Afghanistan President refuses to sign security deal with the US, American troops may have to be with - Polidicks

[IMG]http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20131126&t=2&i=815096055&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=378&r=CBRE9AP09E700[/IMG] [I]A member of the Loya Jirga, grand council, leaves on the last day of the Loya Jirga, in Kabul November 24, 2013.[/I] [I]CREDIT: REUTERS/OMAR SOBHANI[/I] [QUOTE][B](Reuters) - Afghanistan's President Hamid Karzai has refused to sign a security deal with the United States, the White House said, opening up the prospect of a complete withdrawal of U.S. troops from the strife-torn nation next year.[/B] Karzai told U.S. National Security Advisor Susan Rice in Kabul on Monday that the United States must put an immediate end to military raids on Afghan homes and demonstrate its commitment to peace talks before he would sign a bilateral security pact, Karzai's spokesman said.[/QUOTE] [URL]http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/26/us-afghanistan-usa-idUSBRE9AP03J20131126[/URL]

good

Deuces Afghanistan, you will be crawling back to us soon begging for help. Too bad so sad.

[QUOTE=SKEEA;42983820]Deuces Afghanistan, you will be crawling back to us soon begging for help. Too bad so sad.[/QUOTE] I'm interested, please elaborate.

[QUOTE=Binladen34;42983823]I'm interested, please elaborate.[/QUOTE] united states occupation > flogged by taliban insurgents for not covering your face in public [editline]banana[/editline] see [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1328507[/url]

Not sure how to feel about this

[QUOTE=Explosions;42983805]good[/QUOTE] As much as people like to use the "they're foreign, so it doesn't matter if they get hurt" excuse, if the US completely pulls out of Afghanistan it's only going to cause more violence and instability in the region and further inhibit any progress being made.

At least we tried.

[QUOTE=Apache249;42983924]At least we tried.[/QUOTE] You said that in Vietnam too. All you got out of it was PTSD. Didn't do much better this time around.

[QUOTE=Binladen34;42983823]I'm interested, please elaborate.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.vice.com/vice-news/this-is-what-winning-looks-like-part-1[/url]

[QUOTE=pentium;42983935]You said that in Vietnam too. All you got out of it was PTSD. Didn't do much better this time around.[/QUOTE] I'd say we did better this round, I mean Afghanistan isn't a communist country. That has to count for something.

I'd rather have some foreigner with a gun walking around than having my hand cut off for stealing to sate hunger or something. But I don't live there so I don't know.

Hope women get school while they still can.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;42983976]I'd say we did better this round, I mean Afghanistan isn't a communist country. That has to count for something.[/QUOTE] We still didn't really win. Several years of intense fighting was defeated by another half decade of IED's and suicide bombings. A lot of the things we tried to remove crept back into daily routine and well it still isn't all that safe for women to go to school for example. The Taliban fled into neighboring countries until most of the shitstorm blew over. From Karzai's perspective we never made any solid accomplishments. We more or less pushed the country back 20 years so what the hell would be the point of keeping troops around?

[QUOTE=pentium;42984033]We still didn't really win. Several years of intense fighting was defeated by another half decade of IED's and suicide bombings. A lot of the things we tried to remove crept back into daily routine and well it still isn't all that safe for women to go to school for example. The Taliban fled into neighboring countries until most of the shitstorm blew over. From Karzai's perspective we never made any solid accomplishments. We more or less pushed the country back 20 years so what the hell would be the point of keeping troops around?[/QUOTE] What does "defeated" mean? The Taliban is completely destroyed in Afghanistan. A once powerful and extremely influential organization that nearly ran the entire country is complete shattered. The only remnants are based in Pakistan, which is why there are so many drone strikes there. But to claim that "we still didn't really win" necessitates that you look at the goals of the invasion: the removal of the Taliban and the revealing of their al-Qaeda associates. Both goals have been accomplished with extreme efficiency. The rest has been nothing but training the Afghan army and stopping militants from entering from Pakistan.

I didn't realize we had their permission to be there in the first place, or was that Iraq?

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;42983913]As much as people like to use the "they're foreign, so it doesn't matter if they get hurt" excuse, if the US completely pulls out of Afghanistan it's only going to cause more violence and instability in the region and further inhibit any progress being made.[/QUOTE] we havent exactly done much in terms of progession afaik id rather have the soldiers out of there and let them deal with themselves on their own really shouldnt be our problem

[QUOTE=Death_God;42984070]we havent exactly done much in terms of progession afaik id rather have the soldiers out of there and let them deal with themselves on their own really shouldnt be our problem[/QUOTE] The problem with that is that we were supposed to stay and fix their problems, but if they don't want us anymore, I say good riddance.

