Man attacked for peacefully holding up a sign at Antifa protest [London] - General

[video]https://youtu.be/vsiFLt5GorU[/video] The sign says: The Right to Openly Discuss Ideas Must Be Defended Imagine believing that encouraging dialogue from different points of view to reach understanding and consensus is akin to Nazism and Fascism. What a bunch of fucking lunatics.

Didn't realize that being open minded was such a crime. Its like some people want to strictly enforce "love and tolerance"

[QUOTE=Vodkavia;51884714]I think at this point there's no going back or mitigating it, the world is going to have to weather this political meltdown and hope it comes out salvageable by the end and in my opinion we've not even seen the worst of it yet.[/QUOTE] I agree. People who believe we are just going to sail gracefully into the future with this current politics are sadly naive.

looks like only 1 person showed up for the anti fascism protest

God, I hate these stupid commie fucks. Pretty clear that most of the Antifascists never cracked open a book but instead tore the pages out and crammed it in their ears

when i see fucking idiots like these it makes my political alignment go from slightly center right to the top right corner fuck i want a helicopter

It's genuinely alarming the direction that these social movements are moving in. Empty headed people chanting meaningless catch phrases in the name of fighting "fascism", an idea that most of them probably couldn't accurately define if asked. This feels like an excerpt from a movie in a not-so-distant future, not a real event taking place in a civilized country.

Oh hey look, fascists calling the kettle black! Mad respect for this guy, this idea was some thing my dad stood by his entire career as a defense attorney, and as a religious law school teacher. There is a crucial difference between hearing some one state an opinion, and not [I]wanting[/I] to hear some one's opinion. You may not agree with it, but the minute you take his right of free speech away, you are also shooting yourself in the foot in the process. "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it."

Did anyone see where he was actually attacked and not just shouted at? [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] Honestly I don't think white supremacists should be given a platform to spread their ideas. Letting these people hold public talks feels like 21st century equivalent of burning a cross. Also these are just protesters no? [url]https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/22/art-gallery-criticised-over-neo-nazi-artwork-and-hosting-racist-speakers[/url] I feel pretty ashamed that an art gallery would support Neo-Nazis

AntiFa is the worst, literally the very thing they're against

[QUOTE=so;51885164]Did anyone see where he was actually attacked and not just shouted at? [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] Honestly I don't think white supremacists should be given a platform to spread their ideas. Letting these people hold public talks feels like 21st century equivalent of burning a cross. Also these are just protesters no? [url]https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/22/art-gallery-criticised-over-neo-nazi-artwork-and-hosting-racist-speakers[/url] I feel pretty ashamed that an art gallery would support Neo-Nazis[/QUOTE] Did you watch the video? Because it's very clear that he is repeatedly shoved, pulled, and grappled with for control of his sign. Who are you to decide whose ideas are allowed to be discussed? Who is anybody to decide such a thing?

[QUOTE=srobins;51885188]Did you watch the video? Because it's very clear that he is repeatedly shoved, pulled, and grappled with for control of his sign. Who are you to decide whose ideas are allowed to be discussed? Who is anybody to decide such a thing?[/QUOTE] I don't think any of the speakers mentioned in the article should hold public talks in anyone's community. I think their ideas are inherently violent. I believe in free speech, but supporting people like this is another thing entirely. He got shoved, but I was expecting an attack. [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] Would you want any of the people listed in that article speaking in your town?

[QUOTE=so;51885194]I don't think any of the speakers mentioned in the article should hold public talks in anyone's community. I think their ideas are inherently violent. I believe in free speech, but supporting people like this is another thing entirely. He got shoved, but I was expecting an attack.[/QUOTE] You can't simultaneously claim to believe in free speech if you're willing to contradict that belief to satisfy your negative emotions in the face of conflicting opinions. Being shoved and grappled with is absolutely an attack, whether or not you feel the word "attack" is semantically correct doesn't matter, he was attacked and treated completely inappropriately for a man who simply stood in defense of free speech.

[QUOTE=so;51885194] Would you want any of the people listed in that article speaking in your town?[/QUOTE] No, I wouldn't. But I live in a country, despite its problems, that allows anyone to speak their mind, no matter the topic. If Antifa throws punches first, I will stand by literal nazis, the ones that hate everything about me and my lifestyle, as it goes against what I view as freedom.

[QUOTE=srobins;51885205]You can't simultaneously claim to believe in free speech if you're willing to contradict that belief to satisfy your negative emotions in the face of conflicting opinions. Being shoved and grappled with is absolutely an attack, whether or not you feel the word "attack" is semantically correct doesn't matter, he was attacked and treated completely inappropriately for a man who simply stood in defense of free speech.[/QUOTE] I'm not referring to the guy with the sign I was referring to the speaker. Sucks sign guy got shoved, but I was skimming the video, and attacked is pretty sensationalist. I'm drawing a distinction between free speech, and hosting a white supremacist in your art gallery

[QUOTE=so;51885194]Would you want any of the people listed in that article speaking in your town?[/QUOTE] It doesn't really make a difference to me, honestly. If a bunch of white guys with inferiority complexes want to get together in a room and stroke each other off, its no skin off my nose. If I really cared enough to do something about it, I'd be more interested in having a discussion/debate and showing them to be the idiots they are in front of a big crowd of people. It seems like a much more effective way of defusing flawed ideologies than to turn them into a "forbidden fruit" by disallowing any and all discussion of a topic.

