ACCC begins lawsuit against Valve over Steam refund policies - Polidicks

No news source as yet, just the press release by the ACCC. [QUOTE]The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has instituted proceedings in the Federal Court of Australia against Valve Corporation (Valve) alleging that Valve made false or misleading representations regarding the application of the consumer guarantees under the Australian Consumer Law (ACL). “The Australian Consumer Law applies to any business providing goods or services within Australia. Valve may be an American based company with no physical presence in Australia, but it is carrying on business in Australia by selling to Australian consumers, who are protected by the Australian Consumer Law,” ACCC Chairman Rod Sims said. “It is a breach of the Australian Consumer Law for businesses to state that they do not give refunds under any circumstances, including for gifts and during sales. Under the Australian Consumer Law, consumers can insist on a refund or replacement at their option if a product has a major fault.” The matter has been filed in the Federal Court’s Sydney Registry. A date for the first directions hearing is set for 7 October 2014 at the Federal Court in Sydney before Justice Jagot.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]“We are making every effort to cooperate with the Australian officials on this matter, while continuing to provide Steam services to our customers across the world, including Australian gamers.”[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.accc.gov.au/media-release...epresentations[/url] [url]http://www.kotaku.com.au/2014/08/the-accc-is-suing-valve/[/url] [url]http://www.kotaku.com.au/2014/08/valve-responds-to-being-sued-by-the-accc/[/url] Edited to add Kotaku links and Valve response.

They make a good point, but I'm sure this isn't the only nation where this issue persist. Interested to see what happens.

It'll be interesting to see how this turns out. If the ACCC wins this could be huge for steam users from all regions.

I'd actually love for this to happen. It's incredibly hard, if not impossible to get a refund for a game bought off Steam.

[QUOTE=benzinxrm;45830094]It'll be interesting to see how this turns out. If the ACCC wins this could be huge for steam users from all regions.[/QUOTE] If it follows previous rulings, then it'd really only affect Australia only. There's no way they'd just start offering refunds in other countries if they don't have to.

And how does the ACCC expect any judgement in their favour to be enforced? Valve has no presence in Australia.

i want a refund for chaos theory

[QUOTE=benzinxrm;45830094]It'll be interesting to see how this turns out. If the ACCC wins this could be huge for steam users from all regions.[/QUOTE] As far as I've heard you can get refunds in the UK if you contact customer services and spout a few European and UK laws. You get your money back for that single game but they'll ban your entire account in the process.

[QUOTE=1Eevee1;45830047]No news source as yet, just the press release by the ACCC.[/QUOTE] There is now, so use this source OP. [URL="http://www.kotaku.com.au/2014/08/the-accc-is-suing-valve/"]http://www.kotaku.com.au/2014/08/the-accc-is-suing-valve/[/URL]

[QUOTE=varg666;45830178]There is now, so use this source OP. [URL="http://www.kotaku.com.au/2014/08/the-accc-is-suing-valve/"]http://www.kotaku.com.au/2014/08/the-accc-is-suing-valve/[/URL][/QUOTE] Right, I'll add that and Valve's response right now.

I love the ACCC, they're the defensive big brother of consumers, there to help you if others want to pick on you. Optus was being mean to me, so the ombudsman settled it, and I got an iPhone 3s for free, because of the contract discrepancy.

And then Valve makes Steam unavaliable in Australia

I really hope this pushes through because if Australian users get it, we're going to want it to. As long as the game has been played for under an hour, you should be able to get your money back for that title once.

Isn't Valve mostly composed of Australians IIRC?

I bet a lot will be based about "major fault" with a product. How can a game have a major fault? Except for a few I can think of, all games run and can be played, right? I know a few have had false advertisement too. Really my question is why people are returning their games, I guess. I haven't heard that much about false advertising or totally broken games.

[QUOTE=-Iker-;45830223]And then Valve makes Steam unavaliable in Australia[/QUOTE] it's ok, i'm sure we'll get a great foxtel-esque service in it's place

[QUOTE=munky91;45830259]I bet a lot will be based about "major fault" with a product. How can a game have a major fault? Except for a few I can think of, all games run and can be played, right? I know a few have had false advertisement too. Really my question is why people are returning their games, I guess. I haven't heard that much about false advertising or totally broken games.[/QUOTE] The only reason new game returns aren't accepted at retailers is because it decreases the value of the product since it's now used. There's no such excuse to be made with digital. Valve needs to start allowing simultaneous users sharing different games on the same account and they need to have a better return policy. They've fallen behind in both of these aspects, Sony has a better family sharing feature and EA (Origin) has a better refund policy.

