Being attracted to children. It seems to pop up more and more on Facepunch in various news threads, confession threads, and it's a hugely taboo thing in society. So let's discuss it and poke it with a stick using words!
First of all, terminology! In this thread please use the words as so:
Pedophile: Somebody attracted to childrens.
Pedophilia: The condition of being attracted to children.
Child rapist: Pretty much what the media means when they refer to 'pedophilia'.
So here are some subject examples we may discuss:
What do you think of pedophiles?
Is pedophilia a fetish or orientation?
Should the term pedophile be used interchangably with a child rapist?
Are pedophiles victimized?
How does one cope with being a pedophile?
Should child porn be legal?
Lolicon hentai.
Should lolicon hentai be illegal?
Terminology.
Here are some subjects we [b]won't[/b] discuss:
How to access child porn.
How to have sex with children.
Illegal websites.
Pictures.
[b]Who may or may not be a pedophile.[/b] I want to stress this clearly: NO OUTING PEOPLE.
I suppose this thread could be a support thread of some sort too, which is why it's in GD. I imagine it'd be nice to know you're not alone.
Disclaimer: I'm making this thread because I haven't seen it made yet. If this thread breaks any rules, please inform me mods and I'll do whatever you want.
While I have clear views on this topic, Facepunch is not the place to discuss it and I really don't fancy digging in for a trench war, this would be better suited to the debate forum too if at all really.
[QUOTE=Ereunity;38510859]While I have clear views on this topic, Facepunch is not the place to discuss it and I really don't fancy digging in for a trench war, this would be better suited to the debate forum too if at all really.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't say it's not the place to discuss it. We have dargon megathreads.
That and mass debate doesn't encourage unity and support like I want to have in this discussion. It's more of a vicious fight.
This is going to get messy very quickly
Pretty much this;
[QUOTE=download;38510888]This is going to get messy very quickly[/QUOTE]
Topics like this, evidently extremely controversial, (and in many cases personal,) are generally extremely hastily derailed into something either not appropriate for the forums or otherwise ridiculous.
I can see this immediately drifting into "Pedophile doesn't mean rapist!" and "Yes it does!" back and forth that's so common.
Paedophiles: Nothing wrong with them, should be treated as normal people and not be witch hunted for nonsensical reasons.
Child rapists: Needs harder punishment and laws needs to be adjusted to catch these kind people instead of everyone but these people.
I feel that sums it up for me.
[QUOTE=dgg;38510904]Paedophiles: Nothing wrong with them, should be treated as normal people and not be witch hunted for nonsensical reasons.
Child rapists: Needs harder punishment and laws needs to be adjusted to catch these kind people instead of everyone but these people.
I feel that sums it up for me.[/QUOTE]
discussion is over, everyone go home now
Maybe I have faith in humanity a little too much, but it's not that hard to keep on topic. Predications are being made about how things are going to go horrible, but it hasn't happened yet.
I've attempted to stucture the OP in a format that will discourage derailing and co-operation. Ideally this thread should have pretty much agreement (from what I've seen in previous articles and whatnot), which is why I also hope to have it as a support thread for people coping with it.
[QUOTE=dgg;38510904]Paedophiles: Nothing wrong with them, should be treated as normal people and not be witch hunted for nonsensical reasons.
Child rapists: Needs harder punishment and laws needs to be adjusted to catch these kind people instead of everyone but these people.
I feel that sums it up for me.[/QUOTE]
I believe education is a big factor too with the media using the terms interchangably.
[QUOTE=Inufin;38510915]discussion is over, everyone go home now[/QUOTE]no.
welcome to discussion threads. you're supposed to discuss the topic they were created for in them. if you want the discussion to be over (for you) then get out of the thread lol.
Usually I make excruciatingly long posts about this, I'll just sum up what I think in [I](relatively)[/I] short terms.
[B]What do you think of pedophiles?[/B]
There are good pedophiles and there are bad pedophiles: Those who have common sense and a sense for consequences, those who actually care for children, and on the other side there are those who can't. These are the ones we see in the media.
[B]Is pedophilia a fetish or orientation?[/B]
The terminology discussion sucks. Call it a fetish, orientation, sexuality, deviant sexuality or a mental illness. They mean pretty much the same, the important bit is that just like heterosexuality and homosexuality, it cannot be considered something that can just be [I]"cured"[/I].
