Pakistan: India attack kills 12, 10 troops die on both sides - Polidicks

[QUOTE]MUZAFFARABAD, Pakistan (AP) — Artillery fire and shelling from India targeted several Pakistani villages and struck a passenger bus near the dividing line in the disputed region of Kashmir on Wednesday, killing 12 civilians wounding more than a dozen others, the Pakistani military and officials said. Hours later, Pakistan's military said three soldiers, including an army captain, were killed while responding to the Indian attack. It said seven Indian soldiers were also "killed in retaliatory fire" but there was no confirmation on the casualties from India. The deadly violence marks the latest escalation in the Himalayan region of Kashmir, which is divided between the two nuclear-armed neighbors and claimed by both in its entirety. According to Deputy Commissioner Waheed Khan, an artillery shell hit a passenger bus in the scenic Neelum Valley in the Pakistani part of Kashmir, killing 10 people — three died on the scene and seven later, at a hospital. Another two civilians died when a mortar shell hit their house in the Nakyal sector in Kotli district, said police official Waseem Khan. The shelling sent residents fleeing in panic, he said. At least 15 people were also wounded in the bus strike and elsewhere in Wednesday's attacks. Pakistani Foreign Affairs Adviser Sartaj Aziz said the country's Cabinet expressed grave concern over the latest escalation. Sardar Masood Khan, the president of the Pakistani-governed part of Kashmir, denounced "India's aggression" in a statement and appealed to the international community to take notice of India's cease-fire violations in Kashmir. He also urged the United Nations Military Observer Group for India and Pakistan, or UNMOGIP, to "investigate these incidents and assign responsibility for these violations of ceasefire." Earlier, an army statement said Pakistani troops were firing back on Indian military positions. The statement also said that an ambulance, which had rushed the scene of the attack, was fired upon by India. Pakistani security officials said Wednesday's fire forced Pakistani villagers with their families to take to field bunkers, built years ago for such attacks. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the attacks with reporters.[/QUOTE] [url]https://apnews.com/842ae01904f348d4b4c2c80750447e63[/url]

Ohh fuck, if this escalates its going to get really ugly. Let's hope it doesn't do that.

Any Pakistan-India War has a fairly easy chance of going nuclear. Oh god, please don't let this escalate.

This wasn't what I had in my mind when I said I hope this year rnds with a bang

It's shocking that in this day and age Pakistan and India can't broker a peaceful negotiation over Kashmir. I suppose they're more fighting for total control of the region, but even if one of them manages to wrest it for themselves it's still going to be an ugly mark on the map to a lot of people for a lot of reasons.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;51416286]Any Pakistan-India War has a fairly easy chance of going nuclear. Oh god, please don't let this escalate.[/QUOTE] Modi isn't that idiotic, and there's very little chance of that occurring.

so if they were to nuke each other out would there be any international escalation

[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;51416299]It's shocking that in this day and age Pakistan and India can't broker a peaceful negotiation over Kashmir. I suppose they're more fighting for total control of the region, but even if one of them manages to wrest it for themselves it's still going to be an ugly mark on the map to a lot of people for a lot of reasons.[/QUOTE] The way they see it, why comprise when you can slowly annex the territory over time.

[QUOTE=Saturn V;51416478]so if they were to nuke each other out would there be any international escalation[/QUOTE] Yes. Yes there would. In what reality would there not be an international escalation if warring parties used nuclear devices against each other.

im just wondering if they could cause enough momentum for a global nukefest

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;51416286]Any Pakistan-India War has a fairly easy chance of going nuclear. Oh god, please don't let this escalate.[/QUOTE] we don't want that and I assume the side doesn't want that either hopefully hopefully [QUOTE=Saturn V;51416478]so if they were to nuke each other out would there be any international escalation[/QUOTE] yes

[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;51416512]I don't see why anybody else would be dumb enough to start throwing more of them around if some get detonated because of India and Pakistan[/QUOTE] yeah thats what i thought

Nukes are scary, but they're not just thrown around willy-nilly. If war was to happen between India and Pakistan I sincerely doubt either would use nukes due to the amount of problems it would cause for pretty much no gain. A nuke is not an instant win for the country that fires it or total devastation for the country that gets hit by it. Even if a nuclear exchange was to happen, no country would want to start firing because of them.

