. Hezbollah took over South Lebanon, moved right up to the border and started shelling and raiding Israel's north until Israel had to start an even bigger, meaner, bloodier campaign to thwack them so hard they'd consider taking a break for a few years. So more damage, lots more dead innocents, temporarily peaceful border. This is a terrible neighborhood. Anyway, glad you survived it, LZTYBRN. There is so much bad blood between Israel and Lebanon that I don't know if we could ever fix it, but I hope we do. Also, I call bullshit on the bombs as toys claim. Unfortunately cluster bomblets just kinda look like toys, [URL="http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1585565,00.html"]apparently[/URL].

[QUOTE=ScumBunny;53008304]This is the Middle East, and everything is complicated. Israel invaded Lebanon in the 1980 after years of PLO incursions into Israel's north and attacks on Israel's civilians (such as Samir Kuntar's [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samir_Kuntar#Raid_from_Southern_Lebanon"]1979 Nahariya massacre[/URL]) and Israeli attacks on the PLO. When Israel finally entered Lebanon with the intention of removing the PLO altogether it unwittingly got involved in the whole Muslim/Christian Lebanese civil war, sided with the Christian militias gave rise to Hezbollah and ended up occupying South Lebabon just to keep all the crazy from spilling back into Israel. So that was a big load of violent bullshit. And then in 2000 Israel finally decided to unilaterally retreat from Lebanon, taking back all the military, all the Christian Lebanese that wanted to come along and everything and draw the new line exactly on the internationally recognized border. The result? Just like when we did the same in Gaza. Hezbollah took over South Lebanon, moved right up to the border and started shelling and raiding Israel's north until Israel had to start an even bigger, meaner, bloodier campaign to thwack them so hard they'd consider taking a break for a few years. So more damage, lots more dead innocents, temporarily peaceful border. This is a terrible neighborhood. Anyway, glad you survived it, LZTYBRN. There is so much bad blood between Israel and Lebanon that I don't know if we could ever fix it, but I hope we do. Also, I call bullshit on the bombs as toys claim. Unfortunately cluster bomblets just kinda look like toys, [URL="http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1585565,00.html"]apparently[/URL].[/QUOTE] Thank you. I was only 3 at the time I lived in Lebanon when this was happening still in the early 90s, this post gives me a bit more context to what I lived through. The town I lived in is fairly far south as well so we lived through the shelling that destroyed a lot of it, and even there Hezbollah is kind of a tenuous subject to discuss. All I've ever wanted is peace for the area, no matter who is at fault.

[QUOTE=Wizards Court;53005407]So do you favor the one state solution then?[/QUOTE] He seems more like a hypocritical "final solution" kind of guy

How about we start by making Jerusalem a UN sanctioned City-State, run by a council of equal parts Jewish, Muslim, and Christian citizens. Neither side deserve the city over the other and attempting to justify one will simply inflame the others, the only peaceful solution I can see for the Jerusalem question is to remove it from the table. Not unlike one would remove a toy from a pair of feuding children. They may protest it, and it may cause short-term destabilization as the Israeli's are likely to object to being forced out of the city, its the only tenable solution that I see not also including the annihilation of one of the two parties. If they can't share the city, and they won't, then no one power should have control over it.

[QUOTE=CP-26;53010414]How about we start by making Jerusalem a UN sanctioned City-State, run by a council of equal parts Jewish, Muslim, and Christian citizens. Neither side deserve the city over the other and attempting to justify one will simply inflame the others, the only peaceful solution I can see for the Jerusalem question is to remove it from the table. Not unlike one would remove a toy from a pair of feuding children. They may protest it, and it may cause short-term destabilization as the Israeli's are likely to object to being forced out of the city, its the only tenable solution that I see not also including the annihilation of one of the two parties. If they can't share the city, and they won't, then no one power should have control over it.[/QUOTE] Unfortunately Israel built its entire government seat there, to have that in an independent city would be kind of a disaster. Ideally ya it should be a vatican city type deal, but then so should other major religious centers like Mecca but thats not happening either

[QUOTE=Svinnik;53005917]Oklahoma is occupied north Texas and nothing will change that[/QUOTE] Actually it's occupied commanche and apache.