Russia & China snub dollar as second $400bn gas deal signed
25 replies, posted
[IMG]http://a.abcnews.com/images/International/WireAP_f21fcf24e2bc417ba8e7ef34bdaaf9bd_16x9_992.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE]
Moscow and Beijing signed an agreement to supply gas from western Siberia to China, in a deal that could eventually see more of Russia’s gas flowing to its vast eastern neighbour than to its traditional European markets.
Assuming crucial details such as price are agreed, the deal would mark another big step in President Vladimir Putin’s efforts to build a closer energy relationship with China to offset increasing isolation from the west.
Chafing under US and EU sanctions imposed over its support for Russian separatists in Ukraine. Russia has long sought to reduce its dependence on Europe as a customer for its gas and diversify its export markets, as well as boost its strategic ties with China. This latest deal goes some way to meeting those goals.
Mr Putin and his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping signed it on the sidelines of the Apec summit in Beijing just as President Barack Obama arrived in the capital for the meeting.
It would see Gazprom, the Kremlin-controlled energy group, supply China’s state oil company CNPC with 30bn cubic metres of gas per year. That would be on top of the 38bcm/y Russia agreed to sell China in a $400bn agreement signed in May.
The May deal involved gas from yet-to-be-developed fields in the remote tundra of eastern Siberia. However, the latest agreement, which is based on what Moscow refers to as the “western” route, would supply China with gas from fields in western Siberia that is currently piped to Europe.
“Taking into account the increase in gas supplies along the western route, the overall volumes of gas exported to China might exceed supplies to Europe in the medium term,” said Alexei Miller, chief executive of Gazprom.
He said the western route was “becoming a priority project in our gas co-operation”.
Western Siberia is roughly equidistant from Europe and Asia so, once the necessary pipelines are built, gas produced there could be shipped to whichever market offered the most attractive terms.
However, Russian and Chinese officials have been discussing the western route for years, and experts said the new framework agreement was just the latest stage in a long-running negotiation that might not result in a commercial deal.
Also, Russia provided Europe with 160bcm of gas last year, so it is expected to remain the country’s largest export market for gas for years to come.
Keun-Wook Paik, senior research fellow at the Oxford Institute for Energy Studies, said Russia was trying to pre-empt exports of liquefied natural gas from the US, which could start reaching China later this decade.
“President Putin is alarmed that US LNG is targeting the Asian market,” he said. “So before [this] starts arriving in China, Russia needs to carve out a share of the Chinese market in pipeline gas.”
He said China will be the “battleground for the US and Russia as they both pivot to Asia”.
Separately, CNPC would also buy a 10 per cent stake in Russia’s Vankorneft, a subsidiary of Russian state oil producer Rosneft.
An initial map released by Gazprom to Russian media indicates the western gas pipeline would cross the narrow and environmentally sensitive border in China’s far western region of Xinjiang. Earlier negotiations had opened the possibility of a longer route through Kazakhstan or Mongolia.
The Kazakh route would have allowed that country to purchase up to a third of the gas, addressing Chinese concerns about finding a market for all the contracted gas. However, some people in Kazakhstan opposed the idea of becoming dependent for energy on their larger neighbour to the north.
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[url]http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/79eeabb0-6888-11e4-acc0-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3ImIoDC00[/url]
hmm so its a race between the US to build more LNG ships and their infastructure and the russians to build pipelines and their own infastructure
coldwar 3: LNG-fired boogaloo?
Damn Putin is short.
Bet he could still kick Obama's ass in a fight though.
Watch China be the one to profit from all of this Cold War 2.0 bullshit
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;46463328]Damn Putin is short.
Bet he could still kick Obama's ass in a fight though.[/QUOTE]
I think almost anybody can kick Obama's ass in a fight.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;46463360]Watch China be the one to profit from all of this Cold War 2.0 bullshit[/QUOTE]
Obligatory C&C generals quote
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;46463328]Damn Putin is short.
Bet he could still kick Obama's ass in a fight though.[/QUOTE]
Wasn't putin ex-spetsnaz?
[QUOTE=martijnp3000;46463527]Wasn't putin ex-spetsnaz?[/QUOTE]
He had a mid-level desk job in a KGB office.
So many people have bought into the mach-Putin propaganda lol it's worked flawlessly. "He could totally kick Obama's ass!" It's ridiculous.
Whats Jackie Chan doing there
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;46463328]Damn Putin is short.
Bet he could still kick Obama's ass in a fight though.[/QUOTE]
Putin is nothing more than a politically savvy desk worker.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;46463360]Watch China be the one to profit from all of this Cold War 2.0 bullshit[/QUOTE]
History repeats itself. In the Cold War there were lots of countries that played one side against the other. The Chinese are smart enough to see an opportunity. The Russians are going to find the negotiating tough, since the Chinese will have the advantage of knowing Russia needs the deal.
Putin looks like he's checking someone out.
Probably Xi's wife.
[QUOTE=Explosions;46463659]He had a mid-level desk job in a KGB office.
So many people have bought into the mach-Putin propaganda lol it's worked flawlessly. "He could totally kick Obama's ass!" It's ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
He probably could. Putin is well versed in Judo. Propaganda aside, he probably could since Obama is skinny and tall and Putin is built and short.