it's just a piece of land though [highlight](User was banned for this post ("More threadshitting - next ban's a month." - Bradyns))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Saturn V;51416541]it's just a piece of land though[/QUOTE] the original conflict began because when the british decided to split the nations they gave states the choice to join Pakistan or India. The problem was that Kashmir had an overall larger muslim population but the hindu rulers at the time did not make the choice. Causing dispute as to who it belongs to. Some of that is valid now but personally I feel like it'd be up to the people of Kashmir. So there is more than just a fight over land here.

thanks a lot british empire man it sucked

[QUOTE=Bradyns;51416492]Yes. Yes there would. In what reality would there not be an international escalation if warring parties used nuclear devices against each other.[/QUOTE] And what sane US or European or Russian president is going to fire nukes because Pakistan and India decided to unincorporate a city or two? It makes fuck all sense for anyone else to launch something because a couple second world hellholes shot nukes at each other.

[QUOTE=TestECull;51416641]And what sane US or European or Russian president is going to fire nukes because Pakistan and India decided to unincorporate a city or two? It makes fuck all sense for anyone else to launch something because a couple second world hellholes shot nukes at each other.[/QUOTE] International escalation doesn't necessarily imply an international nuclear escalation, just that such a drastic and devastating conflict would invoke international parties to intervene.

oh god please don't escalate if it does, shit Two middle powers with nukes, having a war right next to a superpower.

But I don't want war. :( If war is an inevitability, may it be as short as the Kargil War.

Two questions: 1) Was there any proximate cause for India's attack? It seems insane for them to just randomly shell a foreign village - even if they consider it to be "their" territory, why would they shell it? Was there a recent border incident? Were they doing war games and they messed up? Did Pakistan do anything recently to antagonize them? 2) Do either India or Pakistan have military alliances that might get drawn in to any fight? I'm not familiar with the political situation in that region.

Everybody knows that nuclear detonation would cause global destabilization and most likely mobilization of the leading nations. Given that this is a well known affect, more or less, the real scary prospect is that there is someone out there who might want to intentionally cause this. From my knowledge this is much more likely a scenario than India and Pakistan throwing big bombs at eachother over Kashmir.

From what I'm reading, [url=http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/pakistan-india-dgmo-surgical-strikes-loc-beheading-civillian-deaths/1/818240.html]the Pakistani DGMO is contacting a similar organization in India on an emergency line[/url], and demanding answers and possible solutions to what has happened.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;51416286]Any Pakistan-India War has a fairly easy chance of going nuclear. Oh god, please don't let this escalate.[/QUOTE] Why would either nuke the land they want. Also they are so close that a stiff breeze can blow all the radiation back to their homeland.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;51416820]Why would either nuke the land they want. Also they are so close that a stiff breeze can blow all the radiation back to their homeland.[/QUOTE] India's known nuclear weapons are relatively small, with the highest claimed yield being 200 kilotons, and their largest detonation being only 45kt. Such radiation would dissipate to survivable levels within weeks, and scattered fallout would be relatively minor. Pakistan's weapons are believed to be on a similar scale, probably smaller but with more warheads. Nuclear weapons don't completely destroy land, or even make it permanently uninhabitable. Nagasaki and Hiroshima are now fully-populated cities, and India's and Pakistan's bombs aren't much more powerful than those were. Some are even smaller, because they both have a focus on tactical weapons - for bombing enemy divisions, not enemy cities. There would be health risks from fallout - I particularly wouldn't want to be a soldier moved in to occupy nuked territory while it's still hot. But as a civilian near this potential conflict zone, I'd be more worried about conventional attacks than about windborne fallout. Your concerns are not groundless, though. There are places where the fallout of a nuclear war would be a real concern, but mainly for an American or Russian attack. I live close enough to DC to be in the fallout danger range if the wind is right, and Russia's going to be nuking that city until it glows, if shit goes down. But neither India nor Pakistan have weapons on that magnitude, and even firing their entire arsenal at a single point wouldn't reach that level of radiation.