In Defense of Breath of the Wild's Brittle Weapons - Arlo - General

[video]https://youtu.be/bCMDG51cf5w[/video] I get that people are partial to just loving this game because it's Zelda, but I really do dislike a lot of the counter opinions to this game from a lot of people. Some people are failing to see the differences between the way towers and exploration works in BotW and Far Cry or AC. It's not like a game that's being heralded as a masterpiece needs defending, but I think a lot of people, journos and consumers, are failing to understand a lot of other well designed elements of BotW.

and now my inventory is full of OP/special weapons that I keep thinking I should save for that special occasion and leaving only like 1-3 slots for trash regular use weapons :v:

How many spoilers are in this video? I didn't even arrive at the first titan yet, and i only collected like 3 memories, i'm afraid to watch it :v:

[QUOTE=DrogenViech;51945996]How many spoilers are in this video? I didn't even arrive at the first titan yet, and i only collected like 3 memories, i'm afraid to watch it :v:[/QUOTE] None

[QUOTE=DrogenViech;51945996]How many spoilers are in this video? I didn't even arrive at the first titan yet, and i only collected like 3 memories, i'm afraid to watch it :v:[/QUOTE] The most you get in spoilers is seeing some OP weapons on the quick menu briefly.

I already agreed the first time I saw BoTW gameplay. It adds variety to your playstyles, much like Far Cry 2's misunderstood weapon degradation mechanic that encourages you to buy your favorite guns new.

The combat seems a bit Dark Souls-y, or is it just the way it looks?

[QUOTE=Im Crimson;51946301]The combat seems a bit Dark Souls-y, or is it just the way it looks?[/QUOTE] unlike dark souls, attacking and dodging doesn't use up stamina. i think that doing a charge attack does tho.

They should add an option to fix weapons once you finish the main story or something, just so that you can have fun with a bunch of strong weapons without that worry and at the same time play through the main story as was intended.

i despise all forms of durability except for botw because botw basically is like "all ur shits gonna die in 5 hits anyway might as well enjoy it" tbh thats alot of BOTW, i normally hate alot of systems that the game has yet BOTW does those systems in a way that i dont hate them.

Reminds me of Dead Rising 2 more than anything else.

[QUOTE=shadow_oap;51946318]They should add an option to fix weapons once you finish the main story or something, just so that you can have fun with a bunch of strong weapons without that worry and at the same time play through the main story as was intended.[/QUOTE] Specific, plot-related weapons can break but get repaired for a price. The thing is that the better gear in the game can actually last a while before they break depending on how hard you stress them, but once it hits that badly damaged stage, it's going to break in a few more hits period.

[QUOTE=Im Crimson;51946301]The combat seems a bit Dark Souls-y, or is it just the way it looks?[/QUOTE] just looks like it. DaS is all about timing those Z-frames while BotW is all about making sure the hitboxes don't touch

without breakable weapons the game would be a cakewalk you can get very strong weapons very early into the game if you know what you're doing and know where to go

[QUOTE=Wii60;51946359]i despise all forms of durability except for botw because botw basically is like "all ur shits gonna die in 5 hits anyway might as well enjoy it" tbh thats alot of BOTW, i normally hate alot of systems that the game has yet BOTW does those systems in a way that i dont hate them.[/QUOTE] to be honest I enjoy durability as long as it isn't over the line, it adds another layer of balance to weapon design where you can have a really really powerful weapon but the player has to give it a lot of care to keep it in good enough shape to be usable that was part of why the alien blaster kind of sucked in fallout 4 (along with the new way crits work) because it was partially balanced by being fragile and hard to repair in 3 and NV

I didn't know Cookie Monster played video games.

The weapon durability system is basically played fast and loose. Your shit is going to break fast, but you're also going to be given new gear just as quickly, and if you start to hoard your equipment you'll find yourself very quickly drowning in new stuff. A new weapon is never more than a little smacking an enemy around away, particularly given that enemies drop whatever they're holding when they're knocked down half the time. The typical weapon durability system is "use your stuff carefully and save the strong stuff for only the toughest situations" because you don't get stuff very often, whereas here you're expected to go nuts and use your good stuff whenever the situation starts to get rough, which is very often.

[QUOTE=WaffleCopter;51945964]and now my inventory is full of OP/special weapons that I keep thinking I should save for that special occasion and leaving only like 1-3 slots for trash regular use weapons :v:[/QUOTE] Yeah, I've fallen so far down this pit and it took me until today to realize that I should just stop trying to micro-manage my inventory and use up everything I've got on whatever I want. I keep very carefully choosing which weapon to toss so I can pick up a new one (or not at all), but today I realized I'm carrying nine Royal Broadswords, three Royal Claymores, and seven Royal Bows on me. I really need to use this shit up already instead of lugging it around and refusing to use it "just in case". My policy this whole time has been to use only the weakest stuff I'm carrying until I see a major boss, but so far it's just caused me to be underpowered 99% of the time when I could've been unleashing all this strong stuff on everything.

Yeah, I also fall victim on hoarding strong weapons... until you fight stuff like Lynel, I show no mercy on those fuckers.

