For years, we have seen the United States of America decline into an utter hit and miss situation. The country as itself has begun to fall victim to many of the same things the great Roman Empire did. The start of the decline is obscure but recently, our situation has become clear. We are in a recession, now a depression that has crumbled our economy, banks, infrastructure, and our moral. The Roman Empire had also shown these declines through their last years before the downfall (and the split). We see that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. This is not a good thing. This is showing that something internally is wrong. Something is making it hard for people to make a living in “the land of opportunity”. The past presidential elections have just been messages of change, restructuring, and less taxes – aka time to improve, all of which have failed to do so. Many blame President Bush (Jr.) with the downfall of the states but I am here saying that it is the people of America that is bringing us down. We are not doing enough to protect who we are from what we are becoming. We have come from a very mind-speaking culture to one that is nothing more than a pushover. Our senators and representatives are not listening to what we are saying but are fighting over their party platforms. It has become impossible to get someone new into office unless you have come from a family that from the office.
The congress is bought. The congress is truly bought. They are afraid to speak their minds about the real issues of America because they are worried about be re-elected into the same place that they are now. They listen to the lobbyists because they will provide money for their campaign and their parties. Our senators are not listening to the real issues at hand, the unemployment, health crisis, and the shrinking economy. It is time to change the way we are seeing the role of government. The Occupy Wall Street regime is showing this. They are saying that too much money is in the government, the rich are too rich. The occupation has started a world protest. What started in New York has now spread across the world. Without the two-party system getting a major reform, we are going to get the same thing that has been going on since the start: Old men with money fighting over stupid topics. We do not need things in place that will protect companies from being sued or things that limit ones freedom on the internet. We need things that will protect our country from items of corruption. It is time for a revolution. It is time to take a stand for what is wrong. It is time to fight the mainstream.
It is apparent that what we are doing now is not helping our country. Our elected officials that are supposed to represent our views are not doing their jobs. Our presidents continue to press the same issues from above and not from the blue-collar workforce that they tax the living hell out-of. They are not seeing the ideas and innovations that people have for the country that can pull us out of this downward spiral into complete anarchy. The government has launched a site called “We the People” that of which allows people to openly petition the government. If any-one user browses the site, they see that people are more involved with weed and its legality then the major problems that face the nation. It has been a good idea, just a bad execution.
Our economy has declined and our prices have soared. It is not inflation to blame; it is the people who speculate about the future. They can say that it is going to get better or that we are pulling-out of the depression but it is not true. It will never be true. People do not trust the government or the congress to get things done. Recently Pres. Obama had introduced the Jobs’ plan. The article aligned perfectly with both of the major parties platforms but it had failed to pass through both houses with the republicans to blame. That is a perfect example of why we cannot get anything good done in this country. We have too many people fighting over too little of details. We can strip people’s rights from them with fancy wording, we can punish the nonviolent protestors, we can hurt the ones that nurture us but! We cannot get rid of the ones doing that. Open your eyes.
If we got ourselves into this mess, we can get ourselves out. We need to scrap the entire congress and get some real thinking, non-lobbied, people in there and finally get things done with our world before we fall into a state of disparity like the Roman’s did. It is time that we do something. It is time for a new government; one that is not afraid to tell the people what is going on and addresses the issues with possible solutions.
(Posted from my Blog [url=http://www.haireola.net]Haireola.net[/url]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlSd9OURbCE[/media]
Your Idea's and Views on the country.
I agree that our Congress is bought. Everything revolves around money and not the people they represent. The other day I over heard Rick Perry (of all people) talking about his plans to reform the legislative branch should he be put into office. To be honest it sounds pretty good.
[quote]"The U.S. does not need a full-time Congress that is more focused on increasing its perks instead of reducing spending. America needs a part-time, Citizen Congress – populated with those who choose to serve not for profit, or for the promise of a high-paying lobbyist job, but for the good of their communities, states, and the nation. Even with a 50 percent pay-cut, Congressional members would still make a significantly higher income than the average American. By changing the way Congress operates, and moving towards a part-time legislature, Congressman will have the freedom to live in their communities, engage their constituents, and truly speak for the people they represent. Rules preventing members of Congress from holding private sector jobs must also be repealed. – When lawmakers hold the same types of jobs as their constituents, they will gain a much greater understanding of how congressional laws impact the real world."[/quote]
Too bad the rest of him is a potential disaster.