[editline]11th November 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Deng;46463707]Putin is nothing more than a politically savvy desk worker.[/QUOTE]
One hell of a fucking leader if he can manipulate 85% of Russia and steal territory in Europe getting through with only minor face saving sanctions.
That sure is a sensationalist headline. Also this "deal", much like the last one bends Russia over a barrel because they have absolutely no leverage over Beijing. Not to mention it isn't a final proposal it is a framework for a deal, a non-binding one at that. It says right in your article as a matter of fact:
[QUOTE]However, Russian and Chinese officials have been discussing the western route for years, and experts said the new framework agreement was just the latest stage in a long-running negotiation that might not result in a commercial deal.
[/QUOTE]
It also says the fields haven't been developed yet, and if you've noticed oil prices have slumped quite a bit. Also keep in mind Gazprom would have to develop the fields, which is by far the most expensive part of the whole process.Those depressed prices to a one-trick pony economy like Russia are forcing it to come to the negotiating table with a weaker hand than Beijing which could easily get the energy it needs from Turkmenistan, the US or others.
[QUOTE]"The price of Russian gas is linked to that of oil. Since May, the value of the Chinese contract shrank to $300 billion. The low price of oil complicates the price negotiation," said Mikhail Korchemkin, a director of U.S.-based consultancy East European Gas Analysis.
That compares with an estimated $55 billion needed to develop east Siberian gas fields and build the Power of Siberia pipeline to China.
The price of Russian gas was also the major obstacle in talks for the eastern deal before it was agreed in May.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/10/us-russia-china-gas-idUSKCN0IU17K20141110"]Source[/URL]
[QUOTE=laserguided;46465250]One hell of a fucking leader if he can manipulate 85% of Russia and steal territory in Europe getting through with only minor face saving sanctions.[/QUOTE]
The sanctions are starting to cripple Russia though. They're already going into recession and the ruble is constantly losing value. Once the wealthy Russians can't buy their iphones anymore they'll start to get angry.
[QUOTE=Deng;46466394]The sanctions are starting to cripple Russia though. They're already going into recession and the ruble is constantly losing value. Once the wealthy Russians can't buy their iphones anymore they'll start to get angry.[/QUOTE]
Angry Wealthy people? What they gonna do, emigrate?
[QUOTE=Deng;46466394]The sanctions are starting to cripple Russia though. They're already going into recession...[/QUOTE]
They are in recession since October Revolution.
[QUOTE=Deng;46466394]The sanctions are starting to cripple Russia though. They're already going into recession and the ruble is constantly losing value. Once the wealthy Russians can't buy their iphones anymore they'll start to get angry.[/QUOTE]
What will they do? The righteous fury amongst the Russian population towards Western Governments is not exclusive to wealthy Russians. You seriously think they will try to force Putin to do what the West wants because of these sanctions?
[QUOTE=karimatrix;46466431]Angry Wealthy people? What they gonna do, emigrate?[/QUOTE]
Worse, there'll be this loud sucking sound of money from Russia.
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;46466577]What will they do? The righteous fury amongst the Russian population towards Western Governments is not exclusive to wealthy Russians. You seriously think they will try to force Putin to do what the West wants because of these sanctions?[/QUOTE]
Blaming the west doesn't work out well in history.
[QUOTE=Explosions;46463659]He had a mid-level desk job in a KGB office.
So many people have bought into the mach-Putin propaganda lol it's worked flawlessly. "He could totally kick Obama's ass!" It's ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
Nonsense, Putin wrestles bears and catches fish with his bear hands.
[QUOTE=helifreak;46466830]Nonsense, Putin wrestles bears and catches fish with his[B] bear hands[/B].[/QUOTE]
not sure if typo or not, but it sounds cool
[QUOTE=Explosions;46463659]He had a mid-level desk job in a KGB office.
So many people have bought into the mach-Putin propaganda lol it's worked flawlessly. "He could totally kick Obama's ass!" It's ridiculous.[/QUOTE]... Except he probably could? Obama's only kinda-sorta good at basketball and has lived a comfortable life, he doesn't have any physical skills that could match what Putin has going on. I would never, ever bet on Obama winning a physical fight unless his opponent was a fat teenager with a gimp leg.
I don't know where the hell your post came from, so what if he had a desk job? That means exactly jack shit because we're talking about Putin and Obama as they are [i]right now.[/i]
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;46467014]... Except he probably could? Obama's only kinda-sorta good at basketball and has lived a comfortable life, he doesn't have any physical skills that could match what Putin has going on. I would never, ever bet on Obama winning a physical fight unless his opponent was a fat teenager with a gimp leg.
I don't know where the hell your post came from, so what if he had a desk job? That means exactly jack shit because we're talking about Putin and Obama as they are [i]right now.[/i][/QUOTE]
I would like to remind ya peeps that Putin also good at martial arts, ya know?
[img]http://en.rian.ru/images/17642/00/176420031.jpg[/img]
just sayin, ya know.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;46467165]I would like to remind ya peeps that Putin also good at martial arts, ya know?
[img]http://en.rian.ru/images/17642/00/176420031.jpg[/img]
just sayin, ya know.[/QUOTE]
blackbelt just means you have mastered the basics
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