[quote]The Swedish daily Svenska Dagbladet said that public support for Sweden joining NATO has reached a record high.
According to the paper, 40 percent of the Swedish population now support joining the alliance. Although the support is higher than ever, 42 percent are still against it.
Sweden is well known for its long-standing neutrality - the country didn't participate in the World wars, or join NATO after World War II. However, the recent conflict in Ukraine and a reported incursion of a Russian submarine into Swedish waters in October - which caused a frenzy of Swedish military activity in a pursuit of the sub - has increased support for NATO.[/quote]
[URL="http://news.err.ee/v/International/ae581891-bb9d-461a-a265-c167a633d8ed"]Source[/URL]
we love you too sweden
Am I the only one disturbed by the fact that not a single country has left NATO since the Iraq War? We're living in the aftermath of a war of aggression which was waged on completely fabricated pretenses by the United States and there has been no noticeable effect on American influence in Europe, if anything it's gotten stronger.
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;46615576]Am I the only one disturbed by the fact that not a single country has left NATO since the Iraq War? We're living in the aftermath of a war of aggression which was waged on completely fabricated pretenses by the United States and there has been no noticeable effect on American influence in Europe, if anything it's gotten stronger.[/QUOTE]
There was some fingers being pointed at the US from Europe but you can thank Russia's actions for making NATO much stronger than it's ever been
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;46615576]Am I the only one disturbed by the fact that not a single country has left NATO since the Iraq War? We're living in the aftermath of a war of aggression which was waged on completely fabricated pretenses by the United States and there has been no noticeable effect on American influence in Europe, if anything it's gotten stronger.[/QUOTE]
NATO would be practically useless without the US. The US being the foremost most powerful deterrent, that is. That's one of the reasons why no one has really called on the US to leave.
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;46615576]Am I the only one disturbed by the fact that not a single country has left NATO since the Iraq War? We're living in the aftermath of a war of aggression which was waged on completely fabricated pretenses by the United States and there has been no noticeable effect on American influence in Europe, if anything it's gotten stronger.[/QUOTE]
Was waiting for you to show up.
We went into Iraq since we had the information from the CIA that turned out to be false, and we didn't know what the outcome would be.
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;46615576]Am I the only one disturbed by the fact that not a single country has left NATO since the Iraq War? We're living in the aftermath of a war of aggression which was waged on completely fabricated pretenses by the United States and there has been no noticeable effect on American influence in Europe, if anything it's gotten stronger.[/QUOTE]
Why would anyone leave the strongest military alliance in the world especially when it includes the United States. That country alone is basically the sole reason for no one to attack you ever.
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;46615576]Am I the only one disturbed by the fact that not a single country has left NATO since the Iraq War? We're living in the aftermath of a war of aggression which was waged on completely fabricated pretenses by the United States and there has been no noticeable effect on American influence in Europe, if anything it's gotten stronger.[/QUOTE]
You are impossible to take seriously.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;46615688]Was waiting for you to show up.
We went into Iraq since we had the information from the CIA that turned out to be false, and we didn't know what the outcome would be.[/QUOTE]
Seems like a bad reason to kill people imo.
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;46615576]Am I the only one disturbed by the fact that not a single country has left NATO since the Iraq War? We're living in the aftermath of a war of aggression which was waged on completely fabricated pretenses by the United States and there has been no noticeable effect on American influence in Europe, if anything it's gotten stronger.[/QUOTE]
are you capable of not spewing bullshit or is something like that beyond you
Russia is scary
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;46615576]Am I the only one disturbed by the fact that not a single country has left NATO since the Iraq War? We're living in the aftermath of a war of aggression which was waged on completely fabricated pretenses by the United States and there has been no noticeable effect on American influence in Europe, if anything it's gotten stronger.[/QUOTE]
While i share some of your sentiment with NATO's power base, mostly due to the wars that have gone on in the past (especially with alliance systems like ww2) It's become necessary in the 21st century to both live and fight alongside other countries, the world can't survive alone in this world of globalization.
The only way that will change is if the people want to change, and with psy-ops campaigns, and complete control over retaining the status quo, it'll never change until people realize they have the power to do something about it. Just the way things are. We're awefully similar as a nation to the roman republic, right down to the senate and consols rather wanting popularity among other senators, and now adays the corporations (aka the Etruscan league).
american influence in europe will be strong until another country occupies the region for over 50 years. just the way it will be.
[QUOTE=Wormy;46618204]I wish our politicians would not be against joining NATO, it would do good for us because of our weak military defense.[/QUOTE]
We can rebuild it ourselves. We have not been in a war against another country in over 200 years and it should stay so. A war between Russia and Nato may be a reality in the future and Sweden should stay outside it.
[QUOTE=kimr120;46618382]We can rebuild it ourselves. We have not been in a war against another country in over 200 years and it should stay so. A war between Russia and Nato may be a reality in the future and Sweden should stay outside it.[/QUOTE]
What if we are the ones in the sights of russia
Wouldn't we like to have someone to help us defend ourselves? Being a member of NATO alone is enough to deter an attack in the first place.