[B]Should the term pedophile be used interchangably with a child rapist?[/B]
'Course not. The fact that those terms are considered equal is part of the reason why people are ignorant about what pedophiles are and are not.
[B]Are pedophiles victimized?[/B]
Yes. There are plenty who would never harm children but who would still be considered monsters. One could also say that sometimes, punishments for those who do break the law or do controversial things are too harsh. [I](eg. parents who get arrested for pictures of their children, countries where lolicon is illegal, etc.)[/I]
[B]How does one cope with being a pedophile?[/B]
Accept that you are what you are, don't beat yourself up over it. Realize that the fact that you feel bad about it means that you do not want to harm anyone. Stick to that, be nice to kids and never cross the line.
Also fap.
[B]Should child porn be legal?[/B]
Difficult topic.
I think so. Child porn is imagery of harm, just as any other gore, torture or death video/image you can find on the internet. Either both should be illegal or both should be legal. But production should be illegal because doing so requires you to molest a child.
There are quite a lot of points to this, I think the most important ones are that if possession is illegal, it will be scary to report it for many people if they accidentally come into possession of it, meaning it harms the chances of evidence being brought into light. Child porn should be considered evidence, not a crime in and of itself. The internet has helped capture animal abusers because the imagery ended up on the internet. They could do the same with child abusers if the material wasn't hidden in closed rings.
[B]Should lolicon hentai be illegal?[/B]
They're drawings. Anyone who says a drawing should be illegal is dumb.
[QUOTE=Jookia;38510918]support thread for people coping with it.[/QUOTE]
even though your intentions are good, i don't see why someone would want to label them self as pedophile here at facepunch - there would be better places for that. Things could only end up bad.
[QUOTE=Inufin;38510934]even though your intentions are good, i don't see why someone would want to label them self as pedophile here at facepunch - there would be better places for that. Things could only end up bad.[/QUOTE]
He didn't at any point mention that they would label themselves as paedophiles?
Just show that the support is there.
[QUOTE=dgg;38510941]He didn't at any point mention that they would label themselves as paedophiles?
Just show that the support is there.[/QUOTE]
then its me just misreading things, sorry about that
[QUOTE=dgg;38510904]
Child rapists: Needs harder punishment[/QUOTE]
[quote=Me]The thing is, very rarely do people genuinely believe that they are bad; more or less that they have good intentions but are caught up in circumstance. The people you mentioned who were on the mentally insane side probably didn't think they were bad people either, they were just too insane to realize what they were doing was wrong. I mean, look at all those letters from death row inmates; every single one of them said they felt sorry for their crimes. There's also a lot of cases with child molesters, where it seems that they don't actually think much of what they are doing until they are confronted with the consequences of them. At that point, it's a matter of self-control whether they commit the same crime again. This is why prisons should focus on rehabilitation, rather than treating them like animals for ten years of their life. [/quote]
I think punishment for child molesters shouldn't be letting them rot in a cell; even if intensive treatment has no effect at all, at that point it's pretty clear that they're mentally insane and should be kept in an applicable institution.
CP doesn't necessarily have to have a victim, it's just that 99.9% of the time it does. The thing with pedos is that they've been demonized to be horrible no matter what, and I don't think that's the case.
since nobody has really put a whole bunch of thought into paedophilia and treatments for it, i would definitely be interested in seeing institutions dedicated to rehabilitation in the area.
my views are that paedophilia stems from factors starting at a very young age, and from then are set in stone for the rest of your life. it's (scientifically) backed as an idea, and most rehabilitative treatments that tend to be used for things like addictions don't really work too well.
i personally believe that instead of punishing them, since they're such a minority in crime overall, it would be better to just research them.
Some of these questions makes me wonder if OP is a paedophile
:pwn:
I think so. Child porn is imagery of harm, just as any other gore, torture or death video/image you can find on the internet. Either both should be illegal or both should be legal. But production should be illegal because doing so requires you to molest a child.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;38510997]Some of these questions makes me wonder if OP is a paedophile
:pwn:[/QUOTE]if i made a thread about global simultaneous autistic lynching would you think i was a participant? i'm not trying to pick on you or anything, i'm just saying that people can be interested in things and not necessarily do them. call me OP's whiteknight or whatever, but it's highly unlikely he is a paedophile :P
Research would definitely be good, it seems that many people, even professionals like psychiatrists and psychologists, really have no idea what it means to be a pedophile. They're just as uninformed as your average joe.
I'll pop up some links just because the thread is here. I don't know much about these sites but from what I hear they do their jobs alright.