[QUOTE=so;51885194]I don't think any of the speakers mentioned in the article should hold public talks in anyone's community. I think their ideas are inherently violent. [B]I believe in free speech, but supporting people like this is another thing entirely.[/B] He got shoved, but I was expecting an attack. [editline]27th February 2017[/editline] Would you want any of the people listed in that article speaking in your town?[/QUOTE] allowing someone their freedom of speech isn't the same as supporting what they choose to express with it

[QUOTE=so;51885216]I'm not referring to the guy with the sign I was referring to the speaker. Sucks sign guy got shoved, but I was skimming the video, and attacked is pretty sensationalist. I'm drawing a distinction between free speech, and hosting a white supremacist in your art gallery[/QUOTE] You can draw that distinction in your own head if you want, but in the real world free speech and hosting white supremacists in art galleries is the same thing. Sorry!

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51885206]No, I wouldn't. But I live in a country, despite its problems, that allows anyone to speak their mind, no matter the topic. If Antifa throws punches first, [B]I will stand by literal nazis[/B], the ones that hate everything about me and my lifestyle, as it goes against what I view as freedom.[/QUOTE] Whoa boy

[QUOTE=TAU!;51885224]Whoa boy[/QUOTE] What? Is it not right to defend the rights of free speech?

[QUOTE=srobins;51885223]You can draw that distinction in your own head if you want, but in the real world free speech and hosting white supremacists in art galleries is the same thing. Sorry![/QUOTE] Man, if only Jews had debated better in Nazi Germany

Is it that sad that our nation has buckled under and made it okay to harm those who believe something different from you? What, do we run those with differing opinions out of town so they can band together and make a community all their own? Or do we show them what they think is wrong, embarrass them, make them feel squeamish to express such vicious views, and make them people who respect others.

[QUOTE=so;51885236]Man, if only Jews had debated better in Nazi Germany[/QUOTE] Can you explain to me how Hitler came to power, in your own words?

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51885229]What? Is it not right to defend the rights of free speech?[/QUOTE] I don't agree with blindly violent antifascists, and I definitely don't agree with nazis. If Antifas throw the first punch at Nazis, I'd rather get the hell out of there than automatically think I'm doing the right thing by standing with Nazis, as in a group of people that would want me destroyed as much as they would want the antifas destroyed. So, you can have fun with your "But free speech!" idea here.

[QUOTE=srobins;51885243]Can you explain to me how Hitler came to power, in your own words?[/QUOTE] And in a democracy if these ideas spread does that make them legitimate?

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51885238]Is it that sad that our nation has buckled under and made it okay to harm those who believe something different from you? What, do we run those with differing opinions out of town so they can band together and make a community all their own? Or do we show them what they think is wrong, embarrass them, make them feel squeamish to express such vicious views, and make them people who respect others.[/QUOTE] This is what Nazis sympathizers thought about possible US intervention in Europe when Germany was invading Poland. "Differing beliefs" are no longer strictly beliefs when those "beliefs" involve racial superiority and supporting genocide. Sure, we can try to understand these people and get them to understand how terrible their viewpoints are, as well as come to an understanding of [i]why[/i] they have those viewpoints, but one of the worst things we can do is allow them to have an open platform to spew their hate and feel equal in the sense that their "differing views" (i.e. hatred, genocide, etc etc) are equal to what the rest of the sane world knows and understands as equality.

[QUOTE=so;51885236]Man, if only Jews had debated better in Nazi Germany[/QUOTE] I feel that is an unfair comparison. Technology has changed. Back then there was no ability for the rest of the world to instantly see what someone says and collectively shit on it. The trouble is people are now overusing that ability and making this sort of thing meaningless. If a real racist party rose under actual racist pretenses, in the west, then it would get shut down quicker than you can say "Who's streets?". Every person should be allowed a platform, especially if they managed to secure it themselves with the organizer. Bad ideas will come up and be laughed down, good ideas won't. The trouble is, granted, that people are still very susceptible to rhetoric, but the ability for cross examination that the internet provides does mitigate its effect, to an extent.

[QUOTE=so;51885236]Man, if only Jews had debated better in Nazi Germany[/QUOTE] Good god in heaven, is this argument a dried up equine husk or what? What Nazi Germany was undergoing was a massive depression, being forced diplomatically into the corner, and having its very culture stripped away by the victorious powers of the Great War. The NSDAP themselves ran on waves of hate, fear and violence, but were a united force with a powerfully charming leader who played the fife and drum to their desires. True hate, true violence, and using a scapegoat to activate one of the most dangerous and threatening war machines the world has ever seen. His entire platform to being made chancellor was demands for "reclaiming territory", making Germany a world power, making their former enemies suffer, all the meanwhile pointing the finger at the Jew, the Gypsy, the Communist. The entire nation had seemingly descended into madness. What we see with a bald headed man screaming about how he hates the Jew, the Gypsy, the Communist, is nothing more than a desperate echo of a dead ideology. The spasms of the corpse of fascism itself. He can scream himself until he is red in the face, but because people know what he says, what he means, and how he acts... ...nobody will listen

Antifa are more similar to SA bullyboys from the 1930s then the actual people they intimidate and claim to be nazis. The irony is immense.

[QUOTE=TAU!;51885244]I don't agree with blindly violent antifascists, and I definitely don't agree with nazis. If Antifas throw the first punch at Nazis, I'd rather get the hell out of there than automatically think I'm doing the right thing by standing with Nazis, as in a group of people that would want me destroyed as much as they would want the antifas destroyed. So, you can have fun with your "But free speech!" idea here.[/QUOTE] i don't think "stand by" literally means he's gonna jump into an antifa vs nazi brawl, he's just saying if antifa attack nazis they're objectively in the wrong