Turkish President wants to restore the Death Penalty - Polidicks

[url]http://www.dw.com/en/erdogan-calls-on-parliament-to-restore-capital-punishment/a-38007389[/url] [QUOTE]Speaking at a World War I memorial rally in the western city of Canakkale on Saturday, [B]the Turkish president said he hoped lawmakers would respond to public "demands" for the revival of the death penalty.[/B] "The families of the martyrs, the heroes (of the failed July 15 coup) don't need to worry.[B] I believe, God willing, that after the April 16 vote parliament will do the necessary concerning your demands for capital punishment[/B]," Erdogan said.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Turks vote in a referendum on April 16 on a constitutional reform that could [B]establish an executive presidency and strengthen Erdogan's powers.[/B] The Turkish government says the changes would boost stability and make governance more efficient. But [B]opponents fear the shift would lead to one-man rule.[/B] [B]Turkey abolished the death penalty in 2004 as part of its decades-long bid to join the European Union.[/B] EU officials have repeatedly warned Ankara that [B]restoring the measure would spell the end of those ambitions.[/B] But Erdogan told the crowd at Saturday's rally he didn't care what Europe thought. [B]"What Hans and George say is not important for me,"[/B] he said, using two common European names. "What the people say, what the law says, that's what is important for us," he added.[/QUOTE] Interestingly, Russia is often described as a "totalitarian state" yet they do not have the death penalty. (I don't know about cases of treason) I myself used to be in favor of the death penalty (and I guess I still could be in theory) because the chance of innocent people being put to death by the state is not something the government should allow for.

Only if you are the first one it's used on ya' cunt.

Erdogan is a good example of a leader who wants to take his country somewhere new... Into the toilet, because he has turned Turkey into a terrorist harboring, corrupt and crime ridden shithole. I remember when news about Turkey was always positive and now this retard is making it shit for everyone. But at least he's doing one good thing, ruining Turkey's chance of EU membership while he's in power. Just imagine all of the bad immigration he would allow through Turkey into the glorious free travel area if they were already in the EU.

Turkish president wants to be a dictator. More at eleven. [editline]19th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Whoaly;51980472] Interestingly, Russia is often described as a "totalitarian state" yet they do not have the death penalty. (I don't know about cases of treason) [/QUOTE] They do have 'unofficial' death penalty.

[QUOTE=Talishmar;51980553]They do have 'unofficial' death penalty.[/QUOTE] No proof of that.

Ataturk be rolling in his grave.

Good. Every nation should allow the death penalty. (With 100% certainty that there will be no future evidence disputing the act the offender did and a heinous act that no jail time will rehabilitate.)

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981654]Good. Every nation should allow the death penalty. (With 100% certainty that there will be no future evidence disputing the act the offender did and a heinous act that no jail time will rehabilitate.)[/QUOTE] Ignoring the fact that it's literally impossible to be absolutely certain of someone's guilt, what purpose does the death penalty serve?

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981654]Good. Every nation should allow the death penalty. (With 100% certainty that there will be no future evidence disputing the act the offender did and a heinous act that no jail time will rehabilitate.)[/QUOTE] Eh, I'm pretty Conservative i guess but the Death Penalty shouldn't be allowed. You can really call yourself a civilized society if you allow it. We have to many other options that are beneficial and cost effective. You can pound your chest and say every nation should have it or allow it. But some countries execute people for lesser crimes. The turkish president only wants the death penalty back so he legally murder his opposition. I think people forget what this man truly is. Then to add that a lot of life sentences are being reversed due to wrongful convictions now that DNA testing is at its prime and new investigations are completed. To me that is just to much risk. The ultimate injustice is to be imprisoned wrongfully, to give a innocent person the death penalty undermines the entire justice system.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51981664]Ignoring the fact that it's literally impossible to be absolutely certain of someone's guilt, what purpose does the death penalty serve?[/QUOTE] idk maybe CCTV cameras clearly showing the person shooting some guy in the face, something along those lines. Why should taxpayers pay to keep a worthless human being around? [QUOTE=MR-X;51981675]Eh, I'm pretty Conservative i guess but the Death Penalty shouldn't be allowed. You can really call yourself a civilized society if you allow it. We have to many other options that are beneficial and cost effective. You can pound your chest and say every nation should have it or allow it. But some countries execute people for lesser crimes. The turkish president only wants the death penalty back so he legally murder his opposition. I think people forget what this man truly is. Then to add that a lot of life sentences are being reversed due to wrongful convictions now that DNA testing is at its prime and new investigations are completed. To me that is just to much risk. The ultimate injustice is to be imprisoned wrongfully, to give a innocent person the death penalty undermines the entire justice system.[/QUOTE] I stated previously that there has to be certainty that they are the ones who did the crime exactly so I wouldn't get replies like this.

