Congressman wants to curb the Military Surplus program with police agencies. - Polidicks

[quote]WASHINGTON -- Images of police outfitted in paramilitary gear clashing with protesters in suburban St. Louis after the weekend shooting death of unarmed black teenager is giving new impetus to efforts to rein in a Pentagon program that provides free machine guns and other surplus military equipment to local law enforcement agencies. Rep. Hank Johnson, D-Ga., says he plans to introduce legislation when Congress returns in September to curb what he describes as an increasing militarization of police agencies across the country. "Our Main Streets should be a place for business, families and relaxation, not tanks and M16s," Johnson said Thursday. "Militarizing America's Main Streets won't make us any safer, just more fearful and more reticent." Attorney General Eric Holder said he's concerned that use of military equipment by police in Ferguson, Missouri, is sending a "conflicting message." Holder said authorities there have accepted the Justice Department's offer of crowd-control help as it continues to investigate the Saturday shooting death of 18-year-old Michael Brown. The response by law enforcement to protests "must seek to reduce tensions, not heighten them," Holder said.[/quote] [quote]He said he is disturbed by reports that some weapons and other equipment distributed to police agencies have gone missing. He also expressed concern that the trend toward militarizing has moved beyond local police departments and sheriff's offices, [B]saying Ohio State University recently acquired a mine-resistant, ambush-protected vehicle, or MRAP.[/B][/quote] [url]http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/08/15/congressman-wants-to-curb-military-surplus-program.html?ESRC=todayinmil.sm[/url] [img]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/winner.png[/img]

Why does that OSU tank thing keep popping up, its not like everybody else hasn't gotten a riot tank surplus from the government at one time or another... Too bad this won't help with the dangerous amounts of heavy weaponry police already have

Good to hear. I might not live in the States, but it's kinda scary watching police officers in full military gear with military grade weapons and vehicles.

"Military grade" The rifles and vehicles they're getting aren't much different than what they would use otherwise. Call me when they start getting greater offensive capabilities. That's what would be worrying. As for seeing police officers with military weapons? More of a thing in other countries compared to the US I live in chicago. At the airport there are a couple cops with pistols and revolvers. UK Heathrow? SFOs with MP5 SMG. Paris CDG? FAMAS everywhere Vilnius? Police with MP5s escorting the plane on the Tarmac. Shanghai? Shotguns and full tactical gear. Kiev (before the revolution)? AK Carbines everywhere.

Reuse of military assets that would otherwise have gone to waste doesn't really seem like a thing to need to be curbed, but more heavily regulated so that it can't be abused by rural and lower-crime areas. Sure, most police departments aren't going to really see a legitimate use for the capabilities of an MRAP for decades, but what it is - is a big armored truck useful for anything you'd use a big armored truck for. Same with humvees. It's not like they're ordering M1A2s by the dozens.

Exactly. Big armored truck means less cops dying. It's not like it magically makes the police more lethal. They're only hurting themselves if they use it to respond to lesser crimes because the mpg is probably shit.

Why the fuck is the equipment the police has relevant? Police should do it's job, and it should always do it as efficiently, without discrimination, and with as much safety possible. It's not question of WHAT do they get their hands on, it's question of HOW do they use it. You shouldn't try to treat a corrupt dysfunctional police force by hampering it with shitty or insufficient gear. Stop blaming misbehaving police on military gear. MRAPs and military rifles aren't possessed with devil and won't turn good policemen against the people. Rather look into why are there are bigoted racist officers among them, why does their leadership try to cover up and smudge their acts. Look into the efficiency of their gear contracts overall and look for overpriced acquisitions rather than specifically for which gear is army surplus and which isn't.

This is dumb and really inefficient considering the fact that police agencies are authorized to purchase everything that they're being given through this program on their own. So instead they'll just be wasting their budgets on the same exact hand-me-down equipment that the military's giving them and not using their budgets on other more useful programs/expansions.