[URL=http://b4uact.org/]B4U-ACT[/URL] - This one definitely relates to the "support" idea of this thread. Maybe there are some troubled pedos out there lurking right now, check it out.
[URL=http://newgon.com/]Newgon[/URL] - Research database, wiki, and a forum too I think.
This one is also a site that leans towards pro-pedophilia arguments, so they may be biased. But I think it's better to have biased sources from both sides rather than having only the pedophilia-hysteria ridden anti side that is already biased. This is also a reason why we need more research, both sides of the argument are ignorant of the other side because they're alienated from each other. You'll see this if you check out pedophile boards.
... Like GirlChat, BoyChat and Visions of Alice. They're supposed to work as safe and supportive environments for pedophiles, they obviously stay strictly legal, but if you're not a pedo, be prepared to read some weird shit if you check it out; they do after all assume that the thoughts they are sharing are being shared with fellow pedophiles.
And also, if I had to give a point to those communities: Stop calling yourself [I]"child/girl/boy lovers"[/I], I know [I]"pedophile" [/I]is associated with extreme creepiness, but fuck, the new term is even creepier.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;38510997]Some of these questions makes me wonder if OP is a paedophile
:pwn:[/QUOTE]
And this is why no productive discussion in the area of pedophilia ever happens.
As far as I view it, there are pedphiles, and there are rapists. When you have a rapist who is also a pedophile, he rapes children. When. You have a pedophile that is a regular pedophile, he does not.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;38510997]Some of these questions makes me wonder if OP is a paedophile
:pwn:[/QUOTE]
I think this is pretty much why this thread wasn't created earlier. Somebody has to take one for the team I guess.
[QUOTE=haircare8h;38511005]I think so. Child porn is imagery of harm, just as any other gore, torture or death video/image you can find on the internet. Either both should be illegal or both should be legal. But production should be illegal because doing so requires you to molest a child.[/QUOTE]
Are gore or snuff films illegal?
To view and possess, I mean. Of course they're illegal to produce.
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;38511029]And this is why no productive discussion in the area of pedophilia ever happens.
As far as I view it, there are pedphiles, and there are rapists. When you have a rapist who is also a pedophile, he rapes children. When. You have a pedophile that is a regular pedophile, he does not.[/QUOTE]
Though everyone always mistakenly links paedophiles with child rapists.
[QUOTE=JesterUK;38511068]Are gore or snuff films illegal?[/QUOTE]
3 guys 1 hammer is a snuff film, possessing it is, as far as I know, completely legal.
But obviously creating it is illegal, or more precisely, it is illegal to kill someone. Filming it isn't what makes it illegal of course, filming it just means that there is evidence of it.
In principle I think it should work the same way for child pornography.
Gore isn't illegal, but I think the point many people will bring up is that filming gore, accidents, death or someone else committing a murder is different. The event would have happened regardless of whether or not someone was filming, whereas if a snuff video wasn't created, the victim would also not have been murdered.
But I think people who create child pornography will molest children regardless. It's not like they gain something special out of creating it unless someone pays them for it. What would their reasons be other than fulfilling their abusive desires? A high viewcount? I think not.
[B]EDIT:[/B]
Eh, I'd like this thread to be more focused on discussing pedophilia and coping with it rather than it being another discussion about the legality of child porn. Obviously, child pornography is bad since it (arguably: almost) always contains abuse. So rather I think lolicon, fantasies, text and lucid dreaming should be advocated.
And another thing for coping with it, I think it's important to find someone to confide in. For many people and places in the world it can be dangerous to come out, so find a safe environment or a person.
Oh, yeah. I remember [url=http://www.reddit.com/r/ForeverAlone/comments/127isg/why_ill_be_forever_alone/]this[/url] was on the best of Reddit a while ago. Could be fake, could not, but overall it was a pretty interesting read about this very subject.
I guess it makes pedophiles look a lot more 'human' seeing it from that point of view.
why the fuck are kids encouraged to wear push up bras and be sexualized when they're 13
that's not a kid that's fucking disgusting
[QUOTE=dgg;38510904]Paedophiles: Nothing wrong with them, should be treated as normal people and not be witch hunted for nonsensical reasons.
Child rapists: Needs harder punishment and laws needs to be adjusted to catch these kind people instead of everyone but these people.
I feel that sums it up for me.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much, yeah.
Jimmy Saville is my friend
Let's not.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
