• Nearly Half Of U.S. States Are Now Fighting To Discriminate Against Transgender Students
    74 replies, posted
[QUOTE]Nearly half the states in the country are now fighting to make sure that transgender students can be discriminated against in schools. On Friday, ten states filed a federal lawsuit in Nebraska challenging the federal government’s recent guidance about the protections transgender students deserve under the law. The lawsuit joins a separate suit that Texas — along with about a dozen states or their governors — filed in May. [...] In other words, the suit assumes Title IX’s enforcement should be permanently attached to a 1972 understanding of sex. The fact that trans people have failed to obtain protection under the law in the past — along with the fact that some lawmakers have tried to pass clarifying language correcting that — is somehow proof that they never should receive such protection. [...] The suit constantly reasserts that individuals deserve access to restrooms or locker rooms based on their “biological sex,” insinuating that the guidance upends that possibility. “There are no limits whatsoever on how or why an individual so identifies,” it warns, suggesting that anybody can get access to any facility by just changing their gender identity on a whim.[/QUOTE] [url]http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2016/07/08/3796820/nebraska-transgender-student-suit/[/url] this is fucking bullshit
oh yeah you can totally just change your gender identity on a whim fuck these people they know literally nothing about being trans
[QUOTE=Saturn V;50695725]oh yeah you can totally just change your gender identity on a whim fuck these people they know literally nothing about being trans[/QUOTE] The article goes a bit more in-depth than just the OP's quote; [quote]When the Department of Justice filed its suit challenging North Carolina’s anti-transgender law HB2, it laid out this understanding. [B]An individual’s sex “consists of multiple factors,” the Department wrote, including “hormones, external genitalia, internal reproductive organs, chromosomes, and gender identity, which is an individual’s internal sense of being male or female.” When those factors are not in alignment, “the person’s gender identity is the primary factor in terms of establish that person’s sex.”[/B][/quote] The "Changing gender identity on a whim", this part; [quote] “There are no limits whatsoever on how or why an individual so identifies,” it warns, suggesting that anybody can get access to any facility by just changing their gender identity on a whim.[/quote] refers to the individual's internal sense of being male or female (see 1st quote). It's all very much a grey zone. As far as I can tell, the article is (simplified) about wanting to walk into a female bathroom while you [I]identify[/I] as a female, but are still in every other sense of biological sex very much a man. That's kinda wonky, to be fair!
NPR interviewed the Nebraskan attorney general yesterday, he stated that he pretty much could not care less about transgenders going into whatever bathroom they please. The reason he and his state are pursuing a lawsuit is because 1) The executive branch is unilaterally changing the definition of the law without legislative approval (whether you like it or not, the word "sex" in the original law was clear defined as biological) 2) The executive branch is enforcing its will by extortion, threatening to withdraw needed funds to education centers unless they do as they say, which sets a pretty bad precedent.
People can have their own opinions on whether trans stuff is bad/weird/dumb, but that should only be their opinion, not how they actually act.
[QUOTE=Elexar;50695775]That's kinda wonky, to be fair![/QUOTE] This has been covered a billion times on facepunch but I'll just summarize it. A person who identifies as female but is born a male isn't suddenly legally allowed to creep or assault someone in the bathroom and will be arrested for doing that. A male can enter a female facility and rape/assault someone without changing their gender identity, they will still get arrested either way. I've made this argument before but I'll make it again, if we aren't concerned with lesbians and bisexual individuals sexualizing bathrooms or making them unsafe in any way, then we shouldn't be concerned with transgenders. I'll state again, if you enter a bathroom with the intention of harming individuals or staring/recording them, you will be arrested regardless of your sexual orientation or gender. I feel like it's less of a grey zone and more of a gradual shift towards unisex bathrooms.
[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50695784]People can have their own opinions on whether trans stuff is bad/weird/dumb, but that should only be their opinion, not how they actually act.[/QUOTE] If only we lived in a world where people acted completely separate from their opinion :v:
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50695778]2) The executive branch is enforcing its will by extortion, threatening to withdraw needed funds to education centers unless they do as they say, which sets a pretty bad precedent.[/QUOTE] This has happened before. It already [b][i]is[/i][/b] precedent and it already [b][i]has been[/i][/b] successful three times. Any lawyer involved in politics would know about the highway trust fund, I doubt it would be different through education. Time to get with the fucking program, Peterson.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50695803]If only we lived in a world where people acted completely separate from their opinion :v:[/QUOTE] Not everyone who thinks "This whole 'transgender' thing is weird" will run up to a trans person and say "Fuck you, you're a weirdo! Go die in a corner and never come back! Oh, and by the way, you're a MALE!"
[QUOTE=Snowmew;50695807]This has happened before. It already [b][i]is[/i][/b] precedent and it already [b][i]has been[/i][/b] successful three times. Any lawyer involved in politics would know about the highway trust fund, I doubt it would be different through education. Time to get with the fucking program, Peterson.[/QUOTE] Okay, so? But do you really think that's the right way for the government to act? Do you think extortion like this is okay because it's already been done before?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50695816]Okay, so? But do you really think that's the right way for the government to act? Do you think extortion like this is okay because it's already been done before?[/QUOTE] It's not okay, no matter what, whether it's done fighting against discrimination or not.