[QUOTE=Sableye;45706460]Why does that OSU tank thing keep popping up, its not like everybody else hasn't gotten a riot tank surplus from the government at one time or another... Too bad this won't help with the dangerous amounts of heavy weaponry police already have[/QUOTE] What heavy weaponry are you talking about?

Most of the gear from this program is stuff like copiers and printers anyways afaik.

[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;45706462]Good to hear. I might not live in the States, but it's kinda scary watching police officers in full military gear with military grade weapons and vehicles.[/QUOTE] What do you define as military gear and military grade weapons? Police have been equipped with rifles and tactical gear for decades. They also have been using armored vehicles for decades too, they are not driving around in fucking fully functional tanks.

Tbh it was kind of scary seeing footage of this incident in the news, at first I thought they were National Guard soldiers there to impose martial law, but then the news explained that they were police and all I was thinking was wtf, why is it that riot police in the US need to be much more militarised than any other unit elsewhere in the world?

Where do you get these superlatives? They look like any nation's tactical response team. At least they aren't lugging around machine guns like BOPE.

[QUOTE=Antdawg;45706666]Tbh it was kind of scary seeing footage of this incident in the news, at first I thought they were National Guard soldiers there to impose martial law, but then the news explained that they were police and all I was thinking was wtf, why is it that riot police in the US need to be much more militarised than any other unit elsewhere in the world?[/QUOTE] There not, they have the same shit as most first world countrys do. There just armored vehicles.

[QUOTE=trotskygrad;45706702]Where do you get these superlatives? They look like any nation's tactical response team. At least they aren't lugging around machine guns like BOPE.[/QUOTE] Wtf this isn't tactical response, they aren't dealing with terrorists or organised crime. They are dealing with protestors. American response to a protest: [t]http://static.businessinsider.com/image/53ea71eb6da811f52abfd804/image.jpg[/t] Australian response to a protest (Cronulla riots) [t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Cronulla_riots_3_-_police.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=Antdawg;45706720]Wtf this isn't tactical response, they aren't dealing with terrorists or organised crime. They are dealing with protestors. American response to a protest: [t]http://static.businessinsider.com/image/53ea71eb6da811f52abfd804/image.jpg[/t] [/QUOTE] If you honestly think that's how American police forces respond to protests you're delusional. The only time you'll see a police force's SWAT/ESU/whatever team show up to a protest is when they become violent, have a history of becoming violent, or the protest becomes an illegal protest and refuses to return to the designated area or disperse.

[QUOTE=Sand^;45706766]If you honestly think that's how American police forces respond to protests you're delusional. The only time you'll see a police force's SWAT/ESU/whatever team show up to a protest is when they become violent, have a history of becoming violent, or the protest becomes an illegal protest and refuses to return to the designated area or disperse.[/QUOTE] Cronulla became violent too, a horde of dumbfuck white trash going around beating up anyone of Middle Eastern appearance and some of those people returning the favour to the white trash, but the police that responded weren't equipped as if they were about to join a war. Only police in America would ever be equipped as a paramilitary force to respond to a protest.

[QUOTE=Antdawg;45706780]Cronulla became violent too, a horde of dumbfuck white trash going around beating up anyone of Middle Eastern appearance and some of those people returning the favour to the white trash, but the police that responded weren't equipped as if they were about to join a war. Only police in America would ever be equipped as a paramilitary force.[/QUOTE] The picture you showed hardly looks like gear that is carried into war. Only reason they look military is because of the camo. Otherwise they're using standard plate carriers/vests. Standard AR15 rilfes, standard sidearms. Only thing that obviously stands out is gas masks and that is for the use of CS gas. You also need to keep in mind (That photo you posted, im pretty sure it is Ferguson MO). I wouldn't blame them for looking like that after many of the cops have been threatened, stores and being looted, and protests getting violent. Plus its the polices job to maintain control and order, regardless if you support them or not. Of course they're gonna use a level of force that is equal to what they're dealing with. There is nothing wrong with the gear the police have, they need it. It isn't like they roll out 24/7 in armored cars. Yeah there is no doubt that some of the culture in the police departments need to change. But gear and the surplus they get gov't is hardly a part of the problem.