[QUOTE=DrogenViech;51945996]How many spoilers are in this video? I didn't even arrive at the first titan yet, and i only collected like 3 memories, i'm afraid to watch it :v:[/QUOTE] Your post literally has more spoilers, thanks :v:

I'd argue that I don't need a durability system to be forced to experiment and be creative with combat. When I get a Switch and BotW at some point it'll still be annoying for me, but at least it isnt egregious. The double damage on the last hit sounds fun though.

[QUOTE=Talvy;51946271]I already agreed the first time I saw BoTW gameplay. It adds variety to your playstyles, much like Far Cry 2's misunderstood weapon degradation mechanic that encourages you to buy your favorite guns new.[/QUOTE] The problem with Far Cry 2 is that the durability discourages experimentation. Why pick up new weapons off dead enemies to try out when they're going to jam every few seconds? It encourages the player to only use the weapons they bought and stick rigidly to the cycle of grab fresh weapons from shop, go do mission, trek back to shop, rinse and repeat. Maybe buy a new gun without trying it first once you save up some diamonds.

Any argument to be made about the Durability system falls flat for me. All it ended up doing for me was resulting me in skipping most encounters entirely, because the reward for beating one guy using 5 swords was usually just an additional sword thats value was worse than the swords I was currently holding. Its a shit system and I don't see much value in it. You could try using the runes instead, but if you're not near a metal box, good luck. Bombs are weak as fuck for some reason.

The system seems to be using the stick when a carrot would have been more effective (like making different kinds of weapons way more effective against certain enemies or having a better progression that encourages changing a lot).

I always like weapon degradation done right. It never fails to add depth and complexity to managing risk in combat as well as resources. My favourite example is the 1.13 mod for Jagged Alliance 2. There are four factors that determine a gun's chance to jam - Heat (Way too punishing by default, but the beauty of 1.13 is its configurability), Dirt, Condition and its innate chance (Which is minuscule, but varies). You can take steps to counteract each effect - Cleaning kits to remove dirt, mechanics with toolkits to repair condition (Back up to a certain threshold which falls as the gun takes more damage - but can be kept at 100% with regular maintenance), ensuring you're not over-taxing the weapons by firing them every turn, etc. In JA2's case, weapon degradation plays a big role in several of the game's mechanics by proxy - Supply, weight, resource & fund management, the mercs you hire/create and what skills they have, and makes any engagement that much more taxing or risky. It's a game/mod that adds further ways for the player to fuck up, and therefore further ways for the player to be rewarded - Diligence in preparation (Recruiting mechanics, buying/finding toolkits, cleaning kits, the choice of weapon its self) and taking preventative measures (Taking time for mechanics to repair, making sure the mercs' guns are clean after each engagement, adding weight to the choice of which route to take [each "environment" factors in to dirt accumulation differently]), and above all, the player's ability to adapt and overcome when circumstance just says "no" and your dudes find themselves clicking their guns at the enemy. Now, being a turn-based tactics game with a metagame "strategy" layer, JA2/1.13 can afford this level of depth. However, this reward system is present in all games that feature weapon degradation to one degree or another.

There's also one thing to take into account with Breath of the Wild; treasure chests. Most treasure chests in the game world contain materials, rupees, or other items, but Shrines and certain areas instead reward you with weapons, and in some cases [i]really[/i] good weapons or at least fairly unique ones compared to what you find on enemies usually (though thanks to the enemy scaling, the further in the game you go the more likely enemies start packing some decent weapons on their own). But while you can redo Shrines, nothing in Breath of the Wild brings treasure chests back. So if you're stupid with those unique chest items, they're lost for good and you'll have to hope you can get another copy of that weapon elsewhere. In a way this means players will often hoard treasure chest items and try to avoid breaking them, I admit i've still got a couple i've tried to avoid losing. But it also means that some time eventually, you'll probably have to break out the big guns when the nastier enemies attack so you can't really overly rely on them either.

[QUOTE=sgman91;51947686](like making different kinds of weapons way more effective against certain enemies or having a better progression that encourages changing a lot).[/QUOTE] While the enemy variety isn't that large, certain weapon properties are more effective on certain enemies. Spears are fast and long, and work well against lizalfos and single targets. Hammers do a ton of damage to rock enemies. And then there's the opposite elemental attack, but it really just boils down to ice and fire.

[QUOTE=Tetsmega;51947933]And then there's the opposite elemental attack, but it really just boils down to ice and fire.[/QUOTE] Because everything with Electricity in this game is pure evil incarnate and don't give a shit for your elemental weaknesses.

Personally I don't mind the intention. I wouldn't have used most of the weapons if that were the case. I just wish all the weapons lasted a little bit longer. I feel like they all break too fast with how powerful enemies get late game. I don't think having to use one weapon on one enemies before having to switch to a new one is a nice feeling. And personal nitpick I wish there was at least a durable plain sword. I don't like having to get a flashy royal sword for durability when I'm content and happy with a Soldiers Sword

i just wish there was a way to drop items from within the quick-select menu. sure you can equip a weapon and then throw it, but it still takes up more time than if there was a "drop" button in the quick-select menu. also there's no way to throw bows and shields.