You're very much on the money. I don't ever want there to be a physical revolution, though. I don't care how necessary it is. I don't want a second civil war, because a [I]lot[/I] more people are going to die this time, and not just because we have a higher population.
[QUOTE=OvB;33367105]I agree that our Congress is bought. Everything revolves around money and not the people they represent. The other day I over heard Rick Perry (of all people) talking about his plans to reform the legislative branch should he be put into office. To be honest it sounds pretty good.
Too bad the rest of him is a potential disaster.[/QUOTE]
I had a lot of faith in him when he first entered the race.. because of things like that. Although now, he seems like a horrible person because of the media
[QUOTE=DarkendSky;33367107]You're very much on the money. I don't ever want there to be a physical revolution, though. I don't care how necessary it is. I don't want a second civil war, because a [I]lot[/I] more people are going to die this time, and not just because we have a higher population.[/QUOTE]
But, nothing is going to happen if we all just sit around. We can sit and talk about it with a table between us but, nothing is going to change.
I admit that you have a point. I just wish it was easy to change the political route.
[QUOTE=DarkendSky;33367293] I just wish it was easy to change the political route.[/QUOTE]
Thats the issue. The way things are set up now, its going to take a lot to change something. OWS is trying but, will ultimately fail. [From a mostly-unbiased viewpoint]
This is what I believe is going to happen. I believe America is just going to end up like every single empire in previous history, that we are going to be destroyed from within and we are already. It's just that we haven't bled out fully yet.
Am I alone in not understanding what the fuck Rattigan means when he says money is being "extracted from the United States"?? What does that even mean? WHO is extracting?
[QUOTE=seano12;33367560]This is what I believe is going to happen. I believe America is just going to end up like every single empire in previous history, that we are going to be destroyed from within and we are already. It's just that we haven't bled out fully yet.[/QUOTE]
Exactly my point. We where designed like the Romans, we will fall like the Romans.
[editline]21st November 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=luverofJ!93;33367602]Am I alone in not understanding what the fuck Rattigan means when he says money is being "extracted from the United States"?? What does that even mean? WHO is extracting?[/QUOTE]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bBQ6MAffyE[/media]
It's already building momentum, not just beginning, IMO. It's at the exact point that other empires have peaked - The point where they believe that the mistakes of the past won't effect them. "We can get away with removing these protesters as quickly as possible to protect the system we currently have that keeps us powerful, because we're a first world country and nobody would riot in a first world country"
Is it comparing to the fall of the Romans? Not quite sure myself.
Because if it is, America would need some invading mongolian pillagers to follow that particular route to ruin, which of course is a couple thousand years too late.
[QUOTE=Freakie;33368153]Is it comparing to the fall of the Romans? Not quite sure myself.
Because if it is, America would need some invading mongolian pillagers to follow that particular route to ruin, which of course is a couple thousand years too late.[/QUOTE]
Mexicans.
[editline]21st November 2011[/editline]
:v:
Nations rise and fall.
It was bound to happen eventually.
[QUOTE=minilandstan;33368961]Nations rise and fall.
It was bound to happen eventually.[/QUOTE]
Why in our lifetimes though? Will I live long enough to marry and potentially be happy or will I die to to burning, rape, and pillaging that will ensue if America goes under?
[editline]21st November 2011[/editline]
Who would be pillaging? I'm thinking the Zetas in mexico. Also big gangs on the crips and stuff.
America is going to dick-wave itself into a war it doesn't want which will ultimately cripple it
[QUOTE=seano12;33369274]Why in our lifetimes though? Will I live long enough to marry and potentially be happy or will I die to to burning, rape, and pillaging that will ensue if America goes under?