[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50695812]you're a MALE![/QUOTE] you know ftm is a thing
[QUOTE=Saturn V;50695886]you know ftm is a thing[/QUOTE] Pretty sure they do, it was just an example after all
I personally don't see the issue with pre-op transgender people having to legally use bathrooms based off of sex, not gender- whereas post-op should have the right to access the bathrooms their new sex allows them in short; why base bathrooms off of gender and not sex?
[QUOTE=ZombieWaffle;50696039]I personally don't see the issue with pre-op transgender people having to legally use bathrooms based off of sex, not gender- whereas post-op should have the right to access the bathrooms their new sex allows them in short; why base bathrooms off of gender and not sex?[/QUOTE] What the fuck. [editline]12th July 2016[/editline] Do you realize how mentally uncomfortable it is for them?
[QUOTE=TheDrunkenOne;50696056]What the fuck. [editline]12th July 2016[/editline] Do you realize how mentally uncomfortable it is for them?[/QUOTE] I should preface this by stating that I am entirely pro-transgender people, because you seem like the kind of person who will freak out and scream bigot at me. I have known some legitimately incredibly broken creepy obsessive stalkery people who claim to be transgender but make no effort to transition or pass. Were I a woman I would not want to share a gendered restroom with those creeps. There must be an answer to this question that doesn't give people like that a blank check. I don't think 'use whatever bathroom you feel like' is the right answer. If you were born male or have transitioned to male, use the male restroom. If you were born female or have transitioned to female, use the female restroom.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50696129]I should preface this by stating that I am entirely pro-transgender people, because you seem like the kind of person who will freak out and scream bigot at me. I have known some legitimately incredibly broken creepy obsessive stalkery people who claim to be transgender but make no effort to transition or pass. Were I a woman I would not want to share a gendered restroom with those creeps. There must be an answer to this question that doesn't give people like that a blank check. I don't think 'use whatever bathroom you feel like' is the right answer.[/QUOTE] I'm attracted to men, which bathroom should I use?
[QUOTE=Noss;50696134]I'm attracted to men, which bathroom should I use?[/QUOTE] If you have a dick or an approximation of a dick then use the bathroom designed for dicks. It's a hairy subject with no easy answer to be sure. Every solution currently on the table has holes.
[QUOTE=Noss;50696134]I'm attracted to men, which bathroom should I use?[/QUOTE] I'm not sure why this argument is always used. No one is going to know if you are attracted to the same sex but they will know if you are the opposite gender.
[QUOTE=TheDrunkenOne;50696056]What the fuck. [editline]12th July 2016[/editline] Do you realize how mentally uncomfortable it is for them?[/QUOTE] If this is the argument, what about how uncomfortable people might feel when a man in a dress walks into the women's room? If we're going by how uncomfortable things like this make people, then the status quo is probably the best we have.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50696129] If you were born male or have transitioned to male, use the male restroom. If you were born female or have transitioned to female, use the female restroom.[/QUOTE] Then what about the people who pass as the other sex but have not had operations. What's your choice for them, hm?
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50696154]Then what about the people who pass as the other sex but have not had operations. What's your choice for them, hm?[/QUOTE] People who pass should be able to use whatever bathroom they want. Its not like anyone is going to be watching them do their business.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50696154]Then what about the people who pass as the other sex but have not had operations. What's your choice for them, hm?[/QUOTE] Well, principally they'd have to use the bathroom appropriate for their giblets, but then if they pass who would ever know? And that's fine with me. That's part of why this is such a prickly issue. As a conservative Texan I can't really come up with a good answer.
people are inherently more comfortable being in a bathroom with people of their own sex I feel a transgender should be able to use the bathroom of the gender they transitioned to. I shouldn't be able to just claim I identify as female and go into the womans bathroom and pee with them while someone changes clothes, etc. Just my opinion anyway
[QUOTE=Saturn V;50695886]you know ftm is a thing[/QUOTE] I'm using what I said as an example, I know ftm exists [editline]12th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=ZombieWaffle;50696039]I personally don't see the issue with pre-op transgender people having to legally use bathrooms based off of sex, not gender- whereas post-op should have the right to access the bathrooms their new sex allows them[/QUOTE] Couldn't agree more.
Heres an idea for the sane people. Stop supporting gender segregation... even if its a bathroom. Do the bathrooms at your domiciles also come gender coloured? Just have 1 large bathroom with tiny stalls for privacy, like most of the western world is moving towards.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;50696198]Heres an idea for the sane people. Stop supporting gender segregation... even if its a bathroom. Do the bathrooms at your domiciles also come gender coloured? Just have 1 large bathroom with tiny stalls for privacy, like most of the western world is moving towards.[/QUOTE] its not segregation when people have different genitals. It also helps avoid overcrowded bathrooms.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;50696203]its not segregation when people have different genitals.[/QUOTE] Do you even know what segregation means?
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;50696198] Just have 1 large bathroom with tiny stalls for privacy, like most of the western world is moving towards.[/QUOTE] But that makes sense. Here in America, we have to go out of our way to ensure that minorities have tough lives, get with the memo!
I just don't get the controversy. There's nothing stopping a man from walking into a woman's bathroom and raping a woman or girl. They're not going to stalk a woman, only to see her go into a bathroom and go "damn! I'm not allowed to go in there! [i]it's against the rules![/i]" Allowing trasngender people into their bathroom of choice isn't going to cause rapists to say "haha! I've beat the system, I can now simply call myself a woman, and I will now be allowed into the forbidden room!!"
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