Trump's First Counterterrorism Operation: At Least 15 Women and Children Dead / One US Commando - Polidicks

[t]http://blogs.ft.com/photo-diary/files/2016/09/PhotoDiary_Yemen.jpg[/t] [I]Anti-US Graffiti in Sana, Yemen.[/I] [quote=The New York Times] [B]One American commando was killed and three others were wounded[/B] in a fierce firefight early Sunday with Qaeda militants in central Yemen, the military said on Sunday. It was the first counterterrorism operation authorized by President Trump since he took office, and [B]the commando was the first United States service member to die in the yearslong shadow war against Al Qaeda’s Yemen affiliate.[/B] Members of the Navy’s SEAL Team 6 carried out the surprise dawn attack, and the military said that [B]about 14 Qaeda fighters were killed[/B] during a nearly hourlong battle. A Qaeda leader — a brother-in-law of Anwar al-Awlaki, the American-born cleric and top Qaeda leader in Yemen, who died in a drone strike in 2011 — was believed to have been killed. [B]After initially denying that there were any civilian casualties, American officials said they were assessing reports that women and children had died in the attack.[/B] The military’s Joint Special Operations Command had been planning the mission for months, according to three senior American officials. [B]Obama administration aides had deliberated extensively over the proposed operation, weighing the value of any information that might be recovered against the risk to the Special Operations forces plunging into hostile territory. But administration officials ultimately opted to hand the decision on the mission to their successors. [/B] [B]Mr. Trump, who has vowed to increase pressure on militant groups worldwide, was quickly persuaded that the rewards were worth the gamble, and he authorized the mission last week,[/B] military officials said. Commandos waited for a moonless evening on Saturday to exploit their advantage of fighting at night. (...) In a statement on Sunday, Mr. Trump called the raid “successful” and said that it had captured “important intelligence that will assist the U.S. in preventing terrorism against its citizens and people around the world.” He also lamented the loss of the American service member “in our fight against the evil of radical Islamic terrorism.” (...) Because Mr. Trump had been explicit about his intention to ask for the review to accelerate the fight against the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL, American military planners had begun drafting classified options to present to the new commander in chief. Some of those options, like pushing more authority to conduct strikes to commanders in the field or [B]loosening restrictions designed to limit the risk to civilians, could also be applied to attacks against Qaeda fighters and Islamic State insurgents. [/B] There were no immediate indications that the rules of engagement had been loosened for the mission in Yemen, military officials said. The Central Command’s statement did not elaborate on details of the raid or identify the commando who was killed. (...) A Yemeni government official in Bayda Province said the targeted buildings belonged to the Dhahab family, which is known for its ties to Al Qaeda. Two male members of the family have been killed in drone strikes over the past two years. [B]The Yemeni official said that at least eight women and seven children, ages 3 to 13, had been killed in the raid.[/B] Qaeda supporters said that Mr. Awlaki’s young daughter was among the dead and denied that any senior Qaeda leaders had been killed, according to the SITE Intelligence Group, which monitors extremist communications. [B]Faisal Mohamed, a Bayda official whose two sons witnessed the attack, said it severely damaged a school, a health facility and a mosque. [/B] Source: [URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/29/world/middleeast/american-commando-killed-in-yemen-in-trumps-first-counterterror-operation.html"]The New York Times[/URL] Additional source: [URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-yemen-qaeda-idUSKBN15D08J"]Reuters[/URL] [/quote] [quote= Donald J. Trump] "The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. They care about their lives, don't kid yourself. When they say they don't care about their lives, you have to take out their families." - [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1eXRXL0nkk] Video of quote[/url][/quote]

This went well, another step towards #MAGA! :goodjob: What a fucking horrible piece of shit. How would he like it if someone killed his wife, his children, his family?

Who was it who was trying to use the drone program as an argument for why complaining about trump and not Obama was a double standard again?

"The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. They care about their lives, don't kid yourself. When they say they don't care about their lives, you have to take out their families." Another promise fulfilled, bless us.

[url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1550553[/url] late

The implication that Donald Trump is personally responsible for the civilian casualties and the dead SEAL is laughable, there were numerous operations with results just like these under every president the last 30 years. There is an enormous amount of shit Trump is directly responsible for but the results of this operation is not one of them, and implying it is is just being intellectualy dishonest and weakening the case against trump.

[QUOTE=moffe;51751182]The implication that Donald Trump is personally responsible for the civilian casualties and the dead SEAL is laughable, there were numerous operations with results just like these under every president the last 30 years. There is an enormous amount of shit Trump is directly responsible for but the results of this operation is not one of them, and implying it is is just being intellectualy dishonest and weakening the case against trump.[/QUOTE] The president is always personally responsible. They're the one who issues the orders...

[QUOTE=Mallow234;51751181][URL]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1550553[/URL] late[/QUOTE] Content of that thread had nothing about the civilian casualties. I didn't realize parts of the thread were from the same article. My bad mods.

I understand people's frustration with Trump, but COME ON, this happens all the time. Its a WAR, there is bad Intel sometimes and mistakes happen. They went in with the RIGHT justification. Stop blaming everything on Trump. Need I remind you of the many, MANY innocent people killed under Obama. It is sickening that your are politicizing this.

So shit like this happend with other presidents before, but now that it happens under Trump it suddenly matters and the media is making a huge shitstorm about it?

[QUOTE=Redcoat893;51751164]This went well, another step towards #MAGA! :goodjob: What a fucking horrible piece of shit. How would he like it if someone killed his wife, his children, his family?[/QUOTE] This is just retarded. Do you not understand how military ops can go south?

yeah I'm sure it's as simple as trump saying "make sure to shoot the women and children". The fact is no one really knows what happened. The insurgents could have been using human shields for all you know. Give the seals some credit.

Would this raid not have been ordered under Obama's call? I find it hard to believe that it was decided by Trump - he couldnt have moved that quickly?

He was convinced that the risks were worth it. Trump is a fucking idiot and I hope he steps on legos, but I won't keep him alone responsible for this. There are others more worthy of that honor.

[QUOTE=CarnolfMeatla;51751195]So shit like this happend with other presidents before, but now that it happens under Trump it suddenly matters and the media is making a huge shitstorm about it?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=moffe;51751182]There is an enormous amount of shit Trump is directly responsible for but the results of this operation is not one of them, and implying it is is just being intellectualy dishonest and weakening the case against trump.[/QUOTE] Probably because those presidents didn't say we should be killing civilians then follow through on that in their first approved operation. It's not like Trump told Seals to shoot civilians (not that they would anyway), but he approved the op. [QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51751205]Would this raid not have been ordered under Obama's call? I find it hard to believe that it was decided by Trump - he couldnt have moved that quickly?[/QUOTE] In the article sections I posted it specifically says this was in planning for [I]months [/I]and the Obama administration didn't go through with it because it was very high-risk for an uncertain gain.

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51751205]Would this raid not have been ordered under Obama's call? I find it hard to believe that it was decided by Trump - he couldnt have moved that quickly?[/QUOTE] he can, easily

I'm not a fan of Trump by any means, but personally pinning this on him is pretty fucking retarded considering that no conflict has ever been squeaky clean in regards to zero collateral damage. Civilians died under Bush, civilians died under Obama, it's not rocket science.

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;51751212]he can, easily[/QUOTE] Is there proof that its his OP though? Would the military itself not be more responsible for this?

[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51751213]I'm not a fan of Trump by any means, but personally pinning this on him is pretty fucking retarded considering that no conflict has ever been squeaky clean in regards to zero collateral damage. Civilians died under Bush, civilians died under Obama, it's not rocket science.[/QUOTE] i don't think there has been any conflict in modern times where civilians did not suffer the most out of everyone involved

I hate trump as much as the next guy, but this kind of news is exactly the kind of stuff he can us to turn people against the media. Unless he himself pulled the trigger or said to these soldiers "yeah go there and just spray your guns wildly." No good will come of this kind of reporting

You can't blame this on the president

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51751218]Is there proof that its his OP though? Would the military itself not be more responsible for this?[/QUOTE] It's in the article, quoted in the OP. [quote]Mr. Trump, who has vowed to increase pressure on militant groups worldwide, was quickly persuaded that the rewards were worth the gamble, and he authorized the mission last week, military officials said. Commandos waited for a moonless evening on Saturday to exploit their advantage of fighting at night.[/quote] The president is commander in chief of the military. [editline]30th January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=_Maverick_;51751243]I hate trump as much as the next guy, but this kind of news is exactly the kind of stuff he can us to turn people against the media. Unless he himself pulled the trigger or said to these soldiers "yeah go there and just spray your guns wildly." No good will come of this kind of reporting[/QUOTE] The president is responsible for directing military efforts and should be held accountable for missions he gives the green light to.

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;51751188]The president is always personally responsible. They're the one who issues the orders...[/QUOTE] Yea, Trump sat down and meticulously planned out this operation. He is PERSONALLY responsible for every death and dollar of damage thats caused by troops that he DIRECTLY commands. Or he just signs off on the operation after he's been briefed on it.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51751271] Or he just signs off on the operation after he's been briefed on it.[/QUOTE] He was briefed on an operation previously deemed too risky, then approved it, and we're not supposed to place any amount blame on him?

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51751271]Yea, Trump sat down and meticulously planned out this operation. He is PERSONALLY responsible for every death and dollar of damage thats caused by troops that he DIRECTLY commands. Or he just signs off on the operation after he's been briefed on it.[/QUOTE] Yeah based on your description how could he have any involvement at all It's not like he was briefed and made a choice.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51751271]Yea, Trump sat down and meticulously planned out this operation. He is PERSONALLY responsible for every death and dollar of damage thats caused by troops that he DIRECTLY commands. Or he just signs off on the operation after he's been briefed on it.[/QUOTE] do you understand the responsibilities as commander in chief

[QUOTE=RocketSnail;51751256]You can't blame this on the president[/QUOTE] Actually I can The Obama administration sat on it for months because of how high risk it was. I imagine Trump ordering it because of his heavy handed get things done attitude

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51751280]Yeah based on your description how could he have any involvement at all It's not like he was briefed and made a choice.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Super Muffin;51751277]He was briefed on an operation previously deemed too risky, then approved it, and we're not supposed to place any amount blame on him?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=DOG-GY;51751287]do you understand the responsibilities as commander in chief[/QUOTE] It says in the article that he was persuaded into authorizing the operation. Not all the blame lies on him. Someone still brought it too his desk and convinced him to sign off on it. I can appreciate criticizing Trump all day long, but at least focus on legitimate shit. Every president has signed off on an operation that has gone wrong or was too risky to justify itself. For gods sake, Obama signed off on the Bin Laden assassination mission and we lost a prototype/highly-secret helicopter in the operation.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;51751301]It says in the article that he was persuaded into authorizing the operation. Not all the blame lies on him. Someone still brought it too his desk and convinced him to sign off on it. I can appreciate criticizing Trump all day long, but at least focus on legitimate shit. Every president has signed off on an operation that has gone wrong or was too risky to justify itself. For gods sake, Obama signed off on the Bin Laden assassination mission and we lost a prototype/highly-secret helicopter in the operation.[/QUOTE] So he's absolved because he was mindlessly persuaded? I never said anything about whether or not previous operations were justified. Just that it's their responsibility and that they should be held accountable.

Less a Trump issue and more an USA issue.