[editline]21st November 2011[/editline]
Who would be pillaging? I'm thinking the Zetas in mexico. Also big gangs on the crips and stuff.[/QUOTE]
America will take another century to painfully decline.
The death of Rome was long and protracted as well. It kept on going even after Rome officially had ended.
From the years 200 - 700, Europe was essentially in a state of permanent decline that was reversed by the end of the Arabs military conquests, the feudal system asserting itself and end of the migrations of peoples.
America will decline in a similar fashion. Not greatly noticeable but some of its ideas, customs and the such will live on long after it ends. (Slowly fading away)
This thread represents my thoughts exactly.
The problem with democracy?
Too many chefs in the kitchen.
The parallels one can draw when they put their mind to it is astonishing. Not only can you compare America to Rome, but once I compared the Confederacy to Ancient Greece. Both focused on the independence of states or city-states rather than one centralized government and they both had slaves.
I am not confident that the future will get better. I fear that we are trapped in a balloon that is slowly deflating, and all will come down on top of us.
oh god shut the fuck up about this america=rome shit
theyre not alike and never will be
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not debating" - Orkel))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=OvB;33367105]I agree that our Congress is bought. Everything revolves around money and not the people they represent. The other day I over heard Rick Perry (of all people) talking about his plans to reform the legislative branch should he be put into office. To be honest it sounds pretty good.
Too bad the rest of him is a potential disaster.[/QUOTE]
Problem is that the part-time Congress would be more easily bought out since they wouldn't have a good enough source of income from their Congressional job alone. Everybody's out for money, so it would only lead to more corruption and greed. See 15-16th century (I'm not sure which) French [i]entendents[/i] for a good idea what I'm talking about.
Also, big-time CEOs could get into Congress while also still running their company, so they can pass legislation that would help their business or hurt their competition.
It's not as good of an idea as it sounds, at least not in present form.
[QUOTE=LCBADs;33373683]oh god shut the fuck up about this america=rome shit
theyre not alike and never will be[/QUOTE]
that is a sound argument and im glad to have read it
[QUOTE=HyyperVyyper;33371579]This thread represents my thoughts exactly.
The problem with democracy?
Too many chefs in the kitchen.[/QUOTE]
It seems like I am the only one who is really saying something about this. The problems are obvious, the solutions are not.
[QUOTE=LCBADs;33373683]oh god shut the fuck up about this america=rome shit
theyre not alike and never will be[/QUOTE]
Their not alike? Rome had a senate which was a group of elected officials which only served for 6 months at a time. Rome had a Czar, we have a president. Rome had many years of the golden age, as did we.
We where founded on Roman philosophy, we act as the Romans, we will die like the Romans.
If you would get off your arrogant pedestal and took some kind of history class you would know this. Open your eyes.
[QUOTE=areolop;33374538]
Their not alike? Rome had a senate which was a group of elected officials which only served for 6 months at a time. Rome had a Czar, we have a president. Rome had many years of the golden age, as did we.
We where founded on Roman philosophy, we act as the Romans, [b]we will die like the Romans[/b].
If you would get off your arrogant pedestal and took some kind of history class you would know this. Open your eyes.[/QUOTE]
Enough fear mongering and overly dramatic preachy garbage.
There are problems that need to be solved and solutions to be had but this isn't the end of time for Americans. Jesus, every dark cloud in a American history has people like you coming out assuming this is the end and pulling the whole "fall of the roman empire" drama and yet the country still pulls through. There have been even bigger issues (racial segregation, stock market crash, dramatic social change through the 60's and early 70's etc.) that America has overcome in previous years that could have easily torn it apart but it actually came together quite well. There are highs and lows throughout a nations history and some points are lower than others. Like the economy, it was expected to get a lot worse before it could get a little better.
Are there problems with the government? Absolutely. With the biggest issues these days being Job creation, economy rebuilding and an end to our current military conflicts, we can hope that the American government will get off it's ass and stop running around in circles and actually figure something out. Everything's "republicans do this, democrats did that" and it's all just one side blaming another and doing shit all. In fact, that's probably the worse problem that needs to be remedied at the moment and it still isn't enough to bring the country down on top of itself.
