• Black Student at USC Defends Confederate Flag
    288 replies, posted
[url]http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/05/black-student-defends-his-confederate-flag/?hpt=us_c1[/url] [quote=CNN] Byron Thomas is 19, black, a freshman at the University of South Carolina Beaufort and a proud Southerner. He hung a Confederate flag in his dorm room window until the university asked him to take it down because several people had complained about it. (The university later stepped back from the request, saying all students have the right to free speech.) "I know it's kinda weird because I'm black," Thomas said in [URL="http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-709533"]an iReport he submitted[/URL]. "When I look at this flag, I just don't see racism. I see pride, respect. Southern pride, that's what I see." "Ignorance gave that flag a bad name, ignorant people like the KKK," [URL="http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c2#/video/us/2011/12/05/nr-student-backs-confederate-flag.cnn"]he told CNN's Don Lemon[/URL]. The post [URL="http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/30/overheard-on-cnn-com-who-decides-whats-racist/"]got other iReporters talking[/URL], including [URL="http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-710627"]Omekongo Dbinga[/URL], who said Thomas has the right to fly the flag, but there's no denying the flag's history. [URL="http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-710601"]Egberto Willies[/URL] said he doesn't understand Thomas' view of the Confederacy, but he thinks the North and South both have ugly histories with race relations. Thomas said he won't put the flag back up, although he believes he has the right to do so. The university plans to host a discussion about the flag after students return from winter break.[/quote] My mind is full of fuck.
I too do not believe in industrialization.
[t]http://americancollegecricket.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Trojans1.jpg[/t] My first though when I seen USC
i don't get how you're showing southern pride by hearkening to the days when the south was at it's worst or whatever
not surprised coming from USC since it's mostly a dunderhead school these days.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Z7Llwgw4-kk#t=102s]I remember something similar on Penn and Teller[/url]
the rebel flag always represented freedom and pride, it was never meant to be a symbol of racism. people just don't get that anymore, it's been bastardized and demonized into something so far from what it originally meant that it's almost at the same level as the swastika at this point.
Skinheads and Klansmen made it racist. The flag itself is the Confederate Battle Flag and has no racist meaning to it. Robert E. Lee and many other Confederate Generals didn't really have an opinion on slavery. Lee himself, was generally against slavery. They were racists in that they believed blacks were inferior to whites, but than again that could also be said about many Northerners of the time. [img]http://i.imgur.com/H8XDq.jpg[/img] Skinheads ruin everything.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;33592622]the rebel flag always represented freedom and pride.[/QUOTE] or separatism and sectarianism to uphold one of the most horrible practices imaginable. depends on the perspective...
[QUOTE=thisispain;33592853]or separatism and sectarianism to uphold one of the most horrible practices imaginable. depends on the perspective...[/QUOTE] I don't think I can shove my head far enough up my ass to see it from that perspective.
Proud of USC for backing down from their request. They didn't cave in to pressure or anything, but believed in the student's rights as a citizen.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;33592903]I don't think I can shove my head far enough up my ass to see it from that perspective.[/QUOTE] well you've gone far enough just pull out a couple of feet and you'll be there
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;33592622]the rebel flag always represented freedom and pride, it was never meant to be a symbol of racism. people just don't get that anymore, it's been bastardized and demonized into something so far from what it originally meant that it's almost at the same level as the swastika at this point.[/QUOTE] i'm confused about how the confederate battle flag could represent freedom when it represented fighting to continue keeping freedom from others.
[QUOTE=thisispain;33592927]well you've gone far enough just pull out a couple of feet and you'll be there[/QUOTE] hate to break it to you but you're wrong and no amount of snappy comebacks will change that
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;33592943]hate to break it to you but you're wrong and no amount of snappy comebacks will change that[/QUOTE] well at least you posted enough convincing evidence and reasoning to convince others that your posi...
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;33592933]i'm confused about how the confederate battle flag could represent freedom when it represented fighting to continue keeping freedom from others.[/QUOTE] It represented that to you. It's entirely subjective.
[QUOTE=Master X;33592956]It represents that to you. It's entirely subjective.[/QUOTE] i dunno man, the confederacy kept slaves, the confederacy then fought a war so that they could continue to keep slaves. i don't see how that's subjective? it's fact isn't it?
[QUOTE=OvB;33592624]Skinheads and Klansmen made it racist. The flag itself is the Confederate Battle Flag and has no racist meaning to it. Robert E. Lee and many other Confederate Generals didn't really have an opinion on slavery. Lee himself, was generally against slavery. They were racists in that they believed blacks were inferior to whites, but than again that could also be said about many Northerners of the time. [img]http://i.imgur.com/H8XDq.jpg[/img] Skinheads ruin everything.[/QUOTE] Northerners were pretty racist. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_draft_riots[/url] [url]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2957.html[/url] The South did not have a monopoly on bigotry.