[QUOTE=Explosions;42984056]What does "defeated" mean? The Taliban is completely destroyed in Afghanistan. A once powerful and extremely influential organization that nearly ran the entire country is complete shattered. The only remnants are based in Pakistan, which is why there are so many drone strikes there.[/QUOTE] Time will tell. It seems like insurgents could easily sweep away the current Afghan army.

[QUOTE=Dr.C;42984062]I didn't realize we had their permission to be there in the first place, or was that Iraq?[/QUOTE] USA went in looking for Bin Laden and the lack of a governing body let them do what they needed to find him. After that they hung around mainly to rebuild and maintain stability, the latter of which did not really happen.

[QUOTE=Explosions;42984056]What does "defeated" mean? The Taliban is completely destroyed in Afghanistan. A once powerful and extremely influential organization that nearly ran the entire country is complete shattered. The only remnants are based in Pakistan, which is why there are so many drone strikes there. But to claim that "we still didn't really win" necessitates that you look at the goals of the invasion: the removal of the Taliban and the revealing of their al-Qaeda associates. Both goals have been accomplished with extreme efficiency. The rest has been nothing but training the Afghan army and stopping militants from entering from Pakistan.[/QUOTE] They will spring up faster than you can believe when we leave. Afghan Security is completely useless because of their lack of focus, outdated equipment, susceptibility to bribery, and their ties with the exact people they are fighting.

[QUOTE=pentium;42984080]USA went in looking for Bin Laden and the lack of a governing body let them do what they needed to find him. After that they hung around mainly to rebuild and maintain stability, the latter of which did not really happen.[/QUOTE] False. Afghanistan is more stable now that it has been since the fall of the communist government. Before the U.S. invasion, there had been a civil war raging in the country for over 10 years. Now, there is a real government that controls all areas of the nation. The only resistance is sporadic insurgent groups who may or may not be organized or united by a common cause. [editline]26th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=G3rman;42984101]They will spring up faster than you can believe when we leave. Afghan Security is completely useless because of their lack of focus, outdated equipment, susceptibility to bribery, and their ties with the exact people they are fighting.[/QUOTE] Bold claims.

[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;42983976]I'd say we did better this round, I mean Afghanistan isn't a communist country. That has to count for something.[/QUOTE] Yeah, Vietnam isn't that bad of a country at all. Though it is lacking in civil liberties as most of the modern communist governments are, its people have a relatively stable, healthy lifestyle. Its nothing like Afghanistan who's government can't even control half the country. [editline]26th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Explosions;42984103]False. Afghanistan is more stable now that it has been since the fall of the communist government. Before the U.S. invasion, there had been a civil war raging in the country for over 10 years. Now, there is a real government that controls all areas of the nation. The only resistance is sporadic insurgent groups who may or may not be organized or united by a common cause.[/QUOTE] It seems as though you've been fed a lot of freedom lately. The documentaries I've seen on the conflict are much less optimistic.

[QUOTE=G3rman;42984109]It seems as though you've been fed a lot of freedom lately.[/quote] omg dude what a snipe you got me [quote]The documentaries I've seen on the conflict are much less optimistic.[/QUOTE] Yes I too have seen the Vice video. A single investigative report on one company of soldiers is not a substantive authority on the subject. If you look at the trends throughout the war, you can see the real story. The ANA is becoming more and more independent, and in recent years they have begun conducting operations almost entirely alone. Coalition forces mostly play an advising role during operations. Also, I'm not sure where you got this [quote]Its nothing like Afghanistan who's government can't even control half the country.[/quote] from. It's completely wrong.

Ok! You have fun with the anarchists, al-qaeda operatives and other assorted security issues that your police force clearly cannot cope with. Our people have been getting increasingly fed up with us being in your country anyway, so we're more than happy to leave. Good luck and have fun!

Just get our Diggers out of there for Christ sake

I always wonder what will happen to a huge portion of US armed forces personnel once cuts are made. IF cuts are made. Where will they go?

[QUOTE=Explosions;42984056]What does "defeated" mean? The Taliban is completely destroyed in Afghanistan. A once powerful and extremely influential organization that nearly ran the entire country is complete shattered. The only remnants are based in Pakistan, which is why there are so many drone strikes there. But to claim that "we still didn't really win" necessitates that you look at the goals of the invasion: the removal of the Taliban and the revealing of their al-Qaeda associates. Both goals have been accomplished with extreme efficiency. The rest has been nothing but training the Afghan army and stopping militants from entering from Pakistan.[/QUOTE] They will be back in full power within 10 years. You accomplished nothing and thousands of people died for no reason.

If they need security, then they can and should apply for UN peacekeeping forces. The job of protecting the world should not come to fall to one nation, especially not one which abuses its position as global hegemon.

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;42985611]They will be back in full power within 10 years. You accomplished nothing and thousands of people died for no reason.[/QUOTE] Probably still less deaths than there would have been if they'd gone unchallenged. Still a money sink though, and our own were some of the victims.