My overall opinion on the Fall of the Roman empire/America fall analogy? Well, some people argue that Roman didn't actually "fall" per say but rather "transformed". It took a few centuries for rome to fall and really its stubborn existence is all it had. Once new ideas were embraced, the empire transformed. America will transform too I believe but not to the point of this "it's time to [b]fight[/b] the mainstream", calling for a revolution, stuff. That's too dramatic and entirely unoriginal.
[QUOTE=Fhenexx;33373794]Problem is that the part-time Congress would be more easily bought out since they wouldn't have a good enough source of income from their Congressional job alone. Everybody's out for money, so it would only lead to more corruption and greed. See 15-16th century (I'm not sure which) French [i]entendents[/i] for a good idea what I'm talking about.
Also, big-time CEOs could get into Congress while also still running their company, so they can pass legislation that would help their business or hurt their competition.
It's not as good of an idea as it sounds, at least not in present form.[/QUOTE]
Valid points, though those CEOs would have to be voted into congress, which the whole idea of this is to get representatives more in tune with their constituencies. It would still be up to the people to vote in either big CEO mogul or local guy that actually cares.
And even if you cut their budgets in half, they would still be making far more than the average american making "not enough income" a bullshit excuse, and likely to piss off the people that vote them in. It's a good idea but still has it's kinks, obviously. Need to get money out of congress and remove lobbying and such.
Rick's plan also calls to criminalize insider trading for congressmen, and expand the Freedom of Information Act.
It's a fairly interesting read: [url]http://www.rickperry.org/uproot-and-overhaul-washington-html/#part-time-citizen-congress[/url]
Though that's all I've read of his plan, Haven't looked over the rest of it so I won't say anything about whether or not I agree with what he says, I just find the bit on Legislative reform interesting.
[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;33375057]Enough fear mongering and overly dramatic preachy garbage.
There are problems that need to be solved and solutions to be had but this isn't the end of time for Americans. Jesus, every dark cloud in a American history has people like you coming out assuming this is the end and pulling the whole "fall of the roman empire" drama and yet the country still pulls through. There have been even bigger issues (racial segregation, stock market crash, dramatic social change through the 60's and early 70's etc.) that America has overcome in previous years that could have easily torn it apart but it actually came together quite well. There are highs and lows throughout a nations history and some points are lower than others. Like the economy, it was expected to get a lot worse before it could get a little better.
Are there problems with the government? Absolutely. With the biggest issues these days being Job creation, economy rebuilding and an end to our current military conflicts, we can hope that the American government will get off it's ass and stop running around in circles and actually figure something out. Everything's "republicans do this, democrats did that" and it's all just one side blaming another and doing shit all. In fact, that's probably the worse problem that needs to be remedied at the moment and it still isn't enough to bring the country down on top of itself.
My overall opinion on the Fall of the Roman empire/America fall analogy? Well, some people argue that Roman didn't actually "fall" per say but rather "transformed". It took a few centuries for rome to fall and really its stubborn existence is all it had. Once new ideas were embraced, the empire transformed. America will transform too I believe but not to the point of this "it's time to [b]fight[/b] the mainstream", calling for a revolution, stuff. That's too dramatic and entirely unoriginal.[/QUOTE]
Couldn't summarize it better myself.
[QUOTE=DarkendSky;33367107]You're very much on the money. I don't ever want there to be a physical revolution, though. I don't care how necessary it is. I don't want a second civil war, because a [I]lot[/I] more people are going to die this time, and not just because we have a higher population.[/QUOTE]
I am [B]HOPING[/B] there is some type of revolution. Our government is running the country into a broken down toilet. We need something to change, and change it quickly.
[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;33375057]Enough fear mongering and overly dramatic preachy garbage.