[QUOTE=thisispain;33592853]or separatism and sectarianism to uphold one of the most horrible practices imaginable. depends on the perspective...[/QUOTE] Slavery would have never survived in the South. Of course it would've taken a few years longer to be abolished though. The cotton industry fueled slavery, and there were only so many places where it could been grown. Slavery in the West wouldn't have been worth it if you couldn't make them work for a profit. The Oil industry would have inevitably killed it. Slaves were expensive and in the long run it would've cost more to buy a bunch of slaves than to just hire a bunch of people and give them shit wages. They were businessmen, and slaves were a tool. As soon as using that tool becomes too expensive, then they would have dropped it. The image of the Southerner being some huge evil racist bastard was largely untrue. Of course you had your monsters, there's no denying that. A percentage of slave owners were absolutely horrible people. To most of them, though it would have been like having a maid or a groundskeeper (that you didn't pay) These were very religious people and believed Slavery was right by God. They were not doing it out of pure spite and hatred. [editline]5th December 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Lachz0r;33592972]i dunno man, the confederacy kept slaves, the confederacy then fought a war so that they could continue to keep slaves. i don't see how that's subjective? it's fact isn't it?[/QUOTE] It really breaks down into a lot more than just Slavery.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;33592933]i'm confused about how the confederate battle flag could represent freedom when it represented fighting to continue keeping freedom from others.[/QUOTE] despite popular belief the civil war was not about slavery. it happened to be an issue at the time but nowhere near the number one cause for the war. The civil war was about states rights vs federal rights. I don't know if you ever actually paid attention in middle school but there were blacks that fought by choice for the rebels because they believed in larger local government. I'm willing to bet that a lot of political issues we have today would be gone if the south won the war. they might be replaced by something else and whether or not it would be an improvement today isn't really for us to know.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;33592972]i dunno man, the confederacy kept slaves, the confederacy then fought a war so that they could continue to keep slaves. i don't see how that's subjective? it's fact isn't it?[/QUOTE] The government fought a war to keep slaves. The average man had no stake in keeping slaves(since slaves were a rich man's luxury). They fought to defend their homeland against an army that burnt their cities and raped their women.
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;33593010]despite popular belief the civil war was not about slavery. it happened to be an issue at the time but nowhere near the number one cause for the war. The civil war was about states rights vs federal rights. I don't know if you ever actually paid attention in middle school but there were blacks that fought by choice for the rebels because they believed in larger local government. I'm willing to bet that a lot of political issues we have today would be gone if the south won the war. they might be replaced by something else and whether or not it would be an improvement today isn't really for us to know.[/QUOTE] lol well in nz we didn't really do much history on the US civil war
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;33592972]i dunno man, the confederacy kept slaves, the confederacy then fought a war so that they could continue to keep slaves. i don't see how that's subjective? it's fact isn't it?[/QUOTE] Less than 5% of Confederate troops owned slaves. Most slave owners had a dozen or more and were thus extremely wealthy at the time.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;33592972]i dunno man, the confederacy kept slaves, the confederacy then fought a war so that they could continue to keep slaves. i don't see how that's subjective? it's fact isn't it?[/QUOTE] "The North failed to develop large-scale agrarian slavery, such as later arose in the Deep South, but that had little to do with morality and much to do with climate and economy." It's not as though the North was fighting for slaves' freedom and the South was fighting against it. Slaves were sold openly in the North as well as the South. The war was really initialized by the North in an attempt to keep the country united. They could technically have just peacefully just let the South go. To blame the South for the war seems a bit biased. But no, I cannot deny that the South had slaves. I'm just pointing out that the North would have had slaves as well; no, did have slaves as well. Not nearly to such a degree as the South, but again, that was because of climate and economy more than anything.
[QUOTE=Craig Willmore;33593024]Less than 5% of Confederate troops owned slaves. Most slave owners had a dozen or more and were thus extremely wealthy at the time.[/QUOTE] i'm not talking about the confederate troops i'm talking about the confederacy as a whole.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;33593021]lol well in nz we didn't really do much history on the US civil war[/QUOTE] they didn't even tell you what the fight was about? we learned about nearly every major war in every country (except europe because they had about 10 a week at the time, just touched on the really big ones there) from 1800 on
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;33593010] The civil war was about states rights vs federal rights.[/QUOTE] the rights to own slaves. it was one of the major causes of secession from the union. [quote]Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.[/quote]
[QUOTE=ButtsexV3;33593010]despite popular belief the civil war was not about slavery. it happened to be an issue at the time but nowhere near the number one cause for the war. The civil war was about states rights vs federal rights. I don't know if you ever actually paid attention in middle school but there were blacks that fought by choice for the rebels because they believed in larger local government. I'm willing to bet that a lot of political issues we have today would be gone if the south won the war. they might be replaced by something else and whether or not it would be an improvement today isn't really for us to know.[/QUOTE] No, actually the main issue with the Confederate Government and the number one reason they seceded from the Union was slavery. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_of_America#History[/url]
[QUOTE=Master X;33593028]"The North failed to develop large-scale agrarian slavery, such as later arose in the Deep South, but that had little to do with morality and much to do with climate and economy." It's not as though the North was fighting for slaves' freedom and the south was fighting against it. Slaves were sold openly in the North as well as the South.[/QUOTE] i was under the impression that alot of pressure to have war with the south came from the many abolitionists of the north who wanted the slaves of the south freed? i'll admit i don't know that much about the issues, being from NZ and not really reading that much about it. i've only really seen movies about it, and i guess Glory didn't really glorify the south all that much :P
[QUOTE=thisispain;33593038]the rights to own slaves. it was one of the major causes of secession from the union.[/QUOTE] do you even know what states rights means?
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