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981654] With 100% certainty that there will be no future evidence disputing the act the offender did and a heinous act that no jail time will rehabilitate.[/QUOTE] i'm cool with that, since under those terms we can never actually execute anyone ever

[QUOTE=Camdude90;51981696]i'm cool with that, since under those terms we can never actually execute anyone ever[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]idk maybe CCTV cameras clearly showing the person shooting some guy in the face, something along those lines.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981694]idk maybe CCTV cameras clearly showing the person shooting some guy in the face, something along those lines. Why should taxpayers pay to keep a worthless human being around?[/QUOTE] Footage can be doctored. Eyewitnesses can be unreliable. Physical evidence can be planted. There is no way to ensure with absolute certainty that someone is guilty. Your question is misleading. First, when a death sentence is handed out, the prisoner often goes through years to decades of appeals to ensure that no miscarriage of justice is being meted out (this is related to my earlier point). During this time they must be kept in prison, which bleeds away this precious taxpayer money of yours anyway. You either speed this up drastically, with a corresponding increase in the false execution rate, or you accept that the death penalty is going to be expensive. Secondly, you aren't paying to "keep someone around". You're paying to support a criminal justice system whose purpose is to keep society safe from criminals. A prison system should aim to rehabilitate and reintroduce to society convicts who are amenable to such treatment, or keep them away from society for those who aren't. The death penalty serves no useful purpose in this system outside of petty revenge. Killing someone is an action that must be taken, on top of the imprisonment you're already subjecting them to. The onus is on you to justify it.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51981724]Footage can be doctored. Eyewitnesses can be unreliable. Physical evidence can be planted. There is no way to ensure with absolute certainty that someone is guilty. Your question is misleading. First, when a death sentence is handed out, the prisoner often goes through years to decades of appeals to ensure that no miscarriage of justice is being meted out (this is related to my earlier point). During this time they must be kept in prison, which bleeds away this precious taxpayer money of yours anyway. You either speed this up drastically, with a corresponding increase in the false execution rate, or you accept that the death penalty is going to be expensive. Secondly, you aren't paying to "keep someone around". You're paying to support a criminal justice system whose purpose is to keep society safe from criminals. A prison system should aim to rehabilitate and reintroduce to society convicts who are amenable to such treatment, or keep them away from society for those who aren't. The death penalty serves no useful purpose in this system outside of petty revenge.[/QUOTE] Shit if you're really going to push it that far then let's just go with 99% then, eh? ;) I disagree, partially. I agree they should deserve appeals, I agree they should be kept and I agree people that can be rehabilitated should. People that cannot though, don't deserve to waste our money keeping them locked up. Locking them up and throwing away the key doesn't mean they don't still have to be fed. Just end it already. I bet private prisons love the fact you don't want them to be put on death row.

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981654]Good. Every nation should allow the death penalty. (With 100% certainty that there will be no future evidence disputing the act the offender did and a heinous act that no jail time will rehabilitate.)[/QUOTE] Oh so now we're not just sending every single whistleblower to jail but also killing them in the process, gotcha Stalin. Really wish I knew how to un-star people, I missed the reply button with my first click. [QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981694]idk maybe CCTV cameras clearly showing the person shooting some guy in the face, something along those lines.[/QUOTE] Never thought I would recommend someone to watch Prison break but here you go.

