• Pope: Communism plagiarized from Christianity
    43 replies, posted
[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/29/us-pope-communism-idINKBN0F40L020140629[/url] [quote]He was asked about a blog post in the Economist magazine that said he sounded like a Leninist when he criticized capitalism and called for radical economic reform. "I can only say that the communists have stolen our flag. The flag of the poor is Christian. Poverty is at the center of the Gospel," he said, citing Biblical passages about the need to help the poor, the sick and the needy. "Communists say that all this is communism. Sure, twenty centuries later. So when they speak, one can say to them: 'but then you are Christian'," he said, laughing. Since his election in March 2013, Francis has often attacked the global economic system as being insensitive to the poor and not doing enough to share wealth with those who need it most.[/quote]
Pope Francis seriously seems like he'd be that cool grandfather you don't mind seeing and hanging out with. He's outdated, but he tries for the most part.
That was really quite funny.
[QUOTE]44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Acts 2:44-45 (NIV)[/QUOTE] Yep, sounds pretty Commie to me.
this is a bit of a dilemma for radical american catholics. Is JESUS THE ONE TRU LORD WIT DA POPE AS HIS MOUTHPIECE or do THOSE GOSH DARN GODLESS COMMIES NEED A GOOD KICKIN'?
[QUOTE=macdoo999;45252644]this is a bit of a dilemma for radical american catholics. Is JESUS THE ONE TRU LORD WIT DA POPE AS HIS MOUTHPIECE or do THOSE GOSH DARN GODLESS COMMIES NEED A GOOD KICKIN'?[/QUOTE] Pinko commie stole muh Christianity. problem solved.
That's complete truth. All the "principles of communism" replicate the rules from the bible. Actually it's hard to not copy the bible in at least something if you are making a social structure.
Thomas Moores Utopia has some very fundamental simularities with the communist ethos, the Pope's statement has some truth to it.
[QUOTE=macdoo999;45252644]this is a bit of a dilemma for radical american catholics. Is JESUS THE ONE TRU LORD WIT DA POPE AS HIS MOUTHPIECE or do THOSE GOSH DARN GODLESS COMMIES NEED A GOOD KICKIN'?[/QUOTE] Well american catholics aren't all that common compared to protestants so there's that. I'd say, you're more likely to find catholics among the more recent immigrants then the traditional GOP voters.
[QUOTE=macdoo999;45252644]this is a bit of a dilemma for radical american catholics. Is JESUS THE ONE TRU LORD WIT DA POPE AS HIS MOUTHPIECE or do THOSE GOSH DARN GODLESS COMMIES NEED A GOOD KICKIN'?[/QUOTE] Aren't most christians (radicals included) in America protestant though
Glorious Communism has never stole anything from Christianity. To the gulag with the Pope!
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45253024]Aren't most christians (radicals included) in America protestant though[/QUOTE] [img]http://religions.pewforum.org/img/major_religious_traditions.gif[/img] [url=http://religions.pewforum.org/reports]Source[/url]
Wow I had no idea Christianity came up with the idea of putting the means of production in the hands of the workers and removing private enterprise and property. Oh yeah that's right, it never did. Communism also doesn't involve buying massive amounts of private property and hording vaste wealth like the Catholic Church
We should try to interpret what the pope actually meant before start criticizing. Communism and Christianity are similar because of the [I]original[/I] goal both the ideology and the religion had. Although with different approaches, the central idea is always the same: to help the poor and to improve the society. Of course, we all know the limits of the two movements. On one hand, communism has an extreme approach that has always brought to dictatorships and wars (thank god it spawned also efficient and democratic movements like the labourists and the social democrats).On the other hand the catholic Church has been consumed for centuries by power struggles and hypocrisy, becoming more and more an authoritarian institution. But we've also seen examples of a sane Church, like Mother Theresa of Calcutta, Pope Francis and so-called "social-christian" parties (like the Italian popular party in the '20s) Still, you can agree with what the pope said or criticize his point of view, but I think everybody should consider what I wrote that before going on a polemic rampage.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;45253230]Wow I had no idea Christianity came up with the idea of putting the means of production in the hands of the workers and removing private enterprise and property. Oh yeah that's right, it never did. Communism also doesn't involve buying massive amounts of private property and hording vaste wealth like the Catholic Church[/QUOTE] When it was settling, the question of property and capital just didn't exist. It was all clear - monarch owns, feodals own. It's more about basic (to us) things. Don't kill your neighboor, don't fuck his wife. Don't cheat. If you do something bad come to the church and tell us about it. Don't suicide for fucks sake. And so on. Yet it also stated more complex things like equality. Christianity states we are all equal in rights as we are all gods children. Now that sounds really Leniny, right? There is much more to it, but I am not infromed enough to elaborate further.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45253395] Yet it also stated more complex things like equality. Christianity states we are all equal in rights as we are all gods children. Now that sounds really Leniny, right? [/QUOTE] Yes everyone has equal right, unless you're a woman or a gay person, then you're lesser. Honestly Christianity is not that communistic at all, communism and socialism is more than just throwing a few pennies at poor people every so often.