I hope Sweden doesn't have to be forced in to NATO due to this scare, as much as we'd welcome our Swedish brethren they have been war free for over two centuries.
Doesn't Finland and Sweden share a "if you won't join, I won't" type of attitude towards NATO.
How's the support for NATO in Finland?
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;46615688]Was waiting for you to show up.
We went into Iraq since we had the i[B]nformation[/B] from the CIA that [B]turned out to be false[/B], and we [B]didn't know what the outcome would be[/B].[/QUOTE]
I know it's an oversimplification, but isn't that one of the cases where you go back to the drawing board/ discussion table, instead of going into action?
Because in other areas like the Cold War, the US had the precision of a surgeon, and played its moves on the interantional scene based on complex tinkering and mathematical analysis, game theory, etc.
[QUOTE=Saphirx;46618747]Doesn't Finland and Sweden share a "if you won't join, I won't" type of attitude towards NATO.
How's the support for NATO in Finland?[/QUOTE]
Well, it definitely gained support ever since Putin started being a fucking dick.
I think if you guys join, we will have no choice but to join too.
Joining NATO would obviously prevent any Ukraine-like clusterfuck ever happening over here, but then again NATO expanding right to Russia's doorstep could set off something terrible...
[QUOTE=DudesonFan;46619019]Well, it definitely gained support ever since Putin started being a fucking dick.
I think if you guys join, we will have no choice but to join too.
Joining NATO would obviously prevent any Ukraine-like clusterfuck ever happening over here, but then again NATO expanding right to Russia's doorstep could set off something terrible...[/QUOTE]
Something terrible? I'd say it's overarching paranoia by the Russian military & government. Finland & Sweden should join NATO, both provides inter-governmental co-operation in adverse conditions but also during peacetime comprehensive training schedules & training with other NATO militaries, boosting cohesion. Maybe for once Russia will think again seeing some of it's former Soviet satellites on the side which aims to prevent any unilateral military action by the Russian government.
[QUOTE=DudesonFan;46619019]
Joining NATO would obviously prevent any Ukraine-like clusterfuck ever happening over here, but then again [B]NATO[/B] expanding [B]right to Russia's doorstep[/B] could set off something terrible...[/QUOTE]
That's a dumb argument because Nato already shares land borders with Russia in Estonia& Latvia, Poland& Lithuania(via Kaliningrad), Norway, and sea borders in the Black Sea with Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey.
[QUOTE=kimr120;46618382]We can rebuild it ourselves. We have not been in a war against another country in over 200 years and it should stay so. [B]A war between Russia and Nato may be a reality in the future and Sweden should stay outside it[/B].[/QUOTE]
You have any idea how naive that is?
A world war at your doorstep and you think the neutrality would get respected? lol
[QUOTE=kimr120;46618382]We can rebuild it ourselves. We have not been in a war against another country in over 200 years and it should stay so. A war between Russia and Nato may be a reality in the future and Sweden should stay outside it.[/QUOTE]
That's really a technicality more than a true fact. While you might not have declared war with another country for 200 years, Sweden did play a role in WW2 for the Allies.
[QUOTE=godfatherk;46619130]That's a dumb argument because Nato already shares land borders with Russia in Estonia& Latvia, Poland& Lithuania(via Kaliningrad), Norway, and sea borders in the Black Sea with Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey.[/QUOTE]
True, but Putin might throw a shitfit if he loses the last remaining NATO buffer zone.
But Russia only has themselves to blame if that happens.
[QUOTE=DudesonFan;46619019]Well, it definitely gained support ever since Putin started being a fucking dick.
I think if you guys join, we will have no choice but to join too.
Joining NATO would obviously prevent any Ukraine-like clusterfuck ever happening over here, but then again NATO expanding right to Russia's doorstep could set off something terrible...[/QUOTE]
I doubt a Ukraine like clusterfuck would ever happen here.
Because there ain't that many pro Russian separatists in Finland.
I don't see Finland joining NATO anytime soon, even if Sweden does.
[QUOTE=Saphirx;46618747]Doesn't Finland and Sweden share a "if you won't join, I won't" type of attitude towards NATO.
How's the support for NATO in Finland?[/QUOTE]
More people oppose it than are for it. It's mostly the "winter war fuck yeah" nationalistic mentality of the older generation that has the most influence, a lot of people actually believe that Finland can defend itself against a modern Russian army because it happened in the 1940s. They are slowly waking up though especially after the recent Ukraine stuff and the support for NATO is rising steadily, it's only at 26% still though so a long way to go.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;46615688]Was waiting for you to show up.
We went into Iraq since we had the information from the CIA that turned out to be false, and we didn't know what the outcome would be.[/QUOTE]
Which came from British Intelligence.
In a place that was that was trying to strange England and Europe for more oil money.
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