[QUOTE=Scarabix;51981738]Oh so now we're not just sending every single whistleblower to jail but also killing them in the process, gotcha Stalin. Really wish I knew how to un-star people, I missed the reply button with my first click.[/QUOTE] If it leads to people getting killed because of their dumbass ~feels~, then yeah why not? I don't know how approving the death penalty equates me to Stalin though

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981730]Shit if you're really going to push it that far then let's just go with 99% then, eh? ;) I disagree, partially. I agree they should deserve appeals, I agree they should be kept and I agree people that can be rehabilitated should. People that cannot though, don't deserve to waste our money keeping them locked up. Locking them up and throwing away the key doesn't mean they don't still have to be fed. Just end it already. I bet private prisons love the fact you don't want them to be put on death row.[/QUOTE] There is [I][B]no[/B][/I] acceptable number when it comes to false executions. You [I]cannot[/I] undo a death sentence, you [I]cannot[/I] bring a wrongfully executed person back to life, you [I]cannot[/I] make it up to them in any way. You still haven't justified why we should [I]take[/I] the action of killing them. An economic argument is not acceptable as I've already pointed out, since executions and the associated appeals process are expensive and most studies find that it costs far more to kill a prisoner than to keep them locked up for life.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51981750]There is [I][B]no[/B][/I] acceptable number when it comes to false executions. You [I]cannot[/I] undo a death sentence, you [I]cannot[/I] bring a wrongfully executed person back to life, you [I]cannot[/I] make it up to them in any way. You still haven't justified why we should [I]take[/I] the action of killing them. An economic argument is not acceptable as I've already pointed out, since executions and the associated appeals process are expensive and most studies find that it costs far more to kill a prisoner than to keep them locked up for life.[/QUOTE] Are they accounting for the "peaceful" way of lethal injection, or a bullet to the head in those studies?

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981765]Are they accounting for the "peaceful" way of lethal injection, or a bullet to the head in those studies?[/QUOTE] No, they're accounting for the decades of appeals and trials that are necessary to avoid killing the wrong person (which happens anyway because surprise surprise, humans aren't infallible).

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51981768]No, they're accounting for the decades of appeals and trials that are necessary to avoid killing the wrong person (which happens anyway because surprise surprise, humans aren't infallible).[/QUOTE] There shouldn't be decades of appeals. They should get 2 max in a span of 5 years.

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981776]There shouldn't be decades of appeals. They should get 2 max in a span of 5 years.[/QUOTE] Why, so you can kill more innocent people just so you can feel better about your precious tax money not being wasted on "worthless human beings"?

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981776]There shouldn't be decades of appeals. They should get 2 max in a span of 5 years.[/QUOTE] You do realize you're backpedaling from your "100%" as it's getting in the way of shooting people in the head?

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51981778]Why, so you can kill more innocent people just so you can feel better about your precious tax money not being wasted on "worthless human beings"?[/QUOTE] I mean if they get 2 appeals in 5 5 years and they're still found guilty, as far as I'm concerned ye they're guilty. Alright let's go with your train of thought then. No death penalty? How about a guy like Jeffrey Dahmer? Can he be rehabilitated? How about just locking him up for life? No dude, death penatly. It's pretty obvious. [editline]19th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Vlevs;51981814]You do realize you're backpedaling from your "100%" as it's getting in the way of shooting people in the head?[/QUOTE] As far as I'm concerned, eye witnesses and a CCTV would be 100% but that's not good enough for you guys is it? So yes, call it backpedaling if you will, I'm still calling it 100% by my standards, but fitting it into 99% for your precious paranoid minds.

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981816]I mean if they get 2 appeals in 5 5 years and they're still found guilty, as far as I'm concerned ye they're guilty. Alright let's go with your train of thought then. No death penalty? How about a guy like Jeffrey Dahmer? Can he be rehabilitated? How about just locking him up for life? No dude, death penatly. It's pretty obvious.[/QUOTE] Are you a judge? Do you have decades of experience in a court of law? Do you know what due process means? If you answered no to any of the above questions then shut up and stop talking about something you have no idea about. [editline]19th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981816]As far as I'm concerned, eye witnesses and a CCTV would be 100% but that's not good enough for you guys is it? So yes, call it backpedaling if you will, I'm still calling it 100% by my standards, but fitting it into 99% for your precious paranoid minds.[/QUOTE] Your standards for what constitute "100%" are worryingly low.