[QUOTE=munky91;45830259] How can a game have a major fault? [/QUOTE] The War Z

[QUOTE=Brandy92;45830312]The War Z[/QUOTE] Plane Control as well.

[QUOTE=Korova;45830305]The only reason new game returns aren't accepted at retailers is because it decreases the value of the product since it's now used. There's no such excuse to be made with digital. Valve needs to start allowing simultaneous users sharing different games on the same account and they need to have a better return policy. They've fallen behind in both of these aspects, Sony has a better family sharing feature and EA (Origin) has a better refund policy.[/QUOTE] But then couldn't we all get a new game, play it for a week, and sell it back?

No matter how big or untouchable valve thinks they are, they should be held accountable to laws and standards of the countries they're operating in. Even if they only make changes for Australian customers, that's fine.

There should be refunds on games that were bought and played for less than an hour.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;45830142]And how does the ACCC expect any judgement in their favour to be enforced? Valve has no presence in Australia.[/QUOTE] Any business that does business with Australians either online or in the Country is subject to ACCC laws, just like if you were doing business to Europeans you need to comply by their regulations

[QUOTE=Cows Rule;45830346]There should be refunds on games that were bought and played for less than an hour.[/QUOTE] And games that did not release with promised features.

[QUOTE=Cows Rule;45830346]There should be refunds on games that were bought and played for less than an hour.[/QUOTE] there has to be a timeframe though. i'm a fucking moron who buys games and doesn't play them all the time, it wouldn't be fair if i could just be like "yeah refund 2/3 of my steam library".

[QUOTE=Cows Rule;45830346]There should be refunds on games that were bought and played for less than an hour.[/QUOTE] I reckon for games purchased within 2 weeks, one hour could be a pretty shitty time limit if you were playing the game trying to get it working and then you wanted your money back but you couldn't because you went passed the limit [editline]29th August 2014[/editline] or a bigger time limit, I don't know

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;45830380]Any business that does business with Australians either online or in the Country is subject to ACCC laws, just like if you were doing business to Europeans you need to comply by their regulations[/QUOTE] I don't know how successful the ACCC will be, considering Valve is not actually operating within Australia. They offer games in local currency, but they are not operating [I]here[/I]. Similar to how [URL="http://www.kogan.com/au/?gclid=CJGXxs-jt8ACFQcAvAodbLoAOg&utm_expid=59729982-0.7hrlviZsTcS3wtXBFAPXAQ.0&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com.au%2Faclk%3Fsa%3Dl%26ai%3DCXg3LddH_U_qtHI_RuATOkYL4BpHV1boEoevHs6cBg4H5HwgAEAFQ-MmlwAJgpYCAgJgBoAGfvozaA8gBAakCkvZsQeJjrz6qBCJP0O1ROW_OE8eMUEczlFsHvfvxGrSYOwcIAL49WdJ_K3VMgAfJwfMlkAcBqAemvhs%26sig%3DAOD64_2Ek1EkrbwVCfWjWrU1yXBCpkQtvQ%26rct%3Dj%26q%3D%26ved%3D0CB8Q0Qw%26adurl%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.kogan.com%2Fau%2F"]Kogan [/URL]operates from Hong Kong, they are not set up in Australia precisely because of this.

Glad to hear it. For all that Steam does right, they've fallen embarrassingly far behind in customer service.

I want refunds for all the games I have that I've never played and never intend to play, thanks.

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;45830380]Any business that does business with Australians either online or in the Country is subject to ACCC laws, just like if you were doing business to Europeans you need to comply by their regulations[/QUOTE] You've missed the point. The Parliament can pass a law saying that all people in Uganda must jump on the 30th August at 3pm, but how would they expect to enforce that law? Valve has no physical presence in Australia, and even the ACCC has stated this. Any ruling made by the Federal Court of Australia has no effect until it is enforced. How would the Federal Court of Australia enforce their judgement on a company located in Washington State in the United States?