[QUOTE=mfreyrie;45253370]We should try to interpret what the pope actually meant before start criticizing. Communism and Christianity are similar because of the [I]original[/I] goal both the ideology and the religion had. Although with different approaches, the central idea is always the same: to help the poor and to improve the society. Of course, we all know the limits of the two movements. On one hand, communism has an extreme approach that has always brought to dictatorships and wars (thank god it spawned also efficient and democratic movements like the labourists and the social democrats).On the other hand the catholic Church has been consumed for centuries by power struggles and hypocrisy, becoming more and more an authoritarian institution. But we've also seen examples of a sane Church, like Mother Theresa of Calcutta, Pope Francis and so-called "social-christian" parties (like the Italian popular party in the '20s) Still, you can agree with what the pope said or criticize his point of view, but I think everybody should consider what I wrote that before going on a polemic rampage.[/QUOTE] I don't think the goal of church and religion is to help the poor or improve society. It was mostly needed to control and unite the people. It's extremely clear in Russia when the Tsar actually had 3 religions to choose from (Catholicism, Orthodox, Islam) and he chose Orthodox simply because it's head, the Patriarch, stands a step below the Tsar on the hierarchy. It was a mean to secure power, a good way to dictate how people should live. It brought unofficial laws that made it easier to live by condemning most crimes. "I am going to jail for a year if I steal that thing" and "I am going to suffer in hell for the rest of my life" are two different things. So yeah that can be called "improve society", but I doubt that was the higher goal. "Make it more stable" and "keep it under control" sounds more realistic. I think communism was for most it's leaders a way to gain power. This is why they mostly became dictators. [editline]30th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=carcarcargo;45253410]Yes everyone has equal right, unless you're a woman or a gay person, then you're lesser. Honestly Christianity is not that communistic at all, communism and socialism is more than just throwing a few pennies at poor people every so often.[/QUOTE] Christianity is not communistic, but communism sure borrowed some ideas( on purporse or not ).
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45253425] Christianity is not communistic, but communism sure borrowed some ideas( on purporse or not ).[/QUOTE] Which ideas?
The poor were nothing but a pawn to be used, by communism or churches alike.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;45253441]Which ideas?[/QUOTE] A 1 minute google search [url]http://antispirituality.net/marxism-religion[/url]
Surely Jesus advocated private charity, not a radical restructuring of the State?
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;45253441]Which ideas?[/QUOTE] You are trying your absolute hardest to avoid reading what the pope actually said aren't you?
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45253425]I don't think the goal of church and religion is to help the poor or improve society. It was mostly needed to control and unite the people. It's extremely clear in Russia when the Tsar actually had 3 religions to choose from (Catholicism, Orthodox, Islam) and he chose Orthodox simply because it's head, the Patriarch, stands a step below the Tsar on the hierarchy. It was a mean to secure power, a good way to dictate how people should live. It brought unofficial laws that made it easier to live by condemning most crimes. "I am going to jail for a year if I steal that thing" and "I am going to suffer in hell for the rest of my life" are two different things. So yeah that can be called "improve society", but I doubt that was the higher goal. "Make it more stable" and "keep it under control" sounds more realistic. [/QUOTE] Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. Well, I still think that the original goal was that. We should not confuse what the Church was for the last 1000 years and what it was meant to be. And an agnostic is telling you that.
[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;45253479]A 1 minute google search [url]http://antispirituality.net/marxism-religion[/url][/QUOTE] That's just an anti communism site comparing the bible with totalitarian states, it doesn't show any real similarities between the actual ideas of communism and socialism compared with the bible. [editline]30th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=asteroidrules;45253488]You are trying your absolute hardest to avoid reading what the pope actually said aren't you?[/QUOTE] I did read what the pope said and the pope is wrong
Note: He's more or less right. Christian Communism and Christian Socialism is an established and respected branch of socialism that used to be a lot more prominent before the Red Scares. There's still some followers of it around. The Pope is incorrect, though, in assuming that communism was based off of Christianity- this isn't really the case, because primitive communism existed long before the Bible. To give credit to Christianity for what history deserves is kinda simplifying it. good pope regardless
[QUOTE=Matthew0505;45253596]Pope confirmed for Soviet sleeper [img]http://s3.timetoast.com/public/uploads/photos/5380814/octostalin.jpg?1398108060[/img][/QUOTE] Someone please make a soviet popetapus
[QUOTE=1legmidget;45253898]Someone please make a soviet popetapus[/QUOTE] [img]http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/v1/designs/11986629,width=178,height=178/Gold---White-Squid-Pope.png[/img] All I could find using google was this, but it might serve as a background for somebody else to potatochop if needed.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];45253799']Note: He's more or less right. Christian Communism and Christian Socialism is an established and respected branch of socialism that used to be a lot more prominent before the Red Scares. There's still some followers of it around. The Pope is incorrect, though, in assuming that communism was based off of Christianity- this isn't really the case, because primitive communism existed long before the Bible. To give credit to Christianity for what history deserves is kinda simplifying it. good pope regardless[/QUOTE] Yeah but Christian communism came after Marx rather than before
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;45254036]Yeah but Christian communism came after Marx rather than before[/QUOTE] No, not really. The concept of Christian communism came well before. For instance, the settlers at Jamestown practiced Christian communalism. The Pope himself just said that these concepts existed within the Bible, and it was the Bible, not the Manifesto, which inspired Christian communism for much of its existence. Marx simply provided an economic incentive for the ideology, and gave it structure beyond religious philosophy. The actual practice, like primitive communism, existed and occurred long before Marx was even born.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];45254309']No, not really. The concept of Christian communism came well before. For instance, the settlers at Jamestown practiced Christian communalism. The Pope himself just said that these concepts existed within the Bible, and it was the Bible, not the Manifesto, which inspired Christian communism for much of its existence. Marx simply provided an economic incentive for the ideology, and gave it structure beyond religious philosophy. The actual practice, like primitive communism, existed and occurred long before Marx was even born.[/QUOTE] Yeah but primitive Marxism also existed before Christianity as well, but that stuffs mostly just very basic communal living when it was necessary rather than what Marxist communism aims for
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