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981816]As far as I'm concerned, eye witnesses and a CCTV would be 100% but that's not good enough for you guys is it? So yes, call it backpedaling if you will, I'm still calling it 100% by my standards, but fitting it into 99% for your precious paranoid minds.[/QUOTE] I'm glad you brought your criteria up. Eye witnesses are damn unreliable, both intentionally and unintentionally. Handing death penalties by eye witness accounts alone is literally mob justice and has no place in a civilized society.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51981818]Are you a judge? Do you have decades of experience in a court of law? Do you know what due process means? If you answered no to any of the above questions then shut up and stop talking about something you have no idea about. [editline]19th March 2017[/editline] Your standards for what constitute "100%" are worryingly low.[/QUOTE] No. No. Yes - Due process is "fair treatment." I'd like to think giving them two more chances to appeal their death is pretty fair to me. Look all I'm saying is these worthless humans are people that meet the above tier of crimes. They can't be rehabilitated. What's the point in keeping them around then? [QUOTE=Vlevs;51981832]I'm glad you brought your criteria up. Eye witnesses are damn unreliable, both intentionally and unintentionally. Handing death penalties by eye witness accounts alone is literally mob justice and has no place in a civilized society.[/QUOTE] I was meaning CCTV + eye witness but I can see where you'd get that I meant individually from.

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981844]No. No. Yes - Due process is "fair treatment." I'd like to think giving them two more chances to appeal their death is pretty fair to me. Look all I'm saying is these worthless humans are people that meet the above tier of crimes. They can't be rehabilitated. What's the point in keeping them around then?[/QUOTE] Sorry but if you aren't a judge or even a lawyer I'm not going to listen to your theories on what constitutes due process, especially not in the context of the death penalty. Keeping them around serves the purpose of not accidentally killing some innocent person we thought was [I]totally[/I] a serial killer.

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981654]Good. [B]Every nation should allow the death penalty.[/B] (With 100% certainty that there will be no future evidence disputing the act the offender did and a heinous act that no jail time will rehabilitate.)[/QUOTE]Fuck no, keep that shit to yourselves. With a life sentence you can at least let them free if it was found they were wrongfully convicted. What do you do to fix killing the wrong person? Throw some money at the victim's family? No system is infallible, and with the current government in Turkey it's almost guaranteed this shit's going to be abused to hell and back. There's enough documented cases of wrongful executions in the US even with the lengthy appeal process.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51981850]Sorry but if you aren't a judge or even a lawyer I'm not going to listen to your theories on what constitutes due process, especially not in the context of the death penalty. Keeping them around serves the purpose of not accidentally killing some innocent person we thought was [I]totally[/I] a serial killer.[/QUOTE] I dunno how one can fuck up identifying a serial killer, but as soon as that happens I'll take your thought process into account. [editline]19th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Sgt Doom;51981851]Fuck no, keep that shit to yourselves. With a life sentence you can at least let them free if it was found they were wrongfully convicted. What do you do to fix killing the wrong person? Throw some money at the victim's family? No system is infallible, and with the current government in Turkey it's almost guaranteed this shit's going to be abused to hell and back. There's enough documented cases of wrongful executions in the US even with the lengthy appeal process.[/QUOTE] Agree, but I'm not talking about killing people for petty shit that is a more or less "well we found your DNA at the scene", I'm talking about real, fucked up individuals.

[QUOTE=Derek_SM;51981859]I dunno how one can fuck up identifying a serial killer, but as soon as that happens I'll take your thought process into account.[/QUOTE] There's a [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wrongful_convictions_in_the_United_States"]very long list[/url] of wrongful convictions in the United States on Wikipedia. Imagine if all of them had ended in an execution.