There are problems that need to be solved and solutions to be had but this isn't the end of time for Americans. Jesus, every dark cloud in a American history has people like you coming out assuming this is the end and pulling the whole "fall of the roman empire" drama and yet the country still pulls through. There have been even bigger issues (racial segregation, stock market crash, dramatic social change through the 60's and early 70's etc.) that America has overcome in previous years that could have easily torn it apart but it actually came together quite well. There are highs and lows throughout a nations history and some points are lower than others. Like the economy, it was expected to get a lot worse before it could get a little better.
Are there problems with the government? Absolutely. With the biggest issues these days being Job creation, economy rebuilding and an end to our current military conflicts, we can hope that the American government will get off it's ass and stop running around in circles and actually figure something out. Everything's "republicans do this, democrats did that" and it's all just one side blaming another and doing shit all. In fact, that's probably the worse problem that needs to be remedied at the moment and it still isn't enough to bring the country down on top of itself.
My overall opinion on the Fall of the Roman empire/America fall analogy? Well, some people argue that Roman didn't actually "fall" per say but rather "transformed". It took a few centuries for rome to fall and really its stubborn existence is all it had. Once new ideas were embraced, the empire transformed. America will transform too I believe but not to the point of this "it's time to [b]fight[/b] the mainstream", calling for a revolution, stuff. That's too dramatic and entirely unoriginal.[/QUOTE]
Lemme rephrase that: We will [I]fall[/I] like the romans.
[QUOTE=HyyperVyyper;33371579]This thread represents my thoughts exactly.
The problem with democracy?
Too many chefs in the kitchen.[/QUOTE]
Too many chefs in the kitchen that are only taking a few people's orders and are getting payed for just standing.
[QUOTE=areolop;33374538]It seems like I am the only one who is really saying something about this. The problems are obvious, the solutions are not.
Their not alike? Rome had a senate which was a group of elected officials which only served for 6 months at a time. Rome had a Czar, we have a president. Rome had many years of the golden age, as did we.
We where founded on Roman philosophy, we act as the Romans, we will die like the Romans.
If you would get off your arrogant pedestal and took some kind of history class you would know this. Open your eyes.[/QUOTE]
A head of state and a council of elected officials? Wow, that's certainly not a staple of nearly every modern government ever.
Again, many, many nations and empires have had golden ages too, that's hardly a meaningful connection.
And we weren't founded on Roman philosophy, Roman philosophy was grounded in spirituality, asceticism, and service to the state by the people, almost completely removed from philosophy of the Founding Fathers - of secularism, personal opportunity(life, liberty, pursuit of happiness), and service to the people by the state.
One of the biggest differences between the Rome and America is in regards to the fabled "fall" itself. The biggest fear is of economic collapse, that we Americans just become so decadent and corrupt that the whole country just falls to shit, that America will collapse from the inside. In contrast, the fall of Rome was - although not entirely - much more external, as in, [I]they were invaded by dozens of different tribal groups, culminating with the deposition of the Emperor by the Germanic chieftain Odoacer.[/I] Leading up to this hypothesized fall of America, who goes and divides the entire country into two pieces? What massive plagues wrack the populace? Will our two-and-a-half-million-man army be too small to defend our borders, forcing us to rely on foreign countries to do the protecting for us? And there's corruption, yes, the Roman government was corrupt, but it was always corrupt, even during its height, and it was just as corrupt as every government before or since - same as the American goverment. Like the examples above, it's hardly special.
My biggest issue with this whole "America=Rome" business is the sheer arrogance and myopia of it. Rome is perhaps [I]the[/I] defining fixture of Western civilization, it was a central figure in the rise of Christianity, it inspired and informed European art, philosophy, and culture for hundreds of years, and it continues to serve as the gold standard for prosperity and civilization in the West. Rome's memory has been invoked by great kings and tinpot dictators, by continent-spanning empires and backwater kingdoms, and everyone in between. To think that America - a nation that's only been around for the last two-hundred-and-fifty years and has only really mattered in the last one hundred - is the sucessor that that lofty place in history is really kinda ridiculous.
WW3 will save us just like WW2 did
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