[QUOTE=Antdawg;45706780]Cronulla became violent too, a horde of dumbfuck white trash going around beating up anyone of Middle Eastern appearance and some of those people returning the favour to the white trash, but the police that responded weren't equipped as if they were about to join a war. Only police in America would ever be equipped as a paramilitary force.[/QUOTE] Sure, but remember America has that unique threat of a very good percentage of the population being armed. They show up dressed like that because the vests you see the average cop with cannot stop a rifle-caliber threat, the ones they're wearing can carry SAPI plates and thus can protect from a rifle-caliber threat. Sure the average criminal doesn't use a rifle, in fact it's rare but the chance is still there so they're prepared to meet that threat. Also the M4s probably aren't necessary for the riot, but I'd rather them have them and not need to use them than not have them and need to use them. In the photo you reference the officer pointing his weapon isn't even using an M4 he's using a pepper gun(It's a thing I swear) I believe, which is a safer LTL than a taser and more fitting for riot response.

[QUOTE=Antdawg;45706720]Wtf this isn't tactical response, they aren't dealing with terrorists or organised crime. They are dealing with protestors. American response to a protest: [t]http://static.businessinsider.com/image/53ea71eb6da811f52abfd804/image.jpg[/t] Australian response to a protest (Cronulla riots) [t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Cronulla_riots_3_-_police.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] American response 99% of the time are the usual riot shields like everyone else... Chicago likes horses though. [editline]16th August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Antdawg;45706780]Cronulla became violent too, a horde of dumbfuck white trash going around beating up anyone of Middle Eastern appearance and some of those people returning the favour to the white trash, but the police that responded weren't equipped as if they were about to join a war. Only police in America would ever be equipped as a paramilitary force to respond to a protest.[/QUOTE] White trash usually don't target the police if they're rioting afaik, because police are usually white. Minorities like in this case will.

[QUOTE=Antdawg;45706720]Wtf this isn't tactical response, they aren't dealing with terrorists or organised crime. They are dealing with protestors. American response to a protest: [t]http://static.businessinsider.com/image/53ea71eb6da811f52abfd804/image.jpg[/t] Australian response to a protest (Cronulla riots) [t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Cronulla_riots_3_-_police.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] And what are those guys supposed to do if people start getting violent? They aren't standing in a riot, people are just casually walking around.

i am for this. keep the police force and the military separate.

I guess some people like big guns pointed in their face.

Police have no purpose having such gear like mraps

boy I love cherry picking images those [i]canadians[/i] are so brutal [img]http://usatunofficial.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/12.jpg?w=1000[/img]

[QUOTE=Antdawg;45706720] American response to a protest: [t]http://static.businessinsider.com/image/53ea71eb6da811f52abfd804/image.jpg[/t] ][/QUOTE] "Let's buy woodland camo gear for an urban environment!" It's like the police are just throwing money into whatever without a single care.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45707465]"Let's buy woodland camo gear for an urban environment!" It's like the police are just throwing money into whatever without a single care.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I think this is the bigger issue here, there doesn't seem to be proper oversight of what they're buying.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45707465]"Let's buy woodland camo gear for an urban environment!" It's like the police are just throwing money into whatever without a single care.[/QUOTE] Afaik they get a lot of this stuff for free/really cheap and tactical pants and shirt is better than not having it.

Someone needs to set a hardline for this battlefield.

[QUOTE=trotskygrad;45707537]Afaik they get a lot of this stuff for free/really cheap and tactical pants and shirt is better than not having it.[/QUOTE] Please don't imply that those woodland camo gear is the only thing available to them other than going into